46 minutes ago, Chelly said:

... and Tim Smith is the mystery man this week

 

Wasn't he out with a toe injury after the St Kilda game?

He didn't crack a mention in the injury report for some reason.

9 hours ago, Skuit said:

Cameron Ling of all folk induced a mini-insight this week. He was banging on about how we would have no excuses next year regarding a later start to the pre-season, tsk tsk. Richmong recently backed a flag up with a prelim appearance you see. No mention of the Tiger's three elimination finals and bottoming out for a year leading up to that though. And definitely no mention of the Cats reaching a prelim and semi before dropping out of finals for a year prior to their 2007 premiership - teams which Ling was a member of.

We certainly had an interrupted preseason with a huge number of surgeries, aggravated by the later start and then a massive knock in confidence once 2019 was underway. Most of our midfield didn't train together until well after Xmas, and the injuries to our offensive and defensive lines have been coming consistently ever since. Yet, three months later with no sign of improvement and that nagging feeling starts to creep in - why can other teams seemingly manage with injuries and back up in the finals year after year with later pre-season starts?

The insight is this: while a few on here acknowledge the above injuries and late start as a significant factor in our horrible slide this year (with many of those losing patience over recent weeks), little has been said of the combination of those factors with the age/inexperience of our list. Only one member on our team has ever had to back up from finals - an elimination final at that. Meanwhile (without running the numbers), most of those going in for post-season surgery were likely under 24, possibly experiencing their first major clean-ups.

I'm not an elite sportsperson - and I definitely wasn't one in my early twenties. I have no idea what it's like returning as a young footballer from dual shoulder surgery (taking Oliver as an example) and the trying to develop confidence in those limbs/body parts again in a limited time-frame knowing I'm coming up against ruthless competitors. Forget the age spread, the primary drivers of our team are kids; they're experiencing something entirely new this season, and I'll be backing them in to learn something valuable from this year.

 

 

 

Excellent post skuit. 

Really good point about the challenges for a young team backing up after a deep finals run. In addition to the physical impact and any corrective surgery they have one less month of training which makes it harder to reach peak fitness. I suspect for older players (up to a certain age perhaps) the impact of that month is less as is the physical impact of being smashed for 26 weeks.

Look at the teams in recent years who do back up - cats, pies, tigers and west coast. All have older lists and all have been playing finals for several years.

The one premiership team that fell away in the last five years was the dogs who not coincidentaly had a relatively young list.

I suspect this factor is a key reason why the giants have struggled to go all the way. They have had a young list (not so young now) and have been an as smashed by injury. Come finals time they have run out of gas.

I think that they are better placed now as they have a much more seasoned, hardened list and it is for that reason I like them for the flag.

Edited August 7, 20195 yr by binman

13 hours ago, binman said:

Look at the teams in recent years who do back up - cats, pies, tigers and west coast. All have older lists and all have been playing finals for several years.

The one premiership team that fell away in the last five years was the dogs who not coincidentally had a relatively young list.

Just to reinforce your point - the Cats, Pies, and West Coast have in order the 5th, 3rd, and 4th oldest lists. We're 13th for age and 14th for games played. The Bulldogs are 12th and 13th.

The Tigers are 10th for average age, but are 6th for games played and have 14 players with over 120 games under their belts  compared to our eight: five of those who haven't gotten on the field for the bulk of 2019. That leaves Jones, Hibberd and TMac. For the record, Geelong have 15, Collingwood 16, and West Coast 14 players with over 120 games of experience.

Without naming the players it's obvious each of these team's core drivers are also older and more experienced compared to ours. Here, I've run some numbers (fairly quickly so there might be minor errors). Going by the top six in last year's best and fairest results, the average games played for each team's best on-field third was as follows:

Geelong: 195.8

Collingwood: 181.8

West Coast: 181.8

Richmond: 193

Melbourne: 134

Sure, mean averages can be easily skewed with a small sample, but the only players with less than 120 games from those B&F lists outside of Melbourne are Tom Phillips, Tim Kelly, and Kane Lambert. For the MFC it was Gawn, Oliver, Harmes and Gus. Without having seen much of the other teams this year to make a comparison, our other two top six players from 2018, Jones and TMac, are likely to drop out. Salem and Petracca could feature, bringing our average down to around just 88 games!

The numbers tell the tale.

 

 

Edited August 7, 20195 yr by Skuit

31 minutes ago, Skuit said:

The numbers tell the tale.

I love posts like this. Just sharing my appreciation for how much work you put into that. Fantastic.

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

I love posts like this. Just sharing my appreciation for how much work you put into that. Fantastic.

Cheers LN. Was probably around two hours of research, but I love my club and current state of denial.

46 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Just to reinforce your point - the Cats, Pies, and West Coast have in order the 5th, 3rd, and 4th oldest lists. We're 13th for age and 14th for games played. The Bulldogs are 12th and 13th.

The Tigers are 10th for average age, but are 6th for games played and have 14 players with over 120 games under their belts  compared to our eight: five of those who haven't gotten on the field for the bulk of 2019. That leaves Jones, Hibberd and TMac. For the record, Geelong have 15, Collingwood 16, and West Coast 14 players with over 120 games of experience.

Without naming the players it's obvious each of these team's core drivers are also older and more experienced compared to ours. Here, I've run some numbers (fairly quickly so there might be minor errors). Going by the top six in last year's best and fairest results, the average games played for each team's best on-field third was as follows:

Geelong: 195.8

Collingwood: 181.8

West Coast: 181.8

Richmond: 193

Melbourne: 134

Sure, mean averages can be easily skewed with a small sample, but the only players with less than 120 games from those B&F lists outside of Melbourne are Tom Phillips, Tim Kelly, and Kane Lambert. For the MFC it was Gawn, Oliver, Harmes and Gus. Without having seen much of the other teams this year to make a comparison, our other two top six players from 2018, Jones and TMac, are likely to drop out. Salem and Petracca could feature, bringing our average down to around just 88 games!

The numbers tell the tale.

 

 

Tried to Pm you (why don't some folk have Pm's - too much fanmail??) - greatly appreciate the effort you put in and then detail it in a measured way back to those that wouldn't know where to begin looking (or have the inclination). Champion effort. Same for @fr_ap

5 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Tried to Pm you (why don't some folk have Pm's - too much fanmail??) - greatly appreciate the effort you put in and then detail it in a measured way back to those that wouldn't know where to begin looking (or have the inclination). Champion effort. Same for @fr_ap

I'm pretty sure my personal inbox is open to anyone. Mods?

35 minutes ago, Skuit said:

 state of denial.

Egypt?

Also appreciate the work here.. Keep up the good work and transparency without PM.

Maybe there could be a meeting place for Dlanders at the game to share  their appreciation 

So much ignorant presumption going on here, and so little analysis. For those of you who are talking common sense, it’s almost pointless to argue logic against those whose agenda is set. The whole notion of poor medical management and poor conditioning should logically be scrutinised with respect to WHY players are unavailable. As an example, of the 14 players listed on this week’s injury list (by the club), all but 4 are unavailable due to traumatic orthopaedic incidents, like Tom McDonald’s knee. These have NOTHING to do with medical management. We have had a competition high incidence of these injuries. It happens sometimes, and is unlucky. Collingwood on the other hand currently is nursing 6 hamstring injuries. That COULD be coincidence, but questions about their methods and management are obviously justified. Our injury list is, and has been all season a hotchpotch of random stuff. Bad luck is the biggest factor. A less than ideal preseason prep plays a part obviously. 

28 minutes ago, Webber said:

So much ignorant presumption going on here, and so little analysis. For those of you who are talking common sense, it’s almost pointless to argue logic against those whose agenda is set. The whole notion of poor medical management and poor conditioning should logically be scrutinised with respect to WHY players are unavailable. As an example, of the 14 players listed on this week’s injury list (by the club), all but 4 are unavailable due to traumatic orthopaedic incidents, like Tom McDonald’s knee. These have NOTHING to do with medical management. We have had a competition high incidence of these injuries. It happens sometimes, and is unlucky. Collingwood on the other hand currently is nursing 6 hamstring injuries. That COULD be coincidence, but questions about their methods and management are obviously justified. Our injury list is, and has been all season a hotchpotch of random stuff. Bad luck is the biggest factor. A less than ideal preseason prep plays a part obviously. 

Logic be dammed, it's all the fault of Misson, goody, pert, Bartlett, McCartney, omac, watts and Jones. 

1 hour ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Logic be dammed, it's all the fault of Misson, goody, pert, Bartlett, McCartney, omac, watts and Jones. 

Excellent list. But you left off Satyricon.

On 7/30/2019 at 11:36 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

Weideman and KK officially out for the season.

Beauty is they both will start pre season injury free and ready to go.

https://m.melbournefc.com.au/news/2019-07-30/injury-update-season-over-for-weideman

 

On 7/30/2019 at 10:39 AM, Lord Nev said:

Not 100% sure on reliability of info, but apparently Sam Weideman's injury from the weekend is a lot worse than expected and he could be done for the year. More related to injury impact rather than concussion as such.

 

On 7/30/2019 at 11:47 AM, chookrat said:

Misson strikes again

 

On 7/30/2019 at 12:21 PM, poita said:

I can't comprehend why we keep allowing / instructing our key forwards to lead to the same spots. Yes, a clash of heads is a total accident and completely unavoidable in a contact sport, but that particular incident wouldn't have happened if they were leading in different directions. You never see Darling and Kennedy in the same areas.

Lord Nev - what has Misson to do with Weid’s broken jaw (or did I miss your ‘irony’?)

 

And dazzle - is KK actually on our list or is he another mystery man?

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

Lord Nev - what has Misson to do with Weid’s broken jaw (or did I miss your ‘irony’?)

I didn't say anything about Misson. Think you're attributing me to the wrong post mate.

20 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

I didn't say anything about Misson. Think you're attributing me to the wrong post mate.

Humblest of apologies your lordship 

I meant to ask chookrat

Honestly now May is out for the season with his third hamstring, you gotta question why we keep bringing in under done players or players with a history of injuries to play in a dead season. An early pre season start for May would have been far more beneficial than playing today. He came to us unfit so make him work to fix that. We know he can play, we don’t know if we can play more than 2 matches in a row without getting injured. 

1 minute ago, Jaded said:

Honestly now May is out for the season with his third hamstring, you gotta question why we keep bringing in under done players or players with a history of injuries to play in a dead season. An early pre season start for May would have been far more beneficial than playing today. He came to us unfit so make him work to fix that. We know he can play, we don’t know if we can play more than 2 matches in a row without getting injured. 

I've read somewhere that May barely had a soft tissue injury at the GC. He's now had four (three hamstrings and a groin) in 6 months here.

I've also read that the GC wanted him to carry more weight than we did, so when he arrived we wanted his skinfolds lower.

I'm not an expert (@Webber might be able to comment?) but I can't help but query whether the way we've managed May's body since he arrived has impacted on him in a way that has exposed him to soft tissue injuries.

No surprises here. May ruled out for the season. 

 

How many more injuries will we sustain in these last two weeks? Honestly this season can not end quickly enough. 

53 minutes ago, Jaded said:

How many more injuries will we sustain in these last two weeks? Honestly this season can not end quickly enough. 

AFL report says Petty and Baker went off with leg injuries.  The played only 68% and 58% game time respectively so may not be available this week.

54 minutes ago, Jaded said:

How many more injuries will we sustain in these last two weeks? Honestly this season can not end quickly enough. 

i'm gonna go with...five

 

Also no surprises here. Tim Smith and Mitch Hannan ruled out for the rest of the year.

 

Pretty good forward line out for the season injured

J Smith McDonald Garlett

Hannan Weiderman AVB

 

With Tim Smith on the bench

Really disappointed for J Smith, he looked good in pre-season, what a massive mistake putting him back on at Casey fields back in March,.

Thats the start of the easing to the line. Tim Smith plays about 10 games a year over the past 3 years.  Simply not able to withstand AFL footy. With our situation we cannot carry him. 

Injury List - Round 22

Oskar Baker (knee) – available 
Corey Maynard (hip) – test 
* Tom Sparrow (knee) – 2 weeks
Jeff Garlett (shoulder) – season
Mitch Hannan (groin) – season
Neville Jetta (knee) - season
Kade Kolodjashnij (head) – season
Steven May (hamstring) – season
Tom McDonald (knee) – season
Aaron Nietschke (knee) – season
Joel Smith (groin) – season
Tim Smith (foot) – season
Aaron vandenBerg (foot) – season
Sam Weideman (jaw) – season
Guy Walker (shoulder) – indefinite

* probably “2 weeks” and not “season” because he might play in the VFL finals for the Casey Demons if they make it.