20 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

There's a bunch of outraged posters in the first 15 pages of this thread who claimed emphatically that Hogan was settled and going nowhere, so there was no point in continuing with the thread.

Certainly come around to bite a few on the bum

I thought at the time Hogan was settled and wouldn’t go. I don’t think I was emphatic about it, it’s just what I thought.

I did comment about the stupid tone in the “trade Hogan” movement when they popped up every time we lost. I also didn’t think the club would actively seek a trade, based on the picture that seemed apparent to me at the time, however the picture looked pretty different by the end.

My bum is fine, thanks for asking.

I can’t begin to understand losing a parent and having cancer. Maybe if I went through those things at 22 I would have a very different perspective on life. 

But I don’t want footballers at our club who are so readily willing to give up success. Hogan clearly is not motivated by premierships. So Freo are a perfect fit. 

 

10 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Hogan clearly is not motivated by premierships.

Jeez I feel this is an insensitive comment.

He is prioritising his well being at this particular juncture in his life, and that includes 'going home' for all the wellbeing that move will give him, whilst he is still pursuing a career in the industry that he can command a great salary in. 

Also, the league is so tight, that Freo could comfortably make finals within the next 3 years (as could any team bar Carlton)...in which case they're in the premiership window to use common vernacular.

I think it is such a reductionist statement.

20 minutes ago, Jaded said:

 

But I don’t want footballers at our club who are so readily willing to give up success. Hogan clearly is not motivated by premierships. So Freo are a perfect fit. 

I’m sure all players want to be a part of a premiership side. But all players are not solely motivated by this or else there would be no players left at bottom 8 sides. Hogan has “ given up success” because of a higher motivation, which would have made the decision to go so much harder. 

But as soon as it was evident Hogan could not be 100% invested in the MFC, then he had to be traded. Goody would have seen to that.

7 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

But as soon as it was evident Hogan could not be 100% invested in the MFC, then he had to be traded. Goody would have seen to that.

And that’s the crux of the matter.

11 hours ago, Damo said:

Thats because Roos said you will be better in the back line. Howe didnt like to hear that. So after 3 months in the forward line at the Pies, guess where he was shifted to?

There was a moment at the end of the GF when Westcoast almost scored the slam dunk goal to seal the game, and Jeremy arrived late, knowing they where done and his look of anguish was so heartfelt I almost forgave him for leaving... almost. 

Then the Eagles won and I laughed at how sweetly cruel the footy gods can be...

On 10/19/2018 at 6:06 PM, Demonland said:

 

Did we get one picture of him smiling during his 5 years at the Dees?

There was always something about Hogan for mine. Don't think he ever put in the really hard yards to be the best he could be. Like Brayshaw doing his 100x100m sprints on Xmas day. Or Gawn or Oliver's transformation.

He seems a bit Watts like although not as bad. Footy isn't everything to Jesse. Fair enough I guess.  It's interesting how a lot of supremely talented juniors don't necessarily have the drive to be elite. Hogan IMO is a terrific player but won't ever reach his 'ceiling'. 

I suspect the club aren't unhappy with his departure given we have used it to fix some holes on the list..

4 hours ago, pitmaster said:

....playing footsies with Ross Lyon 12 months ago FCS....

I don't see this as a problem. In the employment world this happens all the time even if someone is fully invested in their current role. 

With a maximum 12 year career,  and only 2-3 choices/opportunities to maximize both financial outcomes and personal happiness,  and with a small industry with only 18 potential employers nation wide,  I'd be surprised if these conversations weren't happening. 

9 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

He seems a bit Watts like although not as bad. Footy isn't everything to Jesse. Fair enough I guess.  It's interesting how a lot of supremely talented juniors don't necessarily have the drive to be elite. Hogan IMO is a terrific player but won't ever reach his 'ceiling'. 

This is exactly my thoughts seems to be interested in living somewhere and being around family and mates rather than playing finals and winning a premiership which is why u play footy  

Says a lot. 

Glad he is gone as we won’t have any distractions next season of will he won’t he crap. 

Edited October 21, 20186 yr by DemonOX

45 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

 

There was always something about Hogan for mine. Don't think he ever put in the really hard yards to be the best he could be. Like Brayshaw doing his 100x100m sprints on Xmas day. Or Gawn or Oliver's transformation.

He seems a bit Watts like although not as bad. Footy isn't everything to Jesse. Fair enough I guess.  It's interesting how a lot of supremely talented juniors don't necessarily have the drive to be elite. Hogan IMO is a terrific player but won't ever reach his 'ceiling'. 

A bit unfair.  After a tough 2017 he presented in 2018 at 100kg and ran a low 6min 2km time trial.  You don’t do that by gorging on Pavlova over Christmas.

As much as I was bullish on Hogan, I think we will be a better team overall in 2019 and don’t risk losing Weid now.  I’m also happy he’s at Freo because at WC he has the attributes to be a lot better than Darling, but at Freo I suspect he’ll get more frustrated than he did at Melbourne...

43 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

He seems a bit Watts like although not as bad. Footy isn't everything to Jesse. Fair enough I guess.  It's interesting how a lot of supremely talented juniors don't necessarily have the drive to be elite. Hogan IMO is a terrific player but won't ever reach his 'ceiling'. 

 

35 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

This is exactly my thoughts seems to be interested in living somewhere and being around family and mates rather than playing finals and winning a premiership which is why u play footy  

 Says a lot. 

Sounds like a few people on here are trying to con themselves. A bit like jilted lovers.

Hogan wasn't really that good after all, not part of the team, didn't do the hard yards, doesn't play well in the big games...

In this case I prefer to look at the glass half full approach, we traded out an exceptionally talented kid who didn't want to be with us and in doing so we came away with a better balanced list.

Hogan hasn't had a clear run at it since starting with us, back, father, cancer, foot. The only thing that will hold him back now is injury or the like.

I'm sure he isn't going to Freo with thoughts of playing with a perennial cellar dweller.

They will be a lot better than given credit for and with a fit list will be around mid table to possible finals next season.

There biggest problem is going to be the go home factor with some of their kids and I hope we are into them...

On 10/18/2018 at 12:30 PM, pitmaster said:

Like many others here I am OK with this trade, although 12 months ago I would have been appalled.

Hoges has much more to offer but clearly we were faced with a player who was determined to go home. Weideman showed enough for us to take a punt on him and TMac supported by Jake M and maybe Frisch to go back to attack as our forward structure so that we could let Hoges go.

We at least got a monster defender for our trouble and if KadeK comes up trumps it's been a pretty reasonable return. Well done to the footy department in difficult circumstances.

Hoges farewell message showed some class too.

On another note, I don't actually think Hoges has done himself any onfield favours. Ross Lyon is not a coach that fosters much loyalty or confidence. Has all the warmth and charisma of a tiger snake.

Weid played 2 good finals and was great to see given Jesses departure.  Alas 2 gamnes is not enough for me.

Garlett has stopped playing good footy and another biug scorer in Kent has gone.

Its not enough to hope Tmac kicks all our goals. 1 gun frwd and an unproven one wont help us win a flag.

God forbid Tmac misses some of thhe season again.

May is a good player but not a replacement for Hogan.

Forwards win matches not defenders.

Yes JH was always going home but the Mfc

must find more goal kickers to make a GF.

5 hours ago, Jaded said:

I can’t begin to understand losing a parent and having cancer. Maybe if I went through those things at 22 I would have a very different perspective on life. 

But I don’t want footballers at our club who are so readily willing to give up success. Hogan clearly is not motivated by premierships. So Freo are a perfect fit. 

Players motivated by playing in flags is terrible for the league. Dogs, Tigers and Pies have shown every team should be a chance to win a flag within 3 years. Melbourne are more equipped than Freo now but not necessarily in 3 years if they do things right. If Fyfe, Hogan, Cerra and Pearce can be Dusty, Riewoldt, Cotchin and Rance then why not? 

Hogan didn’t leave purely because he was unhappy here. In fact I think he had a good off field life here. He said he wanted to leave because his Footy was suffering in Melbourne due to his mental demons.

He was going to struggle to win a premiership for us (and therefore with us) playing at 70% of his potential. Playing at 100% for Freo gives him a far better chance of personal success and to drive team success. 

Moving because you know you aren’t comfortable and aren’t performing to your best isn’t a non winner move to me. It’s taking ownership 

47 minutes ago, Wollongong Demon said:

Weid played 2 good finals and was great to see given Jesses departure.  Alas 2 gamnes is not enough for me.

Garlett has stopped playing good footy and another biug scorer in Kent has gone.

Its not enough to hope Tmac kicks all our goals. 1 gun frwd and an unproven one wont help us win a flag.

God forbid Tmac misses some of thhe season again.

May is a good player but not a replacement for Hogan.

Forwards win matches not defenders.

Yes JH was always going home but the Mfc

must find more goal kickers to make a GF.

McGovern made the match saving play and Barrass was great. Darling played 1 good quarter and Kennedy played well but his most important stuff was largely getting on the end of smart up field work. A midfielder kicked the game winning goal. 

We need to replace Garlett but big goal kicker Dean Kent is a good laugh 

2 hours ago, Watson11 said:

A bit unfair.  After a tough 2017 he presented in 2018 at 100kg and ran a low 6min 2km time trial.  You don’t do that by gorging on Pavlova over Christmas.

As much as I was bullish on Hogan, I think we will be a better team overall in 2019 and don’t risk losing Weid now.  I’m also happy he’s at Freo because at WC he has the attributes to be a lot better than Darling, but at Freo I suspect he’ll get more frustrated than he did at Melbourne...

Yeah, I didn't say that.

But there is a difference between those who have natural talent and those with the drive that go along with it. Jesse is a great player as I said but I have the feeling he will never reach the upper echelon - which he could given his talent - because other things are more important to him.

 

2 hours ago, rjay said:

 

Sounds like a few people on here are trying to con themselves. A bit like jilted lovers.

Hogan wasn't really that good after all, not part of the team, didn't do the hard yards, doesn't play well in the big games...

In this case I prefer to look at the glass half full approach, we traded out an exceptionally talented kid who didn't want to be with us and in doing so we came away with a better balanced list.

Hogan hasn't had a clear run at it since starting with us, back, father, cancer, foot. The only thing that will hold him back now is injury or the like.

I'm sure he isn't going to Freo with thoughts of playing with a perennial cellar dweller.

 They will be a lot better than given credit for and with a fit list will be around mid table to possible finals next season.

There biggest problem is going to be the go home factor with some of their kids and I hope we are into them...

I didn't say that. You have trouble reading by the sounds of things. Jesse is a great player but he will never reach the upper echelon IMO because he doesn't appear to have the character traits and drive required. Other things are seemingly more important in his life. It just an opinion but he will never reach the heights of a Matthew Pavlich.

13 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Yeah, I didn't say that.

But there is a difference between those who have natural talent and those with the drive that go along with it. Jesse is a great player as I said but I have the feeling he will never reach the upper echelon - which he could given his talent - because other things are more important to him.

 

You may be right about how good he turns out and only time will tell.  But my point was he is driven enough to be elite for a 2km time trial which at 100kg means he works damn hard, all while having significant off field issues.  I don’t think we maximised his talent the way we kick inside 50.  I don’t think Freo will either, but he’s good enough to be a consistent 40+ goal player for them. If their young mids thrive who knows. If he was at WC with Gaff, Hurn, Shuey, etc kicking to him he could have been a superstar.  Glad that is not happening.

The other thing about the trade for May, is next year May could have gone anywhere as an FA, and Mahoney etc knew we were the only team in play this year.  If we waited, it’s possible May would have come on bigger $.  So JM got the deal done and probably saved salary cap.  I’m hoping his deal was front loaded, so that in years 3 onwards we have room to retain our current 20-23 year olds.  I think it’s likely the FD have done it very well.

2019 season....

Freo will beat up on weaker sides at home and Hogan will kick 5. He’ll be the star that the club didn’t do enough to keep. 

Freo get challenged by stronger sides at home or when on the road and Hogan fails to impact the game.  But it will be the midfields fault and Ross Lyon’s gameplay, not playing to Hogan’s strengths. If he stayed at the Dees he would have no where to hide, inability to perform would be seen as exactly that, playing for Freo gives him an out. 

Once in a generation players(forwards) can take the big pack marks, kicks goals without having to be 20-30 metres out directly in front, kick goals from out side 50, kick them when the game is in the balance and dominate the big games. 

 

Broke the news to my 6 year old niece last night that Jesse has left melbourne after she wanted to name her toy puppy teddy after him. She actually burst into tears and said no I don't want Jesse to leave. I want him to play for melbourne. 

She cheered up a little bit after we told her jonsey and max were still there. 

7 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

 

Jeez I feel this is an insensitive comment.

He is prioritising his well being at this particular juncture in his life, and that includes 'going home' for all the wellbeing that move will give him, whilst he is still pursuing a career in the industry that he can command a great salary in. 

Also, the league is so tight, that Freo could comfortably make finals within the next 3 years (as could any team bar Carlton)...in which case they're in the premiership window to use common vernacular.

I think it is such a reductionist statement.

Jaded's comment had a context. One you plainly ignored or dont get. I.e  The reference was to his Football. He IS after an AFL player of particular ability ( the realisation is another thing ). In that light he has decided he'd rather play footy at "home" with some "mates" in front of 'family"

yep they're the three things I always look for in an elite player.

The absolute irony is that the whole idea of ( Mfc ) Esprit de Corps  IS ...playing with mates, who are your football family and the MCG is HOME.

So his priorities are his  and his in kind, but for us they're threes strikes he's out.

Edited October 21, 20186 yr by beelzebub

1 hour ago, dees189227 said:

Broke the news to my 6 year old niece last night that Jesse has left melbourne after she wanted to name her toy puppy teddy after him. She actually burst into tears and said no I don't want Jesse to leave. I want him to play for melbourne. 

She cheered up a little bit after we told her jonsey and max were still there. 

if it will make her feel better you can tell her that I also broke into tears and  said no i dont want Jesse to leave ..But my dog is named Chunk and not Jesse

3 hours ago, Wollongong Demon said:

Forwards win matches not defenders.

Multiple scoring options win big matches. 

3 hours ago, Wollongong Demon said:

Weid played 2 good finals and was great to see given Jesses departure.  Alas 2 gamnes is not enough for me.

Garlett has stopped playing good footy and another biug scorer in Kent has gone.

Its not enough to hope Tmac kicks all our goals. 1 gun frwd and an unproven one wont help us win a flag.

God forbid Tmac misses some of thhe season again.

May is a good player but not a replacement for Hogan.

Forwards win matches not defenders.

Yes JH was always going home but the Mfc

must find more goal kickers to make a GF.

I guess it's really hard to get over our long-lasting depression from a few years ago.

3 hours ago, Wollongong Demon said:

Weid played 2 good finals and was great to see given Jesses departure.  Alas 2 gamnes is not enough for me.

He also played very well against the Giants in round 23 and was good against West Coast in round 22.

Weideman averaged the 11th most contested marks for the season for players with at least 10 games.

It might not be enough for you, but it's enough for me.  He's 21 and miles off his peak.  His upside is enormous.

 

4 hours ago, Wollongong Demon said:

Weid played 2 good finals and was great to see given Jesses departure.  Alas 2 gamnes is not enough for me.

The Weed accounted for himself quite well. Arguably it is to be seen whether he  will prove the real McCoy  but from the lips of at least one Melb Coach...hes going to be a gun.  He has a lot of upside..if what we've seen is scratching the surface, I think it bodes well.

Garlett has stopped playing good footy and another biug scorer in Kent has gone.

And yet we still kick some pretty fair scores dont we....see where I'm going here ??

Its not enough to hope Tmac kicks all our goals. 1 gun frwd and an unproven one wont help us win a flag.

No..In fact the Club isnt relying on anyone at all...it's a team game with a team effort to goal. It's actually the hardest style of game to counter.....bit like playing "Whack the gopher !!"

God forbid Tmac misses some of thhe season again.

Wouldnt be ideal, for sure. But we didnt have him for a few games this season too.We found a way. History suggests he's fairly injury resilient. Again...on any given day you only have to score more than the other blokes ( we'll revisit this in a sec ) 

May is a good player but not a replacement for Hogan.

No..Fullbacks often dont do well at CHF...I'll grant you that.  But newsflash....hes not meant as a replacement

Forwards win matches not defenders.

Now here is an interesting item.  teams , the good ones, win games by obviously scoring more than the other guys....but good teams score as teams. Forwards seldom win games off their own boot, not unless they can be in about 3 positions across the ground all at the same time. What DEFENDERS can do...is stop a game being lost !!..That's pretty much just as important as winning them actually. This really is the case in close games/finals etc.  Where your opponent is throwing everything in desperation at your defence. Defenders that can hold their nerve CAN win you a game by denying them one. Its a bit on an abstract concept....take you time

Yes JH was always going home but the Mfc

must find more goal kickers to make a GF.

Well...we already do..memo not on your desk ??