Rumour File

[Mister Ed 305]

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

There is so much misinformation around it is just laughable.

On the 2nd back page of the Sun today one journo says Langdon staying with the Pies. Underneath another Journo says Pies want Beams, who wants to go back,  but have no picks, so will use what they get in the Langdon trade. 

That wasn’t Robbo reporting, was it?

[Redleg 40,817]

3 minutes ago, Mister Ed said:

That wasn’t Robbo reporting, was it?

2 Sams Edmund and Landsberger.

[junk 342]

Since we gave JKH a year contract extension we still can [censored] him off. I heard that we are after a St.Kilda player, does anyone know who it is ?

[Demon trucker 1,800]

No one even knows if gold coast will even let him go, the gold coast will get the spoon next year, if I were them I would keep him, then he became a free agent then they will get pick 1 and 2 next year, if hogan goes then we should take the pick to the draft, and get may next year for no trade.

[Neitz the Great 555]

It’s funny isn’t it. We’ve spent years talking about brayshaw’s concussion saying how tough his football style is and that’s why he’s getting them. Now people say that KK is soft because of his style of play e.g. more outside, I guarantee you a lot of those people haven’t seen him. Very excited about his acquisition. The right mix of tough and polish and I think he’ll be a great addition. 

[GCDee 3,199]

38 minutes ago, ENYAW said:

Since we gave JKH a year contract extension we still can [censored] him off. I heard that we are after a St.Kilda player, does anyone know who it is ?

Report earlier in the week suggested us & Essendon were after Ben Long.

[Demons11 6,915]

3 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

It would be a measure of Whoreform's status as a destination club and AFL favourite should they get both Wingard and Scully.

Scully is a risk and they will need their rehab team to work their magic. 

I heard his injury is still holding him back and is not even able to run yet.  

[Demon Disciple 12,064]

41 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Scully is a risk and they will need their rehab team to work their magic. 

I heard his injury is still holding him back and is not even able to run yet.  

Put a dollar 5 metres in front oh him and watch him fly.

[demoniac 1,330]

35 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Tom Scully is a risk and they will need their rehab team to work their magic. 

I heard his injury is still holding him back and is not even able to run yet.  

Scully a risk because the elite part of his game is his hard 2 way running. Coming of a serious ankle injury there has to be doubt that he can sustain the running load required to return to his elite 2 way running best without causing further complications. Additionally he is entering his 28 yo season which is more of note for Scully because we know he was preparing at an elite level as a teenager so he has done more kms than most other players his age.

Wingard is a risk because Clarkson is betting on being able to persuade Wingard step up from semi pro to elite professional preparation. Port's football department and players have lost patience with trying to make him change his ways.

Even if both do get back to their best Hawks are still lacking genuine centre square contested ball mids and key forwards and defenders, and they have an ageing list.  Will the Hawks be a slightly better version of the post Premiership Geelong?

[demoniac 1,330]

1 hour ago, GCDee said:

Report earlier in the week suggested us & Essendon were after Ben Long.

Saints shut that down pretty quick. 

[Redleg 40,817]

I am coming around to the Baghdad Bob way of thinking on deals. That basically is if you get what you want, the actual specifics of the deal is not important. For example, if you want a particular player and you don’t get the pick you would like, but still get the player with the pick received, what does it matter?

We can get hung up on numbers, when it is really the full deal outcome that is important.

[Deemania since 56 6,607]

1 hour ago, Demons11 said:

Scully is a risk and they will need their rehab team to work their magic. 

I heard his injury is still holding him back and is not even able to run yet.  

What? Hand permanently affixed to his membership? Surgery?

[Clintosaurus 7,836]

11 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I am coming around to the Baghdad Bob way of thinking on deals. That basically is if you get what you want, the actual specifics of the deal is not important. For example, if you want a particular player and you don’t get the pick you would like, but still get the player with the pick received, what does it matter?

We can get hung up on numbers, when it is really the full deal outcome that is important.

Clarko don't care what he gives up and it got him 4 flags. Draft picks are somewhat speculative compared to known quantities, so why not. I'd take 5 and 23, give GC 5 for May and KK then try package up 23 and 33 to get something higher.

[Nasher 33,607]

2 hours ago, Neitz the Great said:

We’ve m spent years talking about brayshaw’s concussion saying how tough his football style is and that’s why he’s getting them. 

Have we, though?

My recollection is that most of the dialogue was about whether or not he should give the game away and what a waste of a draft pick he was.

[rpfc 28,253]

9 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

Clarko don't care what he gives up and it got him 4 flags. Draft picks are somewhat speculative compared to known quantities, so why not. I'd take 5 and 23, give GC 5 for May and KK then try package up 23 and 33 to get something higher.

But it is not just the speculative nature of the picks - it's about managing your list and your football club over time with some sort of strategic direction; don't argue the value pick to pick or deal to deal but have an holistic idea of what you want to achieve and each individual part become immaterial. They are only important to link to the next link in the chain of deals and decisions required to get to where you want to get to.

Edited October 14, 2018 by rpfc

[rolling fog 1,207]

1 hour ago, ENYAW said:

Since we gave JKH a year contract extension we still can [censored] him off. I heard that we are after a St.Kilda player, does anyone know who it is ?

There was talk that Jack Steven was gettable, with strong interest shown by Geelong among others. I had seen that MFC had inquired also but seems like StKFC have quashed the possibility of that happening

[rpfc 28,253]

So Hogan isn't seen as "two 1st Round picks", his value is seen as "whatever gets us May and also allows us to have more picks inside 30/get a plethora of mid range picks/insert your own thoughts on what we want to do"...

We didn't do an ingenious trade with GWS in 2015 to get a top 5 pick; we targeted Clayton Oliver and facilitated that ingenuity to get him ahead of Essendon. It is trading toward an end, not each trade being an end in-and-of-itself.

This is the imprint that Mahoney and co. have instilled in my mind the last 5 years.

[Nasher 33,607]

1 minute ago, rpfc said:

But it is not just the speculative nature of the picks - it's about managing your list and your football club over time with some sort of strategic direction; don't argue the value pick to pick or deal to deal but have an holistic idea of what you want to achieve and each individual part become immaterial. They are only important to link to the next link in the chain of deals and decisions required to get to where you want to get to.

Yep. In the Mahoney/Viney/Taylor era we’ve seen two distinct strategies as well. Early in the Roos era it was all about finding cheap ready mades and otherwise trading our way up the draft, loading up on as many talented 18 year olds as possible. 

Now that those 18 year olds are now 21-22 and have formed a solid nucleus for the side, we seem to almost trade our way out of the draft to bring in the right support players to keep building the side.

When looking back, I certainly can’t remember who we gave what draft pick or what we got back. I just remember that the likes of Oliver and Salem are on our list because these guys know what they are doing.

[Dees'97 52]

2 hours ago, Neitz the Great said:

It’s funny isn’t it. We’ve spent years talking about brayshaw’s concussion saying how tough his football style is and that’s why he’s getting them. Now people say that KK is soft because of his style of play e.g. more outside, I guarantee you a lot of those people haven’t seen him. Very excited about his acquisition. The right mix of tough and polish and I think he’ll be a great addition. 

have we got him yet? im a bit out of the loop but haven't seen anything on social media regarding this

[Redleg 40,817]

19 minutes ago, rpfc said:

So Hogan isn't seen as "two 1st Round picks", his value is seen as "whatever gets us May and also allows us to have more picks inside 30/get a plethora of mid range picks/insert your own thoughts on what we want to do"...

We didn't do an ingenious trade with GWS in 2015 to get a top 5 pick; we targeted Clayton Oliver and facilitated that ingenuity to get him ahead of Essendon. It is trading toward an end, not each trade being an end in-and-of-itself.

This is the imprint that Mahoney and co. have instilled in my mind the last 5 years.

And we have now made a preliminary final after being a basket case club only 5 years ago. Now they continue to look for the missing ingredients to get us a flag. 

Pretty good so far. 

[Redleg 40,817]

15 minutes ago, Dees'97 said:

have we got him yet? im a bit out of the loop but haven't seen anything on social media regarding this

Will be a Dee tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest. A top 5 pick player of a few years ago. 

[Moonshadow 17,675]

3 hours ago, ENYAW said:

Since we gave JKH a year contract extension we still can [censored] him off. I heard that we are after a St.Kilda player, does anyone know who it is ?

Ian Stewart, apparently.

[Salems Lot 2,493]

So here is my quandry; the Jesse for May + second round pick aside (effectively what we end up with if that deal goes through) means that we have let a load of ordinary players go off our list and done a swap for another (Preuss).  We received a late pick back for Kent and other than that we are looking at a load of other high later round picks that we already had.

How do we go about trading up the players we have let go with this amount of collateral.  The maths does not add up.

[buck_nekkid 5,846]

3 minutes ago, Salems Lot said:

So here is my quandry; the Jesse for May + second round pick aside (effectively what we end up with if that deal goes through) means that we have let a load of ordinary players go off our list and done a swap for another (Preuss).  We received a late pick back for Kent and other than that we are looking at a load of other high later round picks that we already had.

How do we go about trading up the players we have let go with this amount of collateral.  The maths does not add up.

Preuss equates to supersizing king and flipper

Tyson was behind a big queue for inside mid

kent wanted out for more stability. We had Bernie gracefully retire.

all of the rest were fringe, and obviously assessed as nqr with low potential ceilings.

we have Bradke and Tangles as cat B project players.

we add KK, get hunt firing and return Fritter to the wing.

we land May if we lose hogan

we use our academy pick on Bedford (matching if an oppo club selects him, 2nd or 3rd round at best)

Taylor trades up, or nabs a couple of smokeys 

we are significantly better off

with Petty and Baker still developing we are in a good spot.

[DeeSpencer 25,444]

3 hours ago, Clintosaurus said:

Clarko don't care what he gives up and it got him 4 flags. Draft picks are somewhat speculative compared to known quantities, so why not. I'd take 5 and 23, give GC 5 for May and KK then try package up 23 and 33 to get something higher.

All those flags were initially built around the players they drafted - with priority picks helping - prior to 2018.

Roughy, Franklin, Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell, Rioli, Birchall etc.

Then they started trading out of weak drafts to get Burgoyne, Gibson, Gunston etc to fill the gaps. But they still needed Isaac Smith and Brad Hill, so you have to keep some decent picks.

There's not a lot of evidence the Hawks trading post 2015 will work. They won't go down the ladder but will need to find some great players with later picks to stay up. They've found a couple of good ones - Sicily and Hardwick with later picks. Time will tell if they can do it again. Dealing pick 10 for Mitchell and a late pick for Scully is wise. Selling the farm for O'Meara and Shiel maybe not.

We have a young core a bit like the Hawks in 2008, maybe not as good which isn't a knock on us but just a statement of how good those young Hawks were. So I definitely think we are in trade in mode. But we need some good draft picks too!

The other thing the Hawks did really well between 09-13 was trade out the right type of players - they said goodbye to Gilham, Campbell Brown, Tom Murphy, Clinton Young, Mark Williams - all guys who were overrated and injury prone and got value for them. Are Watts, Tyson and Hogan the right guys to trade out? I think they are.