On 13/06/2019 at 06:45, leave it to deever said:

Jeffy used to keep his feet but nowadays goes to ground too quick.

And will not launch either. 

Last year, and this season,  he has been our only player in our goal-square,  with long kick coming in... one, or two opponents moving to the ball in flight... and what does jeffy do.?  nothing,  just stands there and does not try to punch the ball to ground.   Just lets them mark the ball.  FFS.....

 

... you have to compete,  you have to go... and a jump to punch the ball takes NO courage,  whatsoever.!

That is a give-up, too-hard signal,  to the whole team,  who are besting the Rzzzes off.

  On 13/06/2019 at 11:51, DV8 said:

And will not launch either. 

Last year, and this season,  he has been our only player in our goal-square,  with long kick coming in... one, or two opponents moving to the ball in flight... and what does jeffy do.?  nothing,  just stands there and does not try to punch the ball to ground.   Just lets them mark the ball.  FFS.....

 

... you have to compete,  you have to go... and a jump to punch the ball takes NO courage,  whatsoever.!

That is a give-up, too-hard signal,  to the whole team,  who are besting the Rzzzes off.

His form dropped off at a crucial time 2 years ago and he hasnt played that well since.

I hope he leaves this year. Played a part but his best seems well behind.

 

  On 13/06/2019 at 05:02, Lefty said:

Who plays on that kid Hogan?

LOL you can just see this unfolding can't you !! Has done nothing for an eternity and now when playing us will literally explode!!!!!! and be BOG ! Just so typical! 

Edited June 13, 20195 yr by picket fence

  On 12/06/2019 at 06:59, binman said:

Its funny you should say that. i didn't notice them going through May as such but i was not nearly as impressed with his defensive work as seems to be the consensus on Demonland. I might be wrong but i think May was on De Gooey for much of the day and DG bagged 3 goals (though i doubt all 3 were on May).

I'm not sure about him not being a one on one defender. I certainly hope he is seeing that is precisely what we got him for. 

That said there were a number of occasions where he was beaten but one really struck out. I couldn't help but wonder what scorn would have been heaped on OMac if he had been so easily beaten one on one and turned inside out in the way the way de goey did to May when he kicked his third goal of the afternoon. Or for that matter when May elected to fly for a mark on the half back line rather than spoil or stay down, missed it and gifted them another goal. 

I reckon this is really unfair of you.

With OMac your rating was always "he spoils and that's a big part of a defender's job". You never seemed to look at who was kicking goals and whether they were on him or not.

May comes in and your first criticism is that De Goey kicked 3 so he wasn't as good as Demonland thinks.

May showed more defensive bodywork and positioning of an AFL standard than I've seen from OMac all year. He was on De Goey in part because we lost Frost and our match ups seemed to go askew (initially we had Frost on Stephenson but when he got concussed IIRC we sent Hibberd there, and I suspect the initial plan was Hibberd to De Goey).

And there are maybe two defenders in the AFL who would have stopped De Goey's goal. 

  On 13/06/2019 at 12:49, titan_uranus said:

I reckon this is really unfair of you.

With OMac your rating was always "he spoils and that's a big part of a defender's job". You never seemed to look at who was kicking goals and whether they were on him or not.

May comes in and your first criticism is that De Goey kicked 3 so he wasn't as good as Demonland thinks.

May showed more defensive bodywork and positioning of an AFL standard than I've seen from OMac all year. He was on De Goey in part because we lost Frost and our match ups seemed to go askew (initially we had Frost on Stephenson but when he got concussed IIRC we sent Hibberd there, and I suspect the initial plan was Hibberd to De Goey).

And there are maybe two defenders in the AFL who would have stopped De Goey's goal. 

Stop it.. you are making far too much sense in this post ?

Omac will be lucky to get another game this year if May and Lever put in those solid performance each week. They'll only get better with more match fitness too.

Edited June 13, 20195 yr by dazzledavey36

  On 13/06/2019 at 12:17, leave it to deever said:

His form dropped off at a crucial time 2 years ago and he hasnt played that well since.

I hope he leaves this year. Played a part but his best seems well behind.

 

Yep,  call time.  I wouldn't trust him in a GF.

Thankfully we have a weekend off (from disappointment).

  On 13/06/2019 at 07:55, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Agreed. May's the defender on the big bucks, so he takes the opposition's marquee key forward.

Hogan's had a rough month, but he still played a brownlow vote worthy game Vs Freo in round 5 and kicked 2 goals against Collingwood in round 11.

Hogan played  V's Freo, that would be special! 

Players on a break I’m guessing. Hunty enjoying himself at Movie World. All good as long as they took a Sherrin with them, those lines can get awfully long and congested.

  On 13/06/2019 at 23:24, Dee Zephyr said:

Players on a break I’m guessing. Hunty enjoying himself at Movie World. All good as long as they took a Sherrin with them, those lines can get awfully long and congested.

Please tell me this didnt actually happen, and that the players are in Melbourne working on their skills and the gameplan.

 

Edited June 13, 20195 yr by Petraccattack

  On 13/06/2019 at 23:24, Dee Zephyr said:

Players on a break I’m guessing. Hunty enjoying himself at Movie World. All good as long as they took a Sherrin with them, those lines can get awfully long and congested.

Bet he hits the turnstiles and doesn’t make it onto the ride.

  On 13/06/2019 at 12:49, titan_uranus said:

I reckon this is really unfair of you.

With OMac your rating was always "he spoils and that's a big part of a defender's job". You never seemed to look at who was kicking goals and whether they were on him or not.

May comes in and your first criticism is that De Goey kicked 3 so he wasn't as good as Demonland thinks.

May showed more defensive bodywork and positioning of an AFL standard than I've seen from OMac all year. He was on De Goey in part because we lost Frost and our match ups seemed to go askew (initially we had Frost on Stephenson but when he got concussed IIRC we sent Hibberd there, and I suspect the initial plan was Hibberd to De Goey).

And there are maybe two defenders in the AFL who would have stopped De Goey's goal. 

I watched May fairly closely, and thought he had a really good game.  He added leadership to the back half, did a lot of little things, used his body well, positioned himself well and attacked the contests.  For a first game (I’m discounting the quarter he played earlier in the year), he gets a big tick from me.

  On 13/06/2019 at 20:36, bingers said:

Thankfully we have a weekend off (from disappointment).

I'd still give the bye a sniff against us...

  On 13/06/2019 at 22:25, ManDee said:

Hogan played  V's Freo, that would be special! 

I knew someone would pull me up for that one.

For the record Hogan played an outstanding game against GWS (not Freo) in round 5.

  On 13/06/2019 at 12:49, titan_uranus said:

I reckon this is really unfair of you.

With OMac your rating was always "he spoils and that's a big part of a defender's job". You never seemed to look at who was kicking goals and whether they were on him or not.

May comes in and your first criticism is that De Goey kicked 3 so he wasn't as good as Demonland thinks.

May showed more defensive bodywork and positioning of an AFL standard than I've seen from OMac all year. He was on De Goey in part because we lost Frost and our match ups seemed to go askew (initially we had Frost on Stephenson but when he got concussed IIRC we sent Hibberd there, and I suspect the initial plan was Hibberd to De Goey).

And there are maybe two defenders in the AFL who would have stopped De Goey's goal. 

Unfair, really?

My critique of May was pretty balanced and fair i would have thought. A long way from the hyperbole that often masquerades as objective assessment that is more the norm on DL.

I didn't even say May had a bad game, which he didn't. I thought in fact he had an ok game, not great, but ok. His spoiling was mostly really good, the best part of his game actually.

I simply said that i was 'not nearly as impressed with his defensive work as seems to be the consensus on Demonland'.

I noted that JDG kicked 3 goals but also said i doubted all 3 were on May. I said there was a number of occasions where he was beaten, which is true. I noted he cost us a goal flying for a mark when he missed it and got turned inside out by JDG for another - both true. Hardly unfair or examples of stinging, unfounded criticism. 

And i didn't say that the fact that JDG kicked 3 goals on May was 'the reason he wasn't as good as Demonland thinks'. That's a misinterpretation of my comments.

Its actually not true that with Omac i don't look at who kick goals on us. It is a critical metric for a defender - as is the number of spoils (which as i say May was good at against the Pies). I have made the point many times this year that with one or two exceptions Omac has had very few goals kicked on him by direct opponents.The players that have hurt us this year are not the bigs but the small and medium forwards. Like JDG.

Finally i wasn't comparing OMac and May, simply pointing out he would have copped it on DL if he had been turned inside out by JDG the way May was. Unfairly of course because as you say JDG is gun and defenders get beaten.  But much of the criticism Omac cops is unfair so it would be par for the course.

It goes without saying that May is obviously a much better player than Omac and may well end up keeping him out of the team if Frosty continues to perform well. 

But i'm not sure about you, but i have very high expectations of May. He is an AA defender in the prime of his career that we have paid dearly for (picks and salary cap space) and given up our best key forward for him in a season where we can't buy a goal. Glad he got though this game and i expect he will be a gun for us. But i mark him hard and expect better than ok games from here on in. 

 

 

Edited June 14, 20195 yr by binman

  On 14/06/2019 at 02:43, binman said:

Unfair, really?

My critique of May was pretty balanced and fair i would have thought. A long way from the hyperbole that often masquerades as objective assessment that is more the norm on DL.

I didn't even say May had a bad game, which he didn't. I thought in fact he had an ok game, not great, but ok. His spoiling was mostly really good, the best part of his game actually.

I simply said that i was 'not nearly as impressed with his defensive work as seems to be the consensus on Demonland'.

I noted that JDG kicked 3 goals but also said i doubted all 3 were on May. I said there was a number of occasions where he was beaten, which is true. I noted he cost us a goal flying for a mark when he missed it and got turned inside out by JDG for another - both true. Hardly unfair or examples of stinging, unfounded criticism. 

And i didn't say that the fact that JDG kicked 3 goals on May was 'the reason he wasn't as good as Demonland thinks'. That's a misinterpretation of my comments.

Its actually not true that with Omac i don't look at who kick goals on us. It is a critical metric for a defender - as is the number of spoils (which as i say May was good at against the Pies). I have made the point many times this year that with one or two exceptions Omac has had very few goals kicked on him by direct opponents.The players that have hurt us this year are not the bigs but the small and medium forwards. Like JDG.

Finally i wasn't comparing OMac and May, simply pointing out he would have copped it on DL if he had been turned inside out by JDG the way May was. Unfairly of course because as you say JDG is gun and defenders get beaten.  But much of the criticism Omac cops is unfair so it would be par for the course.

It goes without saying that May is obviously a much better player than Omac and may well end up keeping him out of the team if Frosty continues to perform well. 

But i'm not sure about you, but i have very high expectations of May. He is an AA defender in the prime of his career that we have paid dearly for (picks and salary cap space) and given up our best key forward for him in a season where we can't buy a goal. Glad he got though this game and i expect he will be a gun for us. But i mark him hard and expect better than ok games from here on in. 

 

 

Hogan wanted to leave. He wasn’t going to stay. He was injured for a large part of last year and has not been that great this year, including some disciplinary issues.

  On 14/06/2019 at 03:00, Stormy Dee said:

Hogan wanted to leave. He wasn’t going to stay. He was injured for a large part of last year and has not been that great this year, including some disciplinary issues.

He was contracted for 2019. If we wanted to keep him this season we could have. Which all things considered would have been no bad thing given Tmac can't mark or kick and the Weed was dropped for poor form.

But we wanted the pick six so we could use it to get May. Which i'm ok with but it doesn't change the fact we gave up a lot to get May and it is reasonable to expect him to deliver. 

 

  On 12/06/2019 at 06:48, Matsuo Basho said:

Out: TMac Spargo J.Wagner Garlett Frost (inj)

In: Preuss Lockhart C.Wagner Lewis Petty

Shuffling deckchairs but TMac has got to go and Preuss at least gives bash n crash (plus has better goal returns).

Lockhart > Spargo 

Unfortunately 'Bash & Crash' is not the issue.....& bringing in Lewis & Preuss wont make our team any quicker which is where our deficiencies lie.

 

  On 13/06/2019 at 06:45, leave it to deever said:

Jeffy used to keep his feet but nowadays goes to ground too quick.

Good stats Deever, however, tackles are not the area that's costing us wins. Accountability, skill level & efficiency is where we are [censored] & this is straight from the coaches mouth. Garlett, Hunt & Spargo all in the mid 50% area of efficiency. If your only getting single figure stats & half are going to the opposition then for me, even if you are scoring a couple of goals, unacceptable!

  On 13/06/2019 at 23:44, Petraccattack said:

Please tell me this didnt actually happen, and that the players are in Melbourne working on their skills and the gameplan.

Parody account?

  On 14/06/2019 at 00:05, buck_nekkid said:

I watched May fairly closely, and thought he had a really good game.  He added leadership to the back half, did a lot of little things, used his body well, positioned himself well and attacked the contests.  For a first game (I’m discounting the quarter he played earlier in the year), he gets a big tick from me.

He dropped quite a few contested marks he would've normally taken too, and they will come with match practice. He'll be a beauty for the next few years.

  On 14/06/2019 at 02:43, binman said:

Unfair, really?

My critique of May was pretty balanced and fair i would have thought. A long way from the hyperbole that often masquerades as objective assessment that is more the norm on DL.

I didn't even say May had a bad game, which he didn't. I thought in fact he had an ok game, not great, but ok. His spoiling was mostly really good, the best part of his game actually.

I simply said that i was 'not nearly as impressed with his defensive work as seems to be the consensus on Demonland'.

I noted that JDG kicked 3 goals but also said i doubted all 3 were on May. I said there was a number of occasions where he was beaten, which is true. I noted he cost us a goal flying for a mark when he missed it and got turned inside out by JDG for another - both true. Hardly unfair or examples of stinging, unfounded criticism. 

And i didn't say that the fact that JDG kicked 3 goals on May was 'the reason he wasn't as good as Demonland thinks'. That's a misinterpretation of my comments.

Its actually not true that with Omac i don't look at who kick goals on us. It is a critical metric for a defender - as is the number of spoils (which as i say May was good at against the Pies). I have made the point many times this year that with one or two exceptions Omac has had very few goals kicked on him by direct opponents.The players that have hurt us this year are not the bigs but the small and medium forwards. Like JDG.

Finally i wasn't comparing OMac and May, simply pointing out he would have copped it on DL if he had been turned inside out by JDG the way May was. Unfairly of course because as you say JDG is gun and defenders get beaten.  But much of the criticism Omac cops is unfair so it would be par for the course.

It goes without saying that May is obviously a much better player than Omac and may well end up keeping him out of the team if Frosty continues to perform well. 

But i'm not sure about you, but i have very high expectations of May. He is an AA defender in the prime of his career that we have paid dearly for (picks and salary cap space) and given up our best key forward for him in a season where we can't buy a goal. Glad he got though this game and i expect he will be a gun for us. But i mark him hard and expect better than ok games from here on in. 

 

 

Yes, unfair.

There is undoubtedly a lot of irrational and unjustified hyperbolic rubbish on here and you don't get drawn into that, which is always to be commended. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with you, and I thought the tenor of your post was to knock May and one way you did it was to note De Goey had kicked three. Saying "well he didn't kick all of them on May" is accurate, so then what is the point of mentioning it in the first place?

Marking May more harshly because of your high expectations is fine, but it appears to me that a corollary of that is you mark OMac more generously because of your lower expectations. 

We're all more than entitled to expect May to play high level football given what we gave up to get him (although I disagree with your argument that we should have kept Hogan instead - he wouldn't commit to us beyond 2019 and so the opportunity arose to turn him into May. I'll defend that decision in that context until the cows come home). But I remain of the view that your post about his defensive work was unfair in light of how you have commented on OMac this year.

Anyway, that aside one point you make that I do agree with is that it's not really the big forwards who are tearing us up this year as much as it is smaller or medium forwards. Hibberd and Jetta being injured/out of form are probably doing us more damage than Lever/May missing or Frost/OMac having limitations.

Sportsbet odds 

• Freo $2.33  Demons $1.56

Very juicy odds on Freo. I'm sure they'll shorten by match day.

 

  On 14/06/2019 at 02:33, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I'd still give the bye a sniff against us...

I concur. We are zero chance of picking up 4 points.

If May plays on Hogan, I expect the result of that single contest will be simplistically viewed by some as a proxy as to whether we "won" or lost on those two trades.