3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Until we can confirmed facts that they are being overworked, at this stage i just feel it is a cop out. These guys are paid sporting professionals and should be versatile to change in training programs.

Besides, training reports we have had on here is there hasn't been nothing out of the ordinary in terms of preparation or doing a heavy extra work load etc.

Spot on.

If I had a major concern about our training - apart from the injuries - it would be that we did far less ball movement / decision making drills this year from what I saw.

It was a lot of skill development ‘craft’ stuff, plus running, plus match simulation. 

I think we missed a step that we used to do a lot of under Roos which is drills that emphasise 2 way pressure and pressure release. Drills that teach players how to cover off opponents as a team and at the same time teach guys to release team mates in to space. 

1 hour ago, america de cali said:

Jones might and should be dropped but the club don’t have guts to do it unless our season becomes an irrecoverable disaster. Of courses it will be too late then. If so he might then pick a farewell tribute game in round 23. Hibberd IMO is going through a bad patch and might be carrying some niggles and can turn it around. 

Jones could play the defensive forward pocket role

25 minutes ago, phuket demon said:

Jones could play the defensive forward pocket role

Same question as for Lewis. How many opposing small forwards could he keep up with?

I'm all for members crowdfunding a statue to honour his loyalty and extraordinary resilience through a sustained period of on and off field mediocrity but he is in terrible form and the team would be improved if he was dropped. Reality is that he is a centre square player, if match committee does pick him to play that role there is no role for him in the 22. Certainly not a winger. and I doubt he'd be a success as a defensive forward pocket.

58 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

He’s fitter this year than previous. Had a good summer running up a group not in the lesser group.

But he looks like a guy who used to have pace to beat opponents and now doesn’t. And it’s a fair point to say he plays his best footy as an attacking back and has to defend deeper because we don’t have anyone other than Jetta who can win a one on one.

He isn’t getting space to balance up so is bombing the ball. He isn’t getting put in to space either because we don’t clear it wide with kicks or handballs.

Some more talent around him and proper midfield defensive work should help but yeah he’s a concern

Good comments.

Hibberd may be down on form, but he is far from our worst and I have far more confidence in him than I do with his team mates.  

Hibberd was great in 2017. Good in 2018. So far he's been average this year. He's been Frostified - gets the ball, goes for a run then turns it over. 

Needs to improve. His game might be impacted by our lack of players who can run the lines with him.

32 minutes ago, phuket demon said:

Jones could play the defensive forward pocket role

Hard to do that without speed, pd

If we had a bunch of quick mids that were good at run and spread (e.g. Fantasia, Smith, McGrath, Shiel, Zacha, Heppell, Merrett) perhaps there would still be a spot for a slower inside mid such as Jones who balances needs.

When a guy like Lockard comes in after 2 weeks and surprises with his pace and spread, you just know that the game is quickly moving past Jones 

Edited April 8, 20195 yr by Moonshadow

IMO Hibberd's biggest problem so far this year has been his kicking. He's missing targets repeatedly.

Because of how he plays (which is to take the game on and run off half-back), if he turns it over then he's usually out of position on the rebound. The more he turns it over, the more his opponent will hang back off him and benefit on the rebound.

I don't want him to stop running and providing drive, but if he doesn't improve his kicking and start hitting targets then we're going to have a tough time.

I don't think Pig is the smartest footballer going around. I've listened to a few interviews and been surprised. His approach is simple: mark or spoil, grab ball, run off opponent, long penetrating kick forward to team mate. It's an old fashioned approach that has worked reasonably well in the past.

But 666 has not helped our defence.

This year I've noticed he doesn't do the defensive reset very well. That is, quickly get back into position, keep within touch of his opponent, get the zone working again. So when his kick goes astray or the ball is knocked loose, usually under pressure, he's caught out and away the overlap goes. 

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

IMO Hibberd's biggest problem so far this year has been his kicking. He's missing targets repeatedly.

 

Spot on. It is huge issue for us. Of our defenders only OMac, Lewis and Salem can be relied on to hit a target. The rest are lucky to go at 50%, which is just diabolical in modern footy.

Thoughts of Tmac going back send shivers down my spine given how poor his field kicking is

1 hour ago, phuket demon said:

Jones could play the defensive forward pocket role

At Casey?

Only 3 rounds in and not much to go on but out of the 26 players used so far i have him ranked 23rd (on composite averages).

His worst game was against the Bombers ranked 22nd just below ANB with a weighted score of 0.550

Average this season is 1.333

To put that in some perspective his average weighted score for the entire 2018 home & away was 2.861 and he ranked 15th out of 37 players that took the field.

Edited April 8, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

15 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

At Casey?

Now now Chook...be nice!

12 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Now now Chook...be nice!

I lost my niceness on Friday night.

Here are all players aged 29 and above on our list...

Jordan Lewis
Nathan Jones
Jeff Garlett
Neville Jetta
Michael Hibberd

All 5 of these guys have had very rough starts to the year, for varying reasons. If that experienced group all drop off the cliff quickly, it leaves a pretty big hole. Hopefully Jetta and Hibberd can get back on track and give us a good 3 or 4 years yet.

14 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

Here are all players aged 29 and above on our list...

Jordan Lewis
Nathan Jones
Jeff Garlett
Neville Jetta
Michael Hibberd

All 5 of these guys have had very rough starts to the year, for varying reasons. If that experienced group all drop off the cliff quickly, it leaves a pretty big hole. Hopefully Jetta and Hibberd can get back on track and give us a good 3 or 4 years yet.

while hopeful, im not sure that Hibberd and Jetta have another 3 or 4 years left in them. they seem to take a battering most weeks, and it will eventually take its toll on their bodies, just like it has on Jones.

speaking of which, if it looks like we cant make finals in the second half of the year, then where does that leave Jones and Lewis? I mean one could argue that there isn't much point in continuing to play them if they aren't going around again next year, and would rather we try to experiment and put time into other players instead.

I think its sort of the same for Garlett. if he can't recapture some form in the first half of this year and hold his spot, then its unlikely we will give him another contract for next year.

 

 

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Until we can confirmed facts that they are being overworked, at this stage i just feel it is a cop out. These guys are paid sporting professionals and should be versatile to change in training programs.

Besides, training reports we have had on here is there hasn't been nothing out of the ordinary in terms of preparation or doing a heavy extra work load etc.

Does football track things like CTL and ATL and TSS to target macro meso and micro peaks like cycling does ?

Poor man's Frost.

2 hours ago, demoniac said:

His game might be impacted by our lack of players who can run

... so many bone issues in our players. 

 

thanks Misso.

Edited April 8, 20195 yr by DV8

8 hours ago, beelzebub said:

There's an organised chaos ?? 

Yes. The universe.

13 minutes ago, praha said:

Yes. The universe.

You must be Carl Sagan. 

27 minutes ago, praha said:

Yes. The universe.

There's a universe...but is it 'organised' ?

Organised requires a construct and design. Unless you wish to invoke the God-clause ?? I don't think there's a master plan .

11 hours ago, poita said:

Michael Hibberd was unfit when he came to the club and, missed the first month of 2017, but got himself sorted and was excellent for the remainder of the season.

He looked out of sorts from the moment Lever came into the side in 2018 as he was shuffled into a more defensive role that stifled his ability to win the ball and setup attacks from half back. His form improved slightly when Lever was injured, then he missed a month of footy, and never really got going again.

This year his form has been putrid. He has never been quick, but looks like he is running in wet cement at present. His kicking is a 50/50 proposition at best. He is one of the worst culprits at being fourth or fifth up in a contest, leaving his man unattended at the base of the pack. He is being isolated by opposition teams and exploited on an all too regular basis.

Most significantly he has lost all ability to defend in a one-v-one situation. His positioning and timing are non-existent. He is easily nudged out of the way, even by smaller opponents, and far too often loses touch with his man.

With only 126 AFL games to his name, his body should be in reasonable nick but he is 30 before the start of next season. Was 2017 an aberration and he is just a serviceable player quickly coming to the end, or is there something that we can fix to return him to his best football?

If I was coach I'd be tempted to throw Hibberd forward this week and try to reset him with a different role. Petracca can play midfield or defence and try to find some more football.

Spot on and Nev also has been underwhelming often flying at the REAR of packs with no hope of spoiling orvmarking.

Plus Oscar And Frosty have played the 3 worst games in their mediocre careers with no judgement at all.

In all the defence has looked far worse than at the start of last season and I wonder following its rehabilitation in the last 8/10 games if the Prelim Final has knocked the stuffing out of this group.

(Especially with no review that we are aware of)

8 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

This year I've noticed he doesn't do the defensive reset very well. That is, quickly get back into position, keep within touch of his opponent, get the zone working again. So when his kick goes astray or the ball is knocked loose, usually under pressure, he's caught out and away the overlap goes. 

He's always been like this.

Last year, we weren't caught out as much with his problems on transition because we didn't turn it over as much (not when we were winning, at least) and we also applied far more defensive pressure up the ground which gave him time.

He's always had a tendency to leave his man behind to link up in a chain up to the wing and even half forward. It's a good thing for us when we're on and when we're hitting targets. But, much like our game plan in general, when we're off and we're missing targets it opens us up out the back.

Some accurate observations but in the main I just think he’s down on form. My faith is wavering with a few but not Hibbo. He will come good.

13 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Jones is done im afraid.. he offers nothing at all, and the he set the scene on Friday night with the very first entrance into the 50 with along non descript bomb, because he is to slow to take the extra 2 steps and look a up and find a target.. it happens all the time.

The problem is we wont drop him so we have to carry him as he has carried us for a very long time so it makes it even harder.. its the worst possible scenario for Goody. Can you drop a captain.. i dont think so, but when Lewis comes back in, we will be the slowest side in the comp. FACT.

 

Imagine having Jones, Jetta, Lewis in your back half.

 

 

We shouldn't have made him captain again. It was plain as day he was finished last year and yet not only did he go around again, we made him captain.

I think we've got to drop him if he's not performing or there's not a role. Call it 'soreness' or whatever you like, but internally, drop him.

And he never carried us for the record. He was one of the only players who took pride in his own performance. Even in those days he played selfish football, as evidenced by Roos banging on about it when he came to the club.