Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Matsuo Basho

AFL Coaches IQ Index

Recommended Posts

Having listened to all 18 coaches speak or give interviews on multiple occasions it has struck me that some are obviously blessed with greater oratory skills and depth and breadth of intelligence than others. I’m not talking about mere footy industry lingo intelligence (which is a given) but real world intelligence and an ability to really engage and surprise in the way they communicate. Whether through humour, anecdote, analysis or reflection, they just show a lateral mindedness which fascinates beyond the mere regurgitation of stats, KPI’s and let’s call it “whiteboard word play”. 

I’m wondering if other ‘Landers would agree or disagree with me on this, or with my AFL Coach IQ Index below which ranks the eighteen coaches as I view them on my personal gut feel estimation of their combined general/football/emotional/‘street’ intelligence. The obvious question following on from this of course is - “does it really matter in that coach/clubs’s quest for a premiership and if so why or why not?”.

Here’s my index:

1. Collingwood - Nathan Buckley

2. Hawthorn - Alistair Clarkson

3.  Geelong - Chris Scott

4. Fremantle - Ross Lyon

5. Port Adelaide - Ken Hinkley

6. West Coast - Adam Simpson

7. Richmond - Damian Hardwick 

8. Sydney - John Longmire 

9. Western Bulldogs - Luke Beveridge 

10. Brisbane Lions - Chris Fagan

11. Essendon - John Worsfold 

12. Adelaide - Don Pyke

13. GWS - Leon Cameron

14. Melbourne - Simon Goodwin

15. St Kilda - Alan Richardson 

16. Gold Coast - Stewart Dew 

Carlton, North - N/A

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If intelligence is solely linked to our performance in front of a camera primarily interviews and press conferences then we must all be pretty [censored] stupid. 

Unless you've sat down and had an open one on one chat with each coach there's really no way to know how intelligent any of them are. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Having listened to all 18 coaches speak or give interviews on multiple occasions it has struck me that some are obviously blessed with greater oratory skills and depth and breadth of intelligence than others. I’m not talking about mere footy industry lingo intelligence (which is a given) but real world intelligence and an ability to really engage and surprise in the way they communicate. Whether through humour, anecdote, analysis or reflection, they just show a lateral mindedness which fascinates beyond the mere regurgitation of stats, KPI’s and let’s call it “whiteboard word play”. 

I’m wondering if other ‘Landers would agree or disagree with me on this, or with my AFL Coach IQ Index below which ranks the eighteen coaches as I view them on my personal gut feel estimation of their combined general/football/emotional/‘street’ intelligence. The obvious question following on from this of course is - “does it really matter in that coach/clubs’s quest for a premiership and if so why or why not?”.

Here’s my index:

1. Collingwood - Nathan Buckley

2. Hawthorn - Alistair Clarkson

3.  Geelong - Chris Scott

4. Fremantle - Ross Lyon

5. Port Adelaide - Ken Hinkley

6. West Coast - Adam Simpson

7. Richmond - Damian Hardwick 

8. Sydney - John Longmire 

9. Western Bulldogs - Luke Beveridge 

10. Brisbane Lions - Chris Fagan

11. Essendon - John Worsfold 

12. Adelaide - Don Pyke

13. GWS - Leon Cameron

14. Melbourne - Simon Goodwin

15. St Kilda - Alan Richardson 

16. Gold Coast - Stewart Dew 

Carlton, North - N/A

Re Don Pyke, did him staring at his players Tony Abbot style when we smashed them last year have any weighting and if so ehat was its impact? 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, chookrat said:

Re Don Pyke, did him staring at his players Tony Abbot style when we smashed them last year have any weighting and if so ehat was its impact? 

Rankings 12 - 16 were hard to separate no doubt. Pykey’s mad stare did convey a certain willingness to ‘get loose’. A bit of Jedi mind trickery if you will. Extra point loading for that.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Having listened to all 18 coaches speak or give interviews on multiple occasions it has struck me that some are obviously blessed with greater oratory skills and depth and breadth of intelligence than others. I’m not talking about mere footy industry lingo intelligence (which is a given) but real world intelligence and an ability to really engage and surprise in the way they communicate. Whether through humour, anecdote, analysis or reflection, they just show a lateral mindedness which fascinates beyond the mere regurgitation of stats, KPI’s and let’s call it “whiteboard word play”. 

I’m wondering if other ‘Landers would agree or disagree with me on this, or with my AFL Coach IQ Index below which ranks the eighteen coaches as I view them on my personal gut feel estimation of their combined general/football/emotional/‘street’ intelligence. The obvious question following on from this of course is - “does it really matter in that coach/clubs’s quest for a premiership and if so why or why not?”.

Here’s my index:

1. Collingwood - Nathan Buckley

2. Hawthorn - Alistair Clarkson

3.  Geelong - Chris Scott

4. Fremantle - Ross Lyon

5. Port Adelaide - Ken Hinkley

6. West Coast - Adam Simpson

7. Richmond - Damian Hardwick 

8. Sydney - John Longmire 

9. Western Bulldogs - Luke Beveridge 

10. Brisbane Lions - Chris Fagan

11. Essendon - John Worsfold 

12. Adelaide - Don Pyke

13. GWS - Leon Cameron

14. Melbourne - Simon Goodwin

15. St Kilda - Alan Richardson 

16. Gold Coast - Stewart Dew 

Carlton, North - N/A

There are two types of people in this world @Matsuo Basho those that can infer things from incomplete data and...

Well considering the last 3 premierships have come from your positions of 6, 7 and 9, I'd suggest, you either don't want to have too much IQ or too little IQ as judged by some bloke... therefore the inference that it is relevant to obtaining a premiership is that it a) is, b) is not  c) choose your own adventure.

Edited by Engorged Onion
  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Shocked 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

There are two types of people in this world @Matsuo Basho those that can infer things from incomplete data and...

Well considering the last 3 premierships have come from your positions of 6, 7 and 9, I'd suggest, you either don't want to have too much IQ or too little IQ as judged by some bloke... therefore the inference that it is relevant to obtaining a premiership is that it a) is, b) is not  c) choose your own adventure.

I'm going to look at it as a hurdle requirement; you need to pass a certain level but beyond that it becomes less important.

I must say, it is weird not just seeing Buckley at the top of Matsuo's list, but realising that I'd probably agree. If I had to pick an AFL coach for a long session of free-ranging discussion of the world, it would probably be ol' Nate.

I'm on the cusp of not having any real problem with Collingwood (except a segment of their supporters), soon I'll be calling the Queen's Birthday game a 'jolly good show against a worthy rival'. Scary times.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

There are two types of people in this world @Matsuo Basho those that can infer things from incomplete data and...

Well considering the last 3 premierships have come from your positions of 6, 7 and 9, I'd suggest, you either don't want to have too much IQ or too little IQ as judged by some bloke... therefore the inference that it is relevant to obtaining a premiership is that it a) is, b) is not  c) choose your own adventure.

I’ve always divided the world into two types of people as well EO. Pedestrians that acknowledge with a quick nod or wave the vehicle and driver that comes to a courteous stop at a zebra crossing ... and the blinkered automatons who don’t. 

Also dogs. People who don’t go gaga over a happy dog with a wagging tail are a bit strange IMO.

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not too sure when it comes to coaches, but surely we'd be anchored near the bottom if we're measuring playing list IQ levels.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, chookrat said:

Re Don Pyke, did him staring at his players Tony Abbot style when we smashed them last year have any weighting and if so ehat was its impact? 

The impact is that neither Tony or Don are in line for coaching Manly Warringah.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is almost impossible to know the answer to this as it all happens behind closed doors.  Roos seemed like the most boring bloke ever when he was coach but he clearly had a lot of good ideas and could lead and motivate

end results prove IQ.  So Clarkson on top by a straight.

I like Simon's drive and intensity. he clearly has some qualities that Roos/PJ identified and he took us to a prelim last year.  let's see how he goes over the next few years and hopefully longer

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

The obvious question following on from this of course is -

Is there a limit to your vanity?

To be able to differentiate at the top of the list you'd need to have a higher IQ than all of them.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Briefly analysing my index, breaking it up into “top 8 ranked coaches” and “bottom 8 ranked coaches” you’ll find that in the eight seasons since 2011:

A) 7 of the “top 8” coached flags. Only 1 from the “bottom 8” (Beveridge).

B) 6 of the “top 8” coached their side to runner up in the GF. Only 1 from the “bottom 8” (Pyke).

C) 4 of the “bottom 8” have gotten their sides into preliminary finals as opposed to all eight of the “top 8” coaches. 

Telling? Rubbery figures? Pseudo-intellectual dreck? 

Over to you folks.

Edited by Matsuo Basho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Is there a limit to your vanity?

To be able to differentiate at the top of the list you'd need to have a higher IQ than all of them.

Anyone who would show up with manboobs and a beergut to give others directives on discipline and pushing themselves has got to be suspect. So I’ve at least got Stewie “Mountain” Dew covered.

Im with LittleGoffy on this one. Bucks would be a great fireside chat over Barossa red. Clarko and the smarter Scott brother, yeah. Rossy Lyon might start to bore me after 45 minutes. Kenny Hinkley and Lukey Beveridge the surprise packets, really coming into their own later in the evening when proceedings move to the officer’s bunker for a Glenfiddich single malt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bevo was a tax man at Austrac. 

Don Pyke I believe ran a mining company. 

Clarko was a PE teacher. Not usually a position that requires great intelligence.

Buckley has refined media skills from his playing and media days but took years to use that to his advantage. 

Hardwick has a great feel for his players. But his coaching career changed dramatically when Balme - a failed coach - gave him great support.

Longmire I sense isn’t all that clever but he has excellent strength of character.

There’s never a perfect coach, there’s plenty of ways to do it. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In regards to Goodwin:

- High work ethic 

- Strong bond with players 

- Willing to try new plans and adapt far more than a lot of AFL coaches 

- keeps calm in the coaches box and media 

I get the feeling he has a few blindspots with things he doesn’t know. The management of injuries fits there. 

And I think he could go to another level if he showed more of his personality at times. I get why coaches are guarded but I’d like to see him open up. 

Both of those faults can easily improve with experience and support around him. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

In regards to Goodwin:

- High work ethic 

- Strong bond with players 

- Willing to try new plans and adapt far more than a lot of AFL coaches 

- keeps calm in the coaches box and media 

I get the feeling he has a few blindspots with things he doesn’t know. The management of injuries fits there. 

And I think he could go to another level if he showed more of his personality at times. I get why coaches are guarded but I’d like to see him open up. 

Both of those faults can easily improve with experience and support around him. 

Willing to try new plans and adapt far more than a lot of AFL coaches . . . 

Surely you're pulling my leg DeeSpencer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Having listened to all 18 coaches speak or give interviews on multiple occasions it has struck me that some are obviously blessed with greater oratory skills and depth and breadth of intelligence than others. I’m not talking about mere footy industry lingo intelligence (which is a given) but real world intelligence and an ability to really engage and surprise in the way they communicate. Whether through humour, anecdote, analysis or reflection, they just show a lateral mindedness which fascinates beyond the mere regurgitation of stats, KPI’s and let’s call it “whiteboard word play”. 

I’m wondering if other ‘Landers would agree or disagree with me on this, or with my AFL Coach IQ Index below which ranks the eighteen coaches as I view them on my personal gut feel estimation of their combined general/football/emotional/‘street’ intelligence. The obvious question following on from this of course is - “does it really matter in that coach/clubs’s quest for a premiership and if so why or why not?”.

Here’s my index:

1. Collingwood - Nathan Buckley

2. Hawthorn - Alistair Clarkson

3.  Geelong - Chris Scott

4. Fremantle - Ross Lyon

5. Port Adelaide - Ken Hinkley

6. West Coast - Adam Simpson

7. Richmond - Damian Hardwick 

8. Sydney - John Longmire 

9. Western Bulldogs - Luke Beveridge 

10. Brisbane Lions - Chris Fagan

11. Essendon - John Worsfold 

12. Adelaide - Don Pyke

13. GWS - Leon Cameron

14. Melbourne - Simon Goodwin

15. St Kilda - Alan Richardson 

16. Gold Coast - Stewart Dew 

Carlton, North - N/A

Hinkley at 5? Have i missed something here?

Edited by Win4theAges

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall, I think your list is pretty good.

What about Emotional Intelligence?  

Bevo is hardly done by I reckon, but your top 3 is indisputable.

Rossy would eat anyone for breakfast though with pure footy IQ.  Probably finding his EI lately.

 

Fan rated Buckley early on and it looks like he was eventually proven correct.

 

SA have dumb and dumber over there, so Ken shouldn't be that high.

As far as Goody goes, gee wiz, only Krusty the Clown wouldn't have played Jordan Lewis and Nathan Jones on the wide open wings of the G in their twilight years, but he has a mulligan.

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Willing to try new plans and adapt far more than a lot of AFL coaches . . . 

Surely you're pulling my leg DeeSpencer?

Longmire hasn't made a move in a decade.
Pyke never does anything different including when watching a grand final slip away.
Brad Scott did the same thing over again
Richo has plan A which is pressure and that's it
Ross Lyon's had the same plan for years
Leon Cameron has the Ferrari almost always running in straight lines
Worsfold can't fix Essendon's all or nothing plan

The coaches who try things are:
Clarkson
Hardwick
Bevo - way too much since the Premiership
Chris Scott adapts each year
And Kenny Hinkley mixed it up as well

Goodwin's plan with moving the ball and defending has been reasonably consistent. That's plan A and it's clearly what he believes in.
But he regularly makes personnel changes looking for a better balance and he changes things within games to mix things up every time the team is struggling. In both of the last 2 seasons he's made changes to try to sure up the defensive side of the game - last year it was Maxy behind the ball, this year it's been a dedicated focus on transition running after an awful start.

A lot of Melbourne supporters miss things because they are frustrated with the side but even against the Pies:
- Spargo starts on the wing given the job on Tom Phillips
- Frost's injury sends Fritsch back who was playing forward
- Petracca and Hannan get moved up around the ball to create more numbers at the stoppages
- Hunt moves on to the wing to add more pace
- Fritsch/Hunt/Hannan/T Mac/Garlett/Petracca all tried as the deepest forward looking for a match up

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for commentators,

 

Robbo looks very simple and probably is.

Dermie tries to appear like a professor when he really is a mechanic.

Carey's IQ is overrated.

Matty Lloyd, even though he allegedly needed outside help at StBs to get his VCE (Hardwick reference), has a very very good footy IQ.  Rarely sits on the fence.  Goes hard and early.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Briefly analysing my index, breaking it up into “top 8 ranked coaches” and “bottom 8 ranked coaches” you’ll find that in the eight seasons since 2011:

A) 7 of the “top 8” coached flags. Only 1 from the “bottom 8” (Beveridge).

B) 6 of the “top 8” coached their side to runner up in the GF. Only 1 from the “bottom 8” (Pyke).

C) 4 of the “bottom 8” have gotten their sides into preliminary finals as opposed to all eight of the “top 8” coaches. 

Telling? Rubbery figures? Pseudo-intellectual dreck? 

Over to you folks.

Think you might find worsfold at number 11 got a couple of flags in the bank

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    MUD HEAP by KC from Casey

    In the opening round of the 2018 VFL season, the Casey Demons enjoyed an emphatic 107 point victory over Coburg at Piranha Park. The team was loaded with Melbourne listed players (half a dozen of them were in the team that beat Fremantle on Saturday) and the side was in its way to a grand final appearance. A season and a half later, the club returned to the same venue in the hope of kick starting a season that had gone somewhat awry under new coach Sam Radford and while they tasted victory (as y

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    PRETENDERS SENT PACKING by George on the Outer

    Fremantle, the Perth pretenders at sixth on the premiership table should have easily accounted for the Demons, sitting barely a game off the bottom of the ladder.   And for the majority of the game, it certainly looked that would be the case, until the final quarter, when the Demons stopped giving the Dockers easy chances, or making plain, dumb decisions. Not that their situation was helped by some simply appalling umpiring during the match, that kept gifting Fremantle easy scores.  Th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    ORWELLIAN by Whispering Jack

    Please permit me to begin this rather tragic pathetic preview of Melbourne’s forthcoming game against Fremantle with some personal reflections.   Two years ago, we had visitors staying with us who are all sports fans so we arranged tickets for the entire family for the Melbourne vs Fremantle game at the MCG. The Dockers were struggling at the time while the Demons were on the up and up so I was fairly confident about the outcome. Naturally, we all left the ground bitterly disappointed.   

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    PANTSED BY THE PIES by George on the Outer

    A 41 point loss to Collingwood, combined with yet another meagre output from the Melbourne forwards, saw the Demons pantsed by the Collingwood in the Queens Birthday match. For the nth week in a row, Melbourne failed to produce a score that would trouble most sides - it’s inaccuracy alone was again enough to seal the outcome. If that final score of 7.15 were 15.7, the game would have been very different. That sort of output was exactly a repeat of the previous week against Adelaide, when fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    TURNAROUND by KC from Casey

    It is truly amazing what a difference eight days can make in the life and times of a football club. It was a little over a week ago that the Casey Demons side were literally crushed into submission by the Werribee Tigers at Avalon Airport Oval. The losing margin in that game was not huge but the way they struggled to produce and cohesion in their play was obvious for all to see.  On Sunday at Casey Fields as part of heritage week, the team wore the Springvale FC jumper and made its own turn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    TEN YEARS AFTER by Whispering Jack

    There are many who would argue that Melbourne’s current woes go back a full decade to their Queens Birthday engagement of 2009 when the Demons selected a young VCE student Jack Watts to make his debut on the MCG in front of what was expected to be the club’s biggest crowd for a game described as the club’s “grand final in June”. That was the way of the world for the Dean Bailey coached Demons. The critics were skeptical of Melbourne’s decision to put a wet behind the ears schoolboy (albeit

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    TOP END HEADING SOUTH by George on the Outer

    The Demons headed north for their annual game in Darwin, but the disappointing outcome could only mean they are heading south with the all too familiar failings happening again. A Sam Weideman mark and kick for goal with only 30 seconds remaining in the match could have won it for the Demons, but the kick slid sideways and the team went down by two points.  Sam may have been devastated, but the fact that the team could only kick 1 goal 8 behinds in the final quarter lays the blame at the fe

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    MAYDAY by KC from Casey

    There’s not very much that can be said of the lacklustre performance of the Casey Demons at Avalon Airfield Oval against the Werribee Tigers on Saturday other than that it was woeful. There were however, a few small rays of hope for Demon fans, the main one being the display of defender Steven May from injury and to a lesser extent, Kade Kolodjashnij’s return after two months recovering from the effects of concussion. May was in stellar form down back, taking intercept marks, disposing of t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    POINT OF NO RETURN by the Oracle

    Conventional wisdom says that a club reaches the point of no return in the AFL competition if it has won less than four matches at the mid point of the season.  What this means for Melbourne is that in order for it to remain in the race for a top-eight position, it must start winning games now. Moreover, It's not enough to win the next game but it must also start stringing wins together to make up for its deficit in both wins and percentage.  With so much at stake there will be no excu

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    A REAL DOWNER by KC from Casey

    When Sam Weideman kicked his third goal at the midpoint of the second quarter of Casey’s game at Downer Oval , Point Gellibrand on Sunday, he put his team 26 points ahead of the goalless Seagulls. Buoyed by the return from injury of Weideman and a number of other AFL-listed Melbourne players including Jordan Lewis, Mitch Hannan, and Jay Kennedy Harris and an impressive start to Jake Lever’s second game on return from his ACL surgery, the Demons were seemingly on top of the world. Lewis and

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    ANOTHER GIANT PROBLEM by George on the Outer

    On top of its injury problems Melbourne ran into an “in-form” GWS Giants at the MCG in a game which, apart from a final quarter junk-time spree served to highlight the club’s current problems. There’s a virtually non-existent forward line; a plethora of VFL standard players, who might be getting plenty of game experience but most will simply not be up to AFL standard; an inability to kick straight and an ability to waste simple opportunities so that they mustered up only one goal in the fir

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    GIANT HEADACHE by The Oracle

    It seems so long ago that Melbourne took an unchanged line up into a game on the MCG against the Greater Western Sydney Giants and cleaned them up to the tune of 45 points.  In truth, the event occurred literally half a season ago in the final home and away round of the 2018 season and marked the Demons’ return to the finals with more triumphs to come in the weeks ahead. Of course, back then, it was the Giants who were wracked with injuries as they stumbled into the finals series facing the

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

×
×
  • Create New...