Maybe I'm a pessimist - I think we've only got 4 players that can step up and turn a game - and 'drag the rest of the team along' -  those that would be willing and have capacity to do so.

Gawn, Oliver, TMAC and Viney when fit.

It might be a reductionists way of looking at it - but I still don't think we've got the cattle at this point in time....with all due respect to the 40-60 game players.

Again the off season will be exciting to see what/if we can get some silk...

 

 

Edited August 14, 20187 yr by Danelska

Those four show good promise, but none are in the league of Selwood, Hodge etc who stop the tide then turn it. Oliver will be able to and I think a player like a Lever, Hibberd can really help as well when they are on song they cut the momentum of other teams.

How many do other sides have? I would be surprised if you named more than 4 for most including the premier. The problem is one of our isn’t there yet and one of ours is constantly off the park with a foot. I would argue in game Brayshaw can influence more than Gawn. Gawn is usually on or off and not usually the difference  between shifting momentum. 

3 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

How many do other sides have? I would be surprised if you named more than 4 for most including the premier. The problem is one of our isn’t there yet and one of ours is constantly off the park with a foot. I would argue in game Brayshaw can influence more than Gawn. Gawn is usually on or off and not usually the difference  between shifting momentum. 

As I was writing the post I was thinking about it for other clubs also - so perhaps it's a moot point anyway? 

32 minutes ago, Danelska said:

Maybe I'm a pessimist - I think we've only got 4 players that can step up and turn a game - and 'drag the rest of the team along' -  those that would be willing and have capacity to do so.

Gawn, Oliver, TMAC and Viney when fit.

It might be a reductionists way of looking at it - but I still don't think we've got the cattle at this point in time....with all due respect to the 40-60 game players.

Again the off season will be exciting to see what/if we can get some silk...

 

 

Can those players eventually emulate Martin, Cotchin, J Riewoldt, Rance or Selwood, Ablett, Tom Hawkins, Dangerfield...... that's the worry for me, we just don't know yet but I can't see them reaching those lofty heights yet. A good discussion to have in 2 years though and with Vineys injury, he may not be the player we thought he'd become. Those opposition players stand up in big games consistently, currently we are flat track bullies.

Edited August 14, 20187 yr by MSFebey

A bit of a surprise packet in this, especially in the second half of this year, seems to be James Harmes. When we're down, he consistently seems to dig in and try to break lines, throwing himself at tackles etc. Not always successfully, probably due to a ceiling on his skill level, but he does have a go. Tried hard on Sunday.

13 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

How many do other sides have? I would be surprised if you named more than 4 for most including the premier. The problem is one of our isn’t there yet and one of ours is constantly off the park with a foot. I would argue in game Brayshaw can influence more than Gawn. Gawn is usually on or off and not usually the difference  between shifting momentum. 

Agree on Brayshaw

Has been really consistent over the last 6 weeks and always seems to be in the  right spot to do something to drive the team forward

We don't have 1.
Not 1.

Can list a bunch that go straight into their holes when the heat comes on though.

I think we've all been waiting for Petracca to step up into this category, but he's disappointed so far.  He has the tools, but maybe lacks the fitness right now, .......... or is he just a tease, and unlikely to meet the lofty expectations we had for him early on?  I'm leaning (slightly) towards the latter.

Edited August 14, 20187 yr by Deeoldfart
Punctuation

Yep , a tease.
Doesn't have the speed or tank to be a real influence.

7 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

I think we've all been waiting for Petracca to step up into this category, but he's disappointed so far.  He has the tools, but maybe lacks the fitness right now, .......... or is he just a tease, and unlikely to meet the lofty expectations we had for him early on?  I'm leaning (slightly) towards the latter.

He's had a better month though as a mid rotating through the half forward line, but you're right - he hasn't really become that X-factor type of player we hoped he would be.

I think the issue for Petracca is where his best position is.  Does he become a full time midfielder, or do we look to utilise his strength and marking ability out of the goal square?  He could be a nightmare match up for a defence if given the chance.  He has an excellent leap on him thanks to his basketball days that allows him to jump out of the reach of opposing defenders.

Either way, when we find the right position for him then I think we'll see him become the player we hoped he would be.

The most successful teams need only one. Think of Paul Kell (swans), Voss, Hird, Gary jnr, Hodge. Garry would often go on the ball to fill the role for us. They need a combination of determination, leadership and skill and the ability to inject themselves into the game at a critical moment. Remember Voss monstering a filth player in the centre in one of the grand finals? Changed the game.

So far, we have no-one at this level and I cannot see any young player stepping up at this stage. While most can demonstrate determination and skill, there is still a leadership deficit because they are so young and inexperienced as leaders. It takes time and maturity for leaders to evolve. Be patient.

In the meantime, the emerging dispersed ability within our team can be a potent substitute and can overcome deficiencies in leadership. Let's develop the players so that they all influence games.

 

Not a name you’d expect to feature as a ‘ follow me type of player’ but in my opinion Melksham has the ability to turn a tide with his precise kicking for goal or passing.

Often when we struggle with delivery going forward the Snake bobs up with a goal from nowhere and is really good at lowering the eyes. Maybe more of a ‘Game Breaker’ forward of centre. 

11 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

He's had a better month though as a mid rotating through the half forward line, but you're right - he hasn't really become that X-factor type of player we hoped he would be.

I think the issue for Petracca is where his best position is.  Does he become a full time midfielder, or do we look to utilise his strength and marking ability out of the goal square?  He could be a nightmare match up for a defence if given the chance.  He has an excellent leap on him thanks to his basketball days that allows him to jump out of the reach of opposing defenders.

Either way, when we find the right position for him then I think we'll see him become the player we hoped he would be.

Agreed I think Trac needs a more defined position and role to give him some continuity from week to week. I watch him get lost on the wings often.

It's going to be difficult doing that thought for the rest of this season. With no Viney and now Hogan he'll still be rotating through the middle to cover for some of Viney's time there and now more time up forward I would think sans Hogan.

The idea of Trac one out in the forward line in a one on one is perfect. But that opportunity just doesn't happen much these days. Even if you push all your other forwards up the oppositions defense stay back with zoning tactics to fill the space. Is there any way to counter this again so we could have a one on one which teams like Richmond and others seem to still get?

25 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

We don't have 1.
Not 1.

Can list a bunch that go straight into their holes when the heat comes on though.

Viney is that player for us but we need him on the park and fit. 

It can develop with the younger players.  Cotchin used to absolutely go missing in big games when he was younger but is unbelievable now.

I also think Brayshaw shows really positive signs of being a game influencer. Wins consecutive contests/clearances and has confidence in traffic to burst forward with momentum and penetration.

Edited August 14, 20187 yr by Yung Blood

26 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Not a name you’d expect to feature as a ‘ follow me type of player’ but in my opinion Melksham has the ability to turn a tide with his precise kicking for goal or passing.

Often when we struggle with delivery going forward the Snake bobs up with a goal from nowhere and is really good at lowering the eyes. Maybe more of a ‘Game Breaker’ forward of centre. 

Love a bit of left field thinking, good post

Our biggest challenge as a group is to change during quarters.

sydney do it well , it takes an experienced head like lewis to call it and slow play play tempo  or help implement a change in structure . 

Who ever can see things unfolding the quickest and react will be the most valuable .

 

The only player currently in our team who has proven to be a match winner in the past, is Tom McDonald. 

Nobody in our team fills me with any confidence that they can stand up and pull us over the line in big games, least of all our older leaders.

However I see Oliver as a potential match winner going forward, especially with his ability to play out of the goal square and kick goals, Dusty style. I also think that Lever will be one who will change matches as he matures and stays (hopefully!) injury free.

 

Edited August 15, 20187 yr by Jaded

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

He could be a nightmare match up for a defence if given the chance.  He has an excellent leap on him

We need to exploit this - out of congestion he has the time to think about his role.

While I agree with this I do think it is extremely difficult to find these types of players. If you have 1 you're doing pretty well. 

I think Viney can be this guy if healthy. But as important as it is to have this talisman that can turn the tide we need to make sure that across the board we have guys who can step up that 5% in clutch moments of a game. 

1 hour ago, MSFebey said:

Love a bit of left field thinking, good post

We might need some left field thinking by the coaches this week Febes. In baseball terms, we are 1 out at the bottom of the 9th and we need to bring a pinch-hitter or two in. 

Don't worry we have them but they are all the younger brigade

Clarrie - he like Diesel will do it without a lot of fanfare just makes things look easy.

Brayshaw- just starting to get near the point when he'll consistently put patches together of winning vital clearances and changing games regularly like we did against the Crows a few weeks ago in the 3rd

Viney - we know what he can do and his influence but just need him on the park.

Gawn - his tap work is immense and when Brayshaw, Viney and Clarrie are all in there consistently you will see Max having a big influence 

Salem - may surprise some but his disposal is elite and injuries to others have forced us to rotate him through the middle a lot less than we would like

Trac - has the potential and put a decent month together. Like others has been affected by injuries forcing us to play him through the middle more often then we would like

5 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

He's had a better month though as a mid rotating through the half forward line, but you're right - he hasn't really become that X-factor type of player we hoped he would be.

I think the issue for Petracca is where his best position is.  Does he become a full time midfielder, or do we look to utilise his strength and marking ability out of the goal square?  He could be a nightmare match up for a defence if given the chance.  He has an excellent leap on him thanks to his basketball days that allows him to jump out of the reach of opposing defenders.

Either way, when we find the right position for him then I think we'll see him become the player we hoped he would be.

Come on 'Wise' you're getting sucked back into the pack here.

He's 22 yo and has barely played 50 games...

Despite what others think I reckon he's tracking ok at the moment.

Whether he becomes X-factor or not he will still be a very good player.

Just a little aside, I believe part of our game plan is to set the ball up close in to goal.

There are a number of occasions where I would prefer Trac to have a ping from around 50 but he does the team thing.