On 01/07/2018 at 22:31, TGR said:

The knock on Melbourne circa 2016 and onwards was pure and simple, a lack of outside speed.  Only a few posters here have been concerned with it over the journey.  This was one critical reason that I cautioned against the Lewis trade:  he was always going to make a slow team, even slower.  With Frost and Hunt (pre-injury) playing for Casey, and then you have Lewis, Vince (up to Port game), Tyson and co playing ones, it baffles me.

St.Kilda exposed our lack of defensive spread to the whole footy world yesterday.  Expect all teams below us to take us on with play-on, switching, and rebound footy from defensive 50.  Goodwin thinks its a lack of effort?  Maybe guys like Harmes and Hogan don't run back to defend hard enough, but we don't have the capacity to defensively spread.  We need speed behind the ball, not leadership.

 

 

 

 

been saying this for years yet people don't listen. the recruiters have been deplorable imo. should have a top 4 list this year yet we won't make finals. too many one paced mids, worst of all was trading kelly for Salem and Tyson. compare our list to Richmond's. if there was a foot race today with all the players I think every single tigers player bar nankervis would beat all our players. footspeed is the best weapon in the modern game and the idiotic recruiters don't understand. this will be especially evident once the zoning rules are introduced.

Edited July 2, 20186 yr by Elegt
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  On 01/07/2018 at 23:27, Petraccattack said:

Would get us around pick 30, same as Watts.

Yeah you may be right, Petrac. Although I would think there would be more suitors than there were for Watts

Roos on the couch questioning why frost or Garlett isn’t being selected, but he qualified that he hasn’t been watching the magoos . General discussion was on lack of defensive running both by defenders and mids , and also highlighted too many players contested ball happy and if they’re at the contest and opposition win the ball there’s no run and opposition can break away quickly 

Clearly,  without directly critising Goodwin , Roos is questioning our selections

  On 02/07/2018 at 10:46, Delusional demon 82 said:

Clearly,  without directly critising Goodwin , Roos is questioning our selections

 

Roos would not say that lightly!  He is obviously not happy with our defensive game and selection.  Goodwin has a small window to fix this to make the 8.  

Everyone is starting to question our work rate.  I say bravo!!  We are flat track bullies of late.

Agree 100% with Roos

Frost was brought in to play on big agile forwards and WOULD have proved vital v Cox v Dixon v Membrey.  Too late now.  Frost must be played for next 8 games. If his not up to it, then wave goodbye. I think he has the goods. 

Garlett needs to play AFL. He is not interested in VFL. Again play him or delist him at year end. He has averaged 10 disposals, 3 tackles, and 2 goals a game for the past 4 years. That is what small forwards do. And he provides the pace and crumbing we need. 

  On 02/07/2018 at 01:16, Elegt said:

been saying this for years yet people don't listen.

And If you go and take a look at the Draft/Trade forum threads for outside mids to recruit, the usual crew jump in with "He's too soft", "Butchers the footy", "Look at his low contested ball winning ratio to uncontested" 'or "Goodwin doesnt recruit the type of player that doesn't know how to win his own footy" 

Edited July 2, 20186 yr by John Demonic

  On 02/07/2018 at 11:55, Soidee said:

Roos would not say that lightly!  He is obviously not happy with our defensive game and selection.  Goodwin has a small window to fix this to make the 8.  

Everyone is starting to question our work rate.  I say bravo!!  We are flat track bullies of late.

Um if we were flat track bullies we would have beaten St.Kilda we are nothing we stand for nothing we aren't even good enough to be flat track bullies.

  On 02/07/2018 at 12:46, spirit of norm smith said:

Agree 100% with Roos

Frost was brought in to play on big agile forwards and WOULD have proved vital v Cox v Dixon v Membrey.  Too late now.  Frost must be played for next 8 games. If his not up to it, then wave goodbye. I think he has the goods. 

Garlett needs to play AFL. He is not interested in VFL. Again play him or delist him at year end. He has averaged 10 disposals, 3 tackles, and 2 goals a game for the past 4 years. That is what small forwards do. And he provides the pace and crumbing we need. 

Frost, Frost, Frost, we have another option in Keilty who was better than Frost against Essendon and is a better kick. He should get next crack. J.Smith and Petty have failed. Keilty should get next crack and if he fails then Frost should get his chance.

  On 02/07/2018 at 13:03, John Demonic said:

And If you go and take a look at the Draft/Trade forum threads for outside mids to recruit, the usual crew jump in with "He's too soft", "Butchers the footy", "Look at his low contested ball winning ratio to uncontested" 'or "Goodwin doesnt recruit the type of player that doesn't know how to win his own footy" 

Haha this is exactly what I was doing just now and was scared to throw up some names!

  On 01/07/2018 at 09:48, Lucifer's Hero said:

From the  horses mouth, the same happened to Brayshaw, early in the year.  He said that Jones organised a meeting with Goodwin.  In that meeting Goodwin told Gus what he had to do to get selected.  http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-05-29/i-wasnt-the-best-teammate-brayshaw  No sooner does Goodwin tell him what he needs to do, he puts his head down, changes his behaviours and in no time is back in the team.

At the time I was rather gobsmacked that Goodwin had not given Gus feedback but I didn't dwell on it. 

Now, your post makes me wonder if others (Garlett, Hunt (pre injury), Stretch, Frost) are being given the feedback they need to improve.  Its a real worry if what you describe is more widespread.

Absolute toss, they know exactly why, they have meetings everyday with line and development coaches, and can request clarity.

  On 02/07/2018 at 13:26, Satyriconhome said:

Absolute toss, they know exactly why, they have meetings everyday with line and development coaches, and can request clarity.

I hope you are right. You would hope and expect that Goodwin would have an open door policy and that communication is two way. At the same time, the coach /Goodwin has the responsibility and should have the initiative to regularly engage with every player on the list to ensure that there is clarity on expectations and footy behaviours and to listen to any questions or concerns from the player.  Players need to know where they stand. 

  On 01/07/2018 at 20:44, timbo said:

I'll take that bet against your hope dv8 - what odds

I'll bet my jocks they play finals this year.

I'll go jock free all week, in the week we may miss-out,,, IF we do.?

  On 01/07/2018 at 22:31, TGR said:

The knock on Melbourne circa 2016 and onwards was pure and simple, a lack of outside speed.  Only a few posters here have been concerned with it over the journey.  This was one critical reason that I cautioned against the Lewis trade:  he was always going to make a slow team, even slower.  With Frost and Hunt (pre-injury) playing for Casey, and then you have Lewis, Vince (up to Port game), Tyson and co playing ones, it baffles me.

St.Kilda exposed our lack of defensive spread to the whole footy world yesterday.  Expect all teams below us to take us on with play-on, switching, and rebound footy from defensive 50.  Goodwin thinks its a lack of effort?  Maybe guys like Harmes and Hogan don't run back to defend hard enough, but we don't have the capacity to defensively spread.  We need speed behind the ball, not leadership.

Your right about the lack of speed,,, but very wrong about Lewis's importance to our growth and development. He has been and is very important to the club and list.

As is, has been, Bernie.

We would be a much stronger side this year IF we recruited Rockliff last season.  And we could have traded Tyson then.  Or swapped.

Lewis is not the speed problem.  Every team carries some slower players, as long as they add to the team in other ways.

 

Same deal for fast players, speed is not enough on its own. see Hunt Frost and Garlett.  They have to add other strengths to what they bring, or they will be a liability.

  On 02/07/2018 at 12:46, spirit of norm smith said:

Agree 100% with Roos

Frost was brought in to play on big agile forwards and WOULD have proved vital v Cox v Dixon v Membrey.  Too late now.  Frost must be played for next 8 games. If his not up to it, then wave goodbye. I think he has the goods. 

Garlett needs to play AFL. He is not interested in VFL. Again play him or delist him at year end. He has averaged 10 disposals, 3 tackles, and 2 goals a game for the past 4 years. That is what small forwards do. And he provides the pace and crumbing we need. 

And I'm not interested turning up to work each day but yet I do.

 

@DV8 sir your undies challenge is uninspiring as you will be able to - ahem- keep things under wraps

lets put some money on the table

and let's not get too crazy

i think $10 will suffice . That figure does not at all reflect my level of confidence it's just that I am not prepared to waste a Zak more on this damned club 

Edited July 2, 20186 yr by timbo

Anyone know whos actually on the selection committee?  Is it just the main coaching staff (senior + assistants)?

 

  On 02/07/2018 at 23:03, Petraccattack said:

Anyone know whos actually on the selection committee?  Is it just the main coaching staff (senior + assistants)?

 

  On 02/07/2018 at 23:20, SFebey said:

When did we hire Brett Burton?

  On 02/07/2018 at 23:27, Dee Zephyr said:

When did we hire Brett Burton?

After watching his presser last week he can stay well away too.

  On 02/07/2018 at 20:11, timbo said:

@DV8 sir your undies challenge is uninspiring as you will be able to - ahem- keep things under wraps

lets put some money on the table

and let's not get too crazy

i think $10 will suffice . That figure does not at all reflect my level of confidence it's just that I am not prepared to waste a Zak more on this damned club 

I'm not a gambler 'timbo', I don't bet on anything.   no horses, no tattslotto, nada.

But I do invest in things.

  On 02/07/2018 at 10:46, Delusional demon 82 said:

Clearly,  without directly critising Goodwin , Roos is questioning our selections

And he is questioning them without actually knowing what's going on at the club.  So, in effect, he is no better than any of us here.  

  On 03/07/2018 at 01:43, Wiseblood said:

And he is questioning them without actually knowing what's going on at the club.  So, in effect, he is no better than any of us here.  

Mitchy H had a mare, Wise...what's happened to him?

There is no doubt that the video shown on the footy shows highlights a distinct lack of effort, in pressuring the ball carrier and the man you are on. It showed Saints players busting a gut to create the overlap, while our players never went with them.That is what Goodwin was talking about. The Saints killed us in effort and gut running and that is why with some umpire help and poor disposal from us, a lowly side beat us..

Edited July 3, 20186 yr by Redleg

  On 03/07/2018 at 01:51, jumbo returns said:

Mitchy H had a mare, Wise...what's happened to him?

Not too sure jumbo, but he was pretty terrible on the weekend.  I don't think he makes the cut this week.

I think an issue we have with that forward line is we have too many 'marking' options.  Hogan, Tom Mac, Weideman, Fritsch, Hannan... all of them are better in the air than when the ball hits the deck (although Fritsch is very good below his knees).  The balance there is out of whack and we need to fix it.