Farewell Jesse Hogan

[Demon Disciple 12,122]

1 minute ago, whitito said:

I simply don’t understand why many on here are so nonchalant about a flat out 50 plus goal kicker potentially leaving. 

 

This is kid can play.

The draft picks might.....

We're not after draft picks, we're after May. I'd take Hogan over May any day of the week though.

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,775]

2 minutes ago, whitito said:

I simply don’t understand why many on here are so nonchalant about a flat out 50 plus goal kicker potentially leaving. 

 

This is kid can play.

The draft picks might.....

Question that is equally relevant for the Footy Department

[Ted Lasso 19,514]

seems to be getting around that even within freo people are butting heads over this. Bell claiming our asking price is too high. 

There is zero value to this deal from our point of view if it doesn’t result in us landing may. Simple as that. Basically any deal that gets that done I suspect we would accept 

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Their logic is rubbish, though.

Lachie Neale is worth 2 first rounders, but Hogan, a 23 year old key forward with 150 goals under his belt, isn't?

Fair suck of the sav, Belly.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,823]

41 minutes ago, Tram 74 said:

Kelly, even before the Hogan fiasco, stated he would not entertain going to Freo.

Which would completely contradict the stuff the Eagles have been banging on about all week with respects to 'it's no the go home factor with Kelly...some people have genuine circumstances and Kelly is one of those...'

If Kelly reslly does needs to get back home that urgently that he can't see out his contact with Geelong, the he should/will entertain a genuine offer from Freo.  That said, I think associating 'genuine offer' and Freo together in one sentence these days is an oxymoron, so scratch that theory.

[binman 42,924]

11 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

Hate to be somewhat of a bubble burster, but if we all really valued and rated Hogan, we’d all be celebrating from this outcome 

instead we’re all bashing Freo 

Not everyone. As I posted as soon as I heard the news, I could not be happier. Fair dinkum this kid is a total gun. One of the most talented players I have seen at the dees.

His output is all people should be worrying about. And his numbers as re the equal of the best forwards at the same age. I mean I can barely believe dees fans of all people querying that.

Off field Schmoff field. Look at what the kid had had to deal with in the last 6 years.

Leaves his close knit family (and his ill dad - his best mate) to go to the other side of the country to a club in total disarray. At 17.

Has to play a season for Casey in the vfl (and dominates) before making his senior debut as the number one forward. At 18.

Meets the high expectations and then some, averaging 2 goals a game. 

Deals with the death of his dad and then soon after, as he is grappling with mortality, is diagnosed with cancer.

Jesus. Who wouldn't have some 'issues'.

But issues notwithstanding, all the while trains hard and performs on game day. For our club. Can't believe some of the grief he is getting in this thread. Made worse by the fact that anyone posting here is a dedicated fan. 

 

[adonski 12,113]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Their logic is rubbish, though.

Lachie Neale is worth 2 first rounders, but Hogan, a 23 year old key forward with 150 goals under his belt, isn't?

Fair suck of the sav, Belly.

I’ve heard Freo fans wanting Brisbane to trade Beams to Collingwood for pick 18, then to package up 5 & 18 for Neale.

In what world is the gap between Neale and Beams that big?

Edited October 12, 2018 by adonski

[whitito 187]

3 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

We're not after draft picks, we're after May. I'd take Hogan over May any day of the week though.

I get we are after May but I’m not sold. Not the greatest place to ply your trade on the GC but ..I’d take my chances on Hogan over May

[binman 42,924]

7 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

We're not after draft picks, we're after May. I'd take Hogan over May any day of the week though.

Agree

Edited October 12, 2018 by binman

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,823]

5 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

We're not after draft picks, we're after May. I'd take Hogan over May any day of the week though.

Which says to me that Hogan is really worth May plus some decent spare change at the draft table.

[KingDingAling 3,757]

3 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

We're not after draft picks, we're after May. I'd take Hogan over May any day of the week though.

Same. That is why I am glad this deal has fallen through. Hogan is a far better player than May, and has far greater upside than May. Thank god Freo have stuffed this deal. We probably would've give pick 5 for May, which essentially means we'd get May and 23 for Hogan. That would be a poor result. Hogan is worth far more than that. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Plus, Peter Bell said that they 'cannot meet our trade demands'.

He's making out as if we are asking for four first rounders, three seconds, two thirds and a partridge in a pear tree.

It's rubbish.  What we've said we will take, which is the pick they get for Neale and #23, is more then reasonable and easily doable from their end.  I don't know what Bell has been drinking but the bloke needs to get off it, and quickly.

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

2 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Which would completely contradict the stuff the Eagles have been banging on about all week with respects to 'it's no the go home factor with Kelly...some people have genuine circumstances and Kelly is one of those...'

If Kelly reslly does needs to get back home that urgently that he can't see out his contact with Geelong, the he should/will entertain a genuine offer from Freo.  That said, I think associating 'genuine offer' and Freo together in one sentence these days is an oxymoron, so scratch that theory.

That smokescreen offer was clearly made from Freo with an understanding that it would be rejected so Geelong can play hardball with WCE for the compassion story that is being put forward.

For mine, it’s really underhanded, as they’re getting invovled in the mechanics of trades that they’re not a part of, and of course it’s a small small industry

[dworship 3,342]

47 minutes ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Of course, I'm not saying that at all

But Freo low balling and then pulling out is something we clearly didn't forsee when we publicly started discussing the possibility of Jesse leaving.

If we had then surely we would have played things differently and trotted out the "required player, under contract, has not officially requested a trade" lines publicly until an appropriate offer was made/accepted.

Anyhow, after p'$$ing everyone off, my main point is that I don't think it'll be plain sailing/happy camping for 2019 after all this.

Hopefully someone will sit Jesse down without his Manager and explain the first rules of negotiation.

1. What are the needs of the other side?

2. Always look for the "Blue" Do I need to explain what the "Red" is!  Take a bow Dorks!

3. Do your due diligence eg pressure points, hopes vs wants.

4. Only seriously low ball and potentially insult the the other party when having addressed the above 3 and being in a position of power and even then do it with grace and honesty.

5. Never give your hand away by making things public until you are sure of the outcome.

6. It's ok to withhold, it's not ok to mislead. (Caveat: Unless you absolutely know you won't get caught out)

7. The best and easiest negotiations are Win/Win

I could go on but by now you might see that there is one side that has known what they are doing and if JH doesn't recognise that then I will be happy to see him cut lose next year. As a friend often says "You can't put brains in monuments".

Disclaimer: Yes, I have significant training and experience in this area and I have had negotiations break down and people walk away.     Never have I had a feeling that the people walking away didn't think I was not to be trusted or that our time had been wasted.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by dworship
Spelling

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,823]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Not everyone. As I posted as soon as I heard the news, I could not be happier. Fair dinkum this kid is a total gun. One of the most talented players I have seen at the dees.

His output is all people should be worrying about. And his numbers as re the equal of the best forwards at the same age. I mean I can barely believe dees fans of all people querying that.

Off field Schmoff field. Look at what the kid had had to deal with in the last 6 years.

Leaves his close knit family (and his ill dad - his best mate) to go to the other side of the country to a club in total disarray. At 17.

Has to play a season for Casey in the vfl (and dominates) before making his senior debut as the number one forward. At 18.

Meets the high expectations and then some, averaging 2 goals a game. 

Deals with the death of his dad and then soon after, as he is grappling with mortality, is diagnosed with cancer.

Jesus. Who wouldn't have some 'issues'.

But issues notwithstanding, all the while trains hard and performs on game day. For our club. Can't believe some of the grief he is getting in this thread. Made worse by the fact that anyone posting here is a dedicated fan. 

 

Agree Binman.

The main reasons I'm not celebrating this are:

1. The trade period isn't over yet, so it ain't done and dusted that he's not moving this year;

2.  Would really be something to celebrate if after this (hopefully failed episode) he signed on for another 2 years on top of 2019.

I'm not in the boat of thinking May would be the greatest thing since sliced bread for the MFC either.  May had a pretty ordanary year as well and if he were to come to the MFC, I think he'd actually have to lift his training ethic to that of Max Gawn's to get a game here.  I fully expect that Oscar will continue to get bigger and end up something near the strength of Tommy, plus a few cm in height.  May would be good if we could trade for him at a reasonable price - isn't he actually a FA after 2019?  That's when we should strike Richmond style.

[Jack7 528]

Mahoney will cave again and accept pick 11 and a second round,guaranteed!!!

 

Was he seriously going to pay pick 5 for an undisciplined and regularly suspended 27 year old that had 10 kicked on him by Jack Riewoldt?

 

Bend over Josh,okay Pete

[Ted Lasso 19,514]

7 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Plus, Peter Bell said that they 'cannot meet our trade demands'.

He's making out as if we are asking for four first rounders, three seconds, two thirds and a partridge in a pear tree.

It's rubbish.  What we've said we will take, which is the pick they get for Neale and #23, is more then reasonable and easily doable from their end.  I don't know what Bell has been drinking but the bloke needs to get off it, and quickly.

We’ve shown we are happy to accept unders or pay overs to get deals done. We don’t muck around. 5-23 to me is slight unders for hogan but we’d happily taken, bring in May and move on 

[monoccular 17,427]

24 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

Just be patient guys. This will work itself out, couldn’t be surer that Hogan will be wearing purple next year 

Mixing paints, red and blue turns purple. ?

 

[dworship 3,342]

18 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

We're not after draft picks, we're after May. I'd take Hogan over May any day of the week though.

Someone mentioned the word "pragmatic" eons ago, that is exactly the point.

We are not after May because we don't wont JH. We want May if we lose Hogan.

If there is a way to pick up May and keep Hogan then ....happy days!

[sisso 2,580]

If either side caves now they will look weak as p!ss....who is willing to do that?

[Tony Tea 2,809]

One party offers too low, the other counters too high. Bargaining 101. The next step is a narrowing of difference, not one side spitting the dummy.

[binman 42,924]

9 minutes ago, Jack7 said:

Mahoney will cave again and accept pick 11 and a second round,guaranteed!!!

 

Was he seriously going to pay pick 5 for an undisciplined and regularly suspended 27 year old that had 10 kicked on him by Jack Riewoldt?

 

Bend over Josh,okay Pete

Bingo.

[layzie 33,796]

3 minutes ago, dworship said:

If there is a way to pick up May and keep Hogan then ....happy days!

Just can’t see it unfortunately. One hinged on the other by the sound of it.

[Neitz the Great 555]

I am sure this will get done. 

Freo are all over the shop but they'll pull their heads in due to the weight of the external noise

Hogan for 5 + 23 

5 + 23 to the crows for 8 + 13

8 to GC for May 

And go fish for what we do with 13.

[dworship 3,342]

4 minutes ago, Tony Tea said:

One party offers too low, the other counters too high. Bargaining 101. The next step is a narrowing of difference, not one side spitting the dummy.

Very simplistic.