I I know Mick Malthouse doesn't command universal admiration but I think some of commentary warrants attention. On Sunday, after the match he assessed our list. He believes a decent Finals aspirant needs at least 26 players of top quality. ( I think we have, or will have, that number)

But he also said that it was critical that the very best players get a break. In this context I thought it interesting that in the Hawthorn/ Essendon match the two best players according to radio commentary, were Sicily and Bellchambers. In his post match interview Sicily referred to the fact that for reasons we all know, he had missed several games! And Bellchambers was rested for the precious match v Dees ( a gutsy decision considering the zgawn factor) Malthouse expressed concern about the lack of a replacement for Gawn and I must say I agree. If we win a decent number of matches, surely we could play a game with a combination of Pedersen, Weideman and TMac carrying out ruck duties.

its easier to replace our other" stars". I would definitely give Oliver a break and perhaps Hogan who is doing so much more work than the average key forward . Whilst not a star, in my view ANB simply needs a rest, I wouldn't play him at Casey if we leave him out

Thats what the bye is for.

9 minutes ago, Farmer said:

I I know Mick Malthouse doesn't command universal admiration but I think some of commentary warrants attention. On Sunday, after the match he assessed our list. He believes a decent Finals aspirant needs at least 26 players of top quality. ( I think we have, or will have, that number)

But he also said that it was critical that the very best players get a break. In this context I thought it interesting that in the Hawthorn/ Essendon match the two best players according to radio commentary, were Sicily and Bellchambers. In his post match interview Sicily referred to the fact that for reasons we all know, he had missed several games! And Bellchambers was rested for the precious match v Dees ( a gutsy decision considering the zgawn factor) Malthouse expressed concern about the lack of a replacement for Gawn and I must say I agree. If we win a decent number of matches, surely we could play a game with a combination of Pedersen, Weideman and TMac carrying out ruck duties.

its easier to replace our other" stars". I would definitely give Oliver a break and perhaps Hogan who is doing so much more work than the average key forward . Whilst not a star, in my view ANB simply needs a rest, I wouldn't play him at Casey if we leave him out

Which game would you rest Gawn in?

If we were to rest him in a relatively "easy" game and we lost heads would roll. Do you then rest him in a hard game? Don't we need Max to win those. I see what you're saying. I think players do need a rest and we don't have a backup ruck per se so I don't think we can rest Max in the way you want. It's a catch 22.

11 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Thats what the bye is for.

What both byes are for. 

2 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

Thats what the bye is for.

As in the “kiss your arse good” bye?

If there is no way to leave Gawn out of the team then the way to rest him is to absolutely belt a team in Q1 and put him on the bench for the rest of the match.  

 

There are a couple of matches in the second half for which I would take the chance with Max.

apart from anything else, we should have a plan in place in case he's injured

Pedo in first ruck role is better than Pedo in a KPF role, hit-outs excluded - which is fine if we plan for the tap-loss. He likes to move toward the goals and has pretty sharp inside-50 delivery - perfect if Max wants to take a rest game in the goal-square and Tmac is leading toward the ball. Then we have a back-up if things go pear-shaped. I know that playing full-forward isn't exactly a rest, and we lose some of the defensive pressure, but the opposition will need to commit to a dedicated defender and perhaps Hogan can take a rest himself under this scenario. Or Tmac can make a cameo down back. TLDR: Malthouse is a goon.

Nankervis shouldered the ruckload all year at Richmond and was fine. Gawn has had a more injury riddled past but he's in super knick fitness wise...

These days the players are that closely monitored clubs can see the signs & if they feel a players at risk they'll call it. Lighter training loads etc are ways often non of us know about which gives players a break during the week.

Edited May 9, 20186 yr by JV7

11 hours ago, Farmer said:

 

apart from anything else, we should have a plan in place in case he's injured

Maybe, just maybe the football department might have thought about it this already, but if you want to state the obvious go ahead it's a free country.

4 hours ago, Skuit said:

Pedo in first ruck role is better than Pedo in a KPF role, hit-outs excluded - which is fine if we plan for the tap-loss. He likes to move toward the goals and has pretty sharp inside-50 delivery - perfect if Max wants to take a rest game in the goal-square and Tmac is leading toward the ball. Then we have a back-up if things go pear-shaped. I know that playing full-forward isn't exactly a rest, and we lose some of the defensive pressure, but the opposition will need to commit to a dedicated defender and perhaps Hogan can take a rest himself under this scenario. Or Tmac can make a cameo down back. TLDR: Malthouse is a goon.

There is considerable merit in all of this and certainly, the need for resting key players is a worthy consideration as football is now so challenging at the week to week level. The smart solution to resting (or in reality, to providing preparations for season longevity) our players, such as Gawn and Hogan who have enormous territorial workloads, for example, would be as you suggest. The structures are there, the abilities are there, the proven articulation within the team of such variations are there, so why not? If Gawn falls, Hogan falls, Oliver falls or if any combination of these disasters occurs, then our finals hopes disappear.  

2 hours ago, JV7 said:

Nankervis shouldered the ruckload all year at Richmond and was fine. Gawn has had a more injury riddled past but he's in super knick fitness wise...

These days the players are that closely monitored clubs can see the signs & if they feel a players at risk they'll call it. Lighter training loads etc are ways often non of us know about which gives players a break during the week.

I must admit I don't quite understand the "needs a rest" idea. A game of football is less than three hours, once a week. Sure, it's intense and bodies take a beating. But if players need a rest isn't that what the other 165 hours per week is for? In other words, I would rather rest them during the week (ie, no training) rather than game day.

If, however, "rest" is code for "sore", that's a different issue. If a player has some form of soreness, whether it's bruising or something else, then I can understand that player not playing.

59 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I must admit I don't quite understand the "needs a rest" idea. A game of football is less than three hours, once a week. Sure, it's intense and bodies take a beating. But if players need a rest isn't that what the other 165 hours per week is for? In other words, I would rather rest them during the week (ie, no training) rather than game day.

If, however, "rest" is code for "sore", that's a different issue. If a player has some form of soreness, whether it's bruising or something else, then I can understand that player not playing.

I think needs a rest is a mental thing. There would be some that need it and some that don't.

We just need to be smarter with our use of players in games. I couldn't believe it when I saw Gawn rucking in the last five minutes of the St Kilda game. 4 games in 19 days and Gawn is running around like a maniac in a game that we had won 20 minutes earlier. At one stage he appeared to have tweaked his back, then he was off and running again. Like Viney, he needs to be saved from himself sometimes.

4 minutes ago, poita said:

We just need to be smarter with our use of players in games. I couldn't believe it when I saw Gawn rucking in the last five minutes of the St Kilda game. 4 games in 19 days and Gawn is running around like a maniac in a game that we had won 20 minutes earlier. At one stage he appeared to have tweaked his back, then he was off and running again. Like Viney, he needs to be saved from himself sometimes.

Precisely. An AFL game is like a marathon with free, multi-pronged batterings thrown in! Two marathons of that nature within less than a 7-day period? Phark, cried the crow...

15 hours ago, sue said:

If there is no way to leave Gawn out of the team then the way to rest him is to absolutely belt a team in Q1 and put him on the bench for the rest of the match.  

 

 

25 minutes ago, poita said:

We just need to be smarter with our use of players in games. I couldn't believe it when I saw Gawn rucking in the last five minutes of the St Kilda game. 4 games in 19 days and Gawn is running around like a maniac in a game that we had won 20 minutes earlier. At one stage he appeared to have tweaked his back, then he was off and running again. Like Viney, he needs to be saved from himself sometimes.

I thought this as well. They could be a lot smarter about how they use him in games. Even rest him in the forward line more if we are comfortably dominating or our other ruckmen are being effective and we're still winning centre clearances. 

It is a troubled issue with lots of differing opinions. 

No matter how fit you are, coming up to play every week is a huge ask on the body.  Players are now expected to run all day and yet compete for the footy and tackle in a manic and intensive way, unlike past generations of footballers.  With interstate matches, you also have travel and adjusting to different ground surfaces, different temperatures and humidity. Also varying gaps or rest between each match. Sure there are a couple of byes, but nevertheless the season is incredibly demanding on players bodies. 

Players walk a tightrope between maintaining fitness and remaining injury free. In a sense, as every game passes, the risk of injury and the risk of illness increases. Just running down the body energy reserves. In addition, you have the challenges of the relentless pressure on the mind. 

Ultimately, the stress of playing each week is going to end with injury, illness or the falling off of performance.. There are players who are less prone than others but players like Big Maxy, Oliver and Viney are at greater risk.

Every match is important, so you want your best team out there every week. However, I would rather rest a player like Max before exhaustion or injury occurs  that result in being sidelined for a longer period. 

The goal is to make the finals and have your best 22 fit and firing on all cylinders come finals time.  Accordingly, I feel that some players should be selectively rested during the season. 

We accumulated 8 of our 12 wins when he WASNT playing last year, so I think we could just look to how we did that and copy it.

Gawn played 7 Games last year for 4 wins and 3 losses (57% win ratio) When not playing we won 8 of 15 (53%). Not a massive difference really.

The big difference was that our midfield seemed to accept we wouldn’t win the tap and focused their energy on reading the opposition ruckman and simply sharking it.

4 hours ago, poita said:

We just need to be smarter with our use of players in games. I couldn't believe it when I saw Gawn rucking in the last five minutes of the St Kilda game. 4 games in 19 days and Gawn is running around like a maniac in a game that we had won 20 minutes earlier. At one stage he appeared to have tweaked his back, then he was off and running again. Like Viney, he needs to be saved from himself sometimes.

Agree with that. Why run him into the ground when you have a game won? It is lunacy and really tempting fate?

He should have rested half the last quarter last week.

I would seriously look at the NT games to give him a rest and avoid the flights as well.

Surely Pedo, Weid and Tom could handle those 2 games between them.

46 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Agree with that. Why run him into the ground when you have a game won? It is lunacy and really tempting fate?

He should have rested half the last quarter last week.

I would seriously look at the NT games to give him a rest and avoid the flights as well.

Surely Pedo, Weid and Tom could handle those 2 games between them.

I agree.  But those who see doom and gloom if we let a beaten oppo kick a couple of goals in a row in Q4 might have a meltdown.

In my ideal footy world, there are 0 preseason games, 0 byes, 0 interchanges, 16 teams, 32 rounds, 18 men on the field, 4 men on the bench, a 44 man list, and it's up to the coach to figure out how to deal with it all from week to week and from minute to minute.

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

Agree with that. Why run him into the ground when you have a game won? It is lunacy and really tempting fate?

He should have rested half the last quarter last week.

I would seriously look at the NT games to give him a rest and avoid the flights as well.

Surely Pedo, Weid and Tom could handle those 2 games between them.

Darwin... definitely and not only just for Gawn.

Conditions in Alice are relatively benign but the travel is a factor.

The problem with resting hm for Darwin is Sandilands and it's a must win game.

How I hate that Darwin game .....

 

5 hours ago, Chook said:

In my ideal footy world, there are 0 preseason games, 0 byes, 0 interchanges, 16 teams, 32 rounds, 18 men on the field, 4 men on the bench, a 44 man list, and it's up to the coach to figure out how to deal with it all from week to week and from minute to minute.

In my ideal footy world I'd leave it up to Norm Smith !

14 hours ago, Chook said:

In my ideal footy world, there are 0 preseason games, 0 byes, 0 interchanges, 16 teams, 32 rounds, 18 men on the field, 4 men on the bench, a 44 man list, and it's up to the coach to figure out how to deal with it all from week to week and from minute to minute.

I'd like to see 18 on the field, and two on the bench with interchanges limited to a smaller number. Perhaps no more than 24 per game. Hopefully it would obviate the need for players being required to stay in defined zones.

18 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Darwin... definitely and not only just for Gawn.

Conditions in Alice are relatively benign but the travel is a factor.

The problem with resting hm for Darwin is Sandilands and it's a must win game.

How I hate that Darwin game .....

 

They might rest Sandilands and avoid the flights as well.