POSTMATCH DISCUSSION - Round 18

[titan_uranus 24,628]

20 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

It is an entertainment based industry and while we play attractive football we don't generate the $$$$$$$ Collingwood, Richmond or West Coast do. So we get what we get.

Not sure what you're getting at here, some sort of conspiracy theory?

The last two times we've been on prime time (Port and now Geelong), the general commentary about the game was that it was one of the best of the season.

That sort of positive commentary when everyone's watching is good for us, commercially at least, going into 2019. I'd like to think the AFL and Seven are interested in scheduling more of the type of football we play in their prime time games.

[Redleg 40,209]

7 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

Did they not think of putting Tom McDonald behind the ball when there was 40 seconds to go?

Yet another late-game coaching error that just occurred to me

I would have thought all forwards bar perhaps Spargo, would have gone back in the last minute or two, with the mids being told to keep the ball locked in the pack. Surely after so many close losses in the last two years, this should have been ingrained. Obviously not. 

[gregdemon 622]

4 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Some games you just can't walk away finding positives. The Saints game, Tigers and Hawks games earlier this season as well...

I had no problems finding positives from last night. Noone's saying we shouldn't be hurting, but I had as many texts from Cats supporters showing admiration as I did the smug ones. We'll take a HELL of a lot out of last night.

I would tell your cats mates to stick it up their arses

[Skuit 9,965]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Three losses by under a goal is just brutal.

I bet no other team has had more than one.

It is brutal.

But posters saying the club always goes to water in tight ones is over the top.

One of the losses our ruckman missed a shot from close range for the win.

The Saints wasn't really a close one. But in the genuine close one vs. Port we were reamed by the umps.

Yesterday we did indeed lose composure in the final minutes. But so did the Cats.

Watch the last two minutes of every thriller this year and all teams make poor decisions and fundamental skill errors at the manic death. And there will always be coaching and positional hindsights. Meanwhile, umpiring standards go out the window.

One team comes out on top. Mostly through some form of luck. 

 

[Redleg 40,209]

1 minute ago, Skuit said:

 

One team comes out on top. Mostly through some form of luck. 

 

We clearly have the bad kind. 

[gregdemon 622]

Is it time someone gave Scott (Geelong coach) a smack in the mouth

[Skuit 9,965]

Some of these recollections may be slightly off the mark . . .

2012 - Hawthorn v Geelong

Hawkins, who scores a bag of six or seven for the day, kicks a winning goal after the siren after the Cats run it the length of the field from the kick-in following a low percentage snap by Rioli with less than a minute to go.

But it's only crap us and our crap players who do that crap in close ones.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Skuit

[dieter 3,325]

One of the obvious deductions from this loss is that there are players who are still learning the ropes  - I remind readers that James Sicily, for example,  was a total spud till not that long ago - and there are patterns of play which  indicate a team still learning to believe in itself.

In other words, as Goodwin indicated, we are still a work in progress.

In the meantime, like all teams, we have to deal with the unjust lottery of injuries to crucial players, and, in the end, we supporters have to accept that the Demon Match Committee is still learning how to deal with some rather unacceptable facts of life, namely that some of the players we have turned to are seeing the end of their use by date - Lewis, Vince, Garlett - that some of the players we turned to in the post-Roos era have not turned into golden gooses - Bugg, Frost, Tyson come to mind - and that there is a simple fact of football life, that instant stars like Oliver are as rare as Borealis Australis, that most of them take time to find their feet, let alone learn how to run or glide and soar.

Or, as the great prophet said, I forget which one, It is what it is.

Or, as my dear Non Sport-loving Polish wife keeps reminding me, IT IS ONLY A GAME OF FOOTBALL.

( I accept that there are some out there among us who see this as grounds for divorce.) 

[Deecisive 1,709]

I don't see why we have so much anger at Goodwin, we have 3 games that we lost by a kick. If we had won those we would have been in the top 4. Would we still be calling for his head then.  I don't agree with a number of things we do with our setup, but what we do has worked pretty well so far this year, when we are on we are damn good and play attractive football. We will beat top sides playing this style, but only after some of our players mature, we perfect our game plan and rectify those things that result in junk time and soft frees/goals.

Yes, some moves Goodwin made did not come off, or were not made, or made soon enough for the likes of supporters. some did so l am happy to leave those things to the coach. Some games are won and some are lost, i see we lost this game rather than Geelong won it. we failed to capitalize on our forward entries and shots at goal I don't see that as being the coaches problem. yes, he could have moved frost on to Hawkins earlier,  but that could not guarantee that Hawkins would not have taken those marks after-all their delivered to him was pretty good. Who knows if shifting frost would not have freed up someone else to kick the goals. Trying to speculate on what could have happened is fantasy stuff.

I hope that we will make the finals, I don't see any sure-fire guarantee. I hope we can at least play 2 finals this year, not expecting us to go too far, but what is important is playing attractive football, getting more supporters and being an attractive destination team for future drafts and trades.

next couple of years are where I see our serious tilt at the premiership should happen.

 

 

 

[Pates 9,625]

Big question marks over our mental strength given the amount of times we’ve been in winning positions and let it slip. 

I almost feel like for pre-season we should go on some kind of training camp that tests the players not just physically but also mentally, pushing them to the limits. Anyone know where one of those might exist?

[deebug 1,754]

36 minutes ago, gregdemon said:

Is it time someone gave Scott (Geelong coach) a smack in the mouth

Oh Yerrrrr

[Adam The God 29,391]

3 minutes ago, Pates said:

Big question marks over our mental strength given the amount of times we’ve been in winning positions and let it slip. 

I almost feel like for pre-season we should go on some kind of training camp that tests the players not just physically but also mentally, pushing them to the limits. Anyone know where one of those might exist?

Take your mind back to 2017 and Richmond. They were a team who had failed to win any finals in multiple attempts and then in Hardwick's 8th year in charge, things finally clicked and they won the flag.

I'm not saying we'll win it this year and I'm not saying it'll take 8 years to do it either, but merely that it takes time. You don't start with an innate ability to win in clutch games. It's something that is learnt and as frustrating as that is, it does seem to be our reality right now.

[beelzebub 23,198]

Coaches , Match committees FD personnel are supposed to be 'already arrived' . Players might be a work in progress...but I don't accept that those in charge are on "L's"....if so ... it's just amateur hour all around.

If what is.... is.....is that we're incompetent in areas where you'd think elite players would just know basic footy...ie... running down a clock...ffs that's learnt as a kid...deprive the enemy.  If what is...is  coaching letting Charlie medal players far too much largesse ...if what is ...is a total mismatch in the back 50......if what is ....is having a power forward live out delusions of midfieldery ...if what is...is often having the 'hottest players of the game ' counting sheep on the pine....if what is....is selecting experiments at the business end of the season...then we'll that IS ....us

 

[640MD 3,321]

 I have a friend who knows nothing about Football  (Collingwood supporter)   But he hates Geelong, maybe he does know a little bit.   His opinion is that our coaching staff lost it by not reacting quicker  or even by not packing the back line with one or two extra players in the last two or three minutes.   Omac clearly needed help and got none.   We should have learnt !

[Coq au vin 755]

20 minutes ago, 640MD said:

 I have a friend who knows nothing about Football  (Collingwood supporter)   But he hates Geelong, maybe he does know a little bit.   His opinion is that our coaching staff lost it by not reacting quicker  or even by not packing the back line with one or two extra players in the last two or three minutes.   Omac clearly needed help and got none.   We should have learnt !

It’s not that simple for the coaches to pack the back line in the last 2 minutes. The players don’t know how much time is left on the clock. The coaches have to work it out then communicate via runners. It’s not like you can text message the players.

Edited July 22, 2018 by President Dee Trump

[Adam The God 29,391]

10 hours ago, rjay said:

Not so sure. He had his chance for that one good contest & failed.

There are many things that cost us the win but watch where Frost was when Hawkins made position to take the ball on to Toohey. He was in no mans land between where the ball was (ball watching) and Hawk giving him a good 20 to 30 meters break. By the time he realised what happened the damage was done.

That as much as anything cost us the game. If Frost was with Hawkins the ball probably doesn't go to him or if it does then maybe he (Frost) kills the contest, but there was no contest.

Frost often gets caught in no mans land, Frost often kicks to no one at best, the oppositions advantage often.

You're one of my favourite posters, mate, but you're off on this one IMO.

There's no way Frost has 7 kicked on him. He demonstrated in the small amount of time that his closing speed meant Hawkins couldn't get it out on the lead, like he had done on the slower Oscar.

Yes, Frost is still positionally unaware sometimes and his positioning contributed to the Tuohy goal, but he showed on at least 2 or 3 occasions in the time that he was on Hawkins, that he was with him for speed.

I would have made the move earlier in the night when we were getting no run off half back from Frost anyway. Allow Oscar to play on the younger opponent and play interceptor. His kicking is a lot better than Frost's as we know and that should have been the move.

[Diamond_Jim 12,359]

8 minutes ago, President Dee Trump said:

It’s not that simple for the coaches to pack the back line in the last 2 minutes. The players don’t know how much time is left on the clock. The coaches have to work it out then communicate via runners. It’s not like you can text message the players.

sorry... I have to laugh.... there are so may ways to inform players of the remaining time.... just by positioning an item on the bench differently for each of the last five minutes immediately springs to mind and there are so many others ways one could do it.

[Northern Summer 292]

8 hours ago, loges said:

Brayshaw ridden in the back, shot on goal, game over. Not paid. Gutless umpiring.

How we lost is beyond me -

• We had two chances to completely ice the game and get to a 6 goal lead, but Petracca missed a very straightforward shot trying to be too clever, and Gawn dropped a mark he should have taken in the goal square. We probably would have won by plenty had we got that 6 goal lead.
• Kennedy-Harris missing a very simple shot with 120 seconds left.
• The Petracca torpedo with 90 seconds to go when there were plenty of players sideways and backwards to kill the clock.
• Vince spoiling and not marking Geelong's kick out from our last behind.

However, like you said, Ablett pushing Brayshaw into the back with 40 seconds left was so bloody obvious and evident and right in front of the umpires. How this was missed is beyond me! The umpires did cost us the game with this.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Northern Summer

[Adam The God 29,391]

9 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

As much as l love watching Hogan when he's ON and acknowledging that he's still young, everyone has a price. If Freo offered a player of the quality of Cerra and/or a good draft pick, or another tempting trade package, we'd be crazy not to consider it. ATM I struggle to see Hogan living up to the potential. In that regard, it's disappointing so far that Weiderman hasn't grasped his opportunities to cement a regular place in the seniors.

Naaaah. Come on, mate. You're a silly boy.

[Demonsone 1,956]

2 hours ago, Skuit said:

It is brutal.

But posters saying the club always goes to water in tight ones is over the top.

One of the losses our ruckman missed a shot from close range for the win.

The Saints wasn't really a close one. But in the genuine close one vs. Port we were reamed by the umps.

Yesterday we did indeed lose composure in the final minutes. But so did the Cats.

Watch the last two minutes of every thriller this year and all teams make poor decisions and fundamental skill errors at the manic death. And there will always be coaching and positional hindsights. Meanwhile, umpiring standards go out the window.

One team comes out on top. Mostly through some form of luck. 

 

Our club is littered with these types of loses & we just can’t seem to stop them! We have gone from a possible top 4 & now lucky to make the 8 ..  I just can’t see the positives... sorry I know the angle your coming from but I’m fed up seeing the cats & the hawks sneak into the 8 after so much success & what we have endured to just miss out again!

Edited July 22, 2018 by Hogan2014

[Clintosaurus 7,556]

3 minutes ago, Northern Summer said:

How we lost is beyond me -

• We had two chances to completely ice the game and get to a 6 goal lead, but Petracca missed a very straightforward shot trying to be too clever, and Gawn dropped a mark he should have taken in the goal square. We probably would have won by plenty had we got that 6 goal lead.
• Kennedy-Harris missing a very simple shot with 120 seconds left.
• The Petracca torpedo with 90 seconds to go when there were plenty of players sideways and backwards to kill the clock.
• Vince spoiling Melksham from Geelong's kick out from our last behind.

However, like you said, Ablett pushing Brayshaw into the back with 40 seconds left was so bloody obvious and evident and right in front of the umpires. How this was missed is beyond me! The umpires did cost us the game with this.

 

 

The umps see what they want to see.

[Adam The God 29,391]

One good thing about last night was how many Melbourne people there were. I've been to pretty much all the games down at that shithole for years now and I can't remember seeing so many Melbourne people. We were also pretty loud. In fact, watching parts of the replay last night when I got home, I thought we sounded pretty loud when we kicked goals.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were 5,000 of us in the 30,000 in attendance.

Is that a positive or does that just mean there were more people in more pain?

Edited July 22, 2018 by A F

[Demonsone 1,956]

Reality & sad fact is that between the Cats & the hawks they have won 7 flags since 07 & still playing finals & our club can’t even make the 8! 

[Old Bear 388]

1 hour ago, 640MD said:

 I have a friend who knows nothing about Football  (Collingwood supporter)   But he hates Geelong, maybe he does know a little bit.   His opinion is that our coaching staff lost it by not reacting quicker  or even by not packing the back line with one or two extra players in the last two or three minutes.   Omac clearly needed help and got none.   We should have learnt !

Am I wrong in thinking the reason we recruited Lewis was for these stituations 

So he could direct the team to take up the correct defensive positions 

[loges 6,767]

44 minutes ago, Northern Summer said:

How we lost is beyond me -

• We had two chances to completely ice the game and get to a 6 goal lead, but Petracca missed a very straightforward shot trying to be too clever, and Gawn dropped a mark he should have taken in the goal square. We probably would have won by plenty had we got that 6 goal lead.
• Kennedy-Harris missing a very simple shot with 120 seconds left.
• The Petracca torpedo with 90 seconds to go when there were plenty of players sideways and backwards to kill the clock.
• Vince spoiling and not marking Geelong's kick out from our last behind.

However, like you said, Ablett pushing Brayshaw into the back with 40 seconds left was so bloody obvious and evident and right in front of the umpires. How this was missed is beyond me! The umpires did cost us the game with this.

 

 

Didn't realise it was Ablett who pushes him in the back, there's the answer why it wasn't paid.