Match Preview and Team Selection - Round 8

[Redleg 41,420]

19 hours ago, Thehardtackler said:

ANB is the best 2 way runner in the league right now. I guess that is why he keeps getting selected, because he can outrun everyone else in the league.

Not much good if he hasn't got the ball and when he rarely gets it, turns it over straight away. 

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

28 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Not much good if he hasn't got the ball and when he rarely gets it, turns it over straight away. 

No he doesn't, I expected better from you,  but you have joined the flock, must be a continual disappointment to the experts on here that Goodwin doesn't listen

They pick 22 each week, at the start of the season I said  that the idea of the best 22 in posters minds on here being picked was gone under Goodwin

Nobody is safe in the side, you play your role, you stay in, Harmes, Weid, ANB etc are doing just that

If Viney gets thru this week and performs there should be at least one change, if they want to ease him in in the fwd line then one of the small medium  fwds will go, all their stats are pretty even at the moment, so which one? because the forward line has worked the last couple of games, so why change it?

It should be a mid for mid

Edited May 11, 2018 by Satyriconhome

[leave it to deever 17,517]

3 hours ago, DV8 said:

Garlett's not going to help us win our next Flag...

His best form is awesome. Plenty of time  to regain it.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

His best form is awesome. Plenty of time  to regain it.

What I'm getting at is, the disappointment of his desire this year... and that we will be more than likely 3 to 4 Yrs away from any grand-final appearance.

So if the desire isn't apparent, then don't play him based on reputation..... whilst we have younger fellas who are really hungry for a go.

 

His best is very very good.  his poorest is very very disheartening for all;,,, players and supporters.

 

Keep him at Casey Demons, until he really kicks that famous Demons selectors door,,,  off its hinges.

Edited May 11, 2018 by DV8

[Cards13 9,117]

8 hours ago, beelzebub said:

I think a problem for many, certainly myself , is Ive never really seen much of Nibbler to suggest he's that good a footballer. He's a standout athlete...playing in an elite level football team, but that and of itself does not qualify anyone as a good footballer.

He does a few cameo footy things from time to time but in the main fluffs things as you might imagine a fish out of water to do.

Good football teams are made up of .... strangely enough....good footballers.

Good footballers possess that 'good footy brain' and have football skills.

You can get away without these so much at lesser levels. If we as a club want to experience success. 

Build a FOOTBALL team.   Not an athletics club. 

ANB has always played footy hasn’t he, he’s no Mason Cox so I don’t quite get this thought process. His skills and decision making might just be not any good. 

I think he will improve from here and he can get back to some quality footy. If not go back and work on his game. 

[beelzebub 23,382]

I cant be stuffed finding the actual post...but i seem to remember last season with a certain player out of favour that i suggested "it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was playing elsewhere next season (this season ) " and he is.

Im going to say exactly that again re Hunt. I doubt hell be at Melb in 2019.

Hope im wrong.

There's a lot to play out this year...only some on the ground.

Go Dees

[beelzebub 23,382]

1 minute ago, Cards13 said:

ANB has always played footy hasn’t he, he’s no Mason Cox so I don’t quite get this thought process. His skills and decision making might just be not any good. 

I think he will improve from here and he can get back to some quality footy. If not go back and work on his game. 

Yes he's played footy. I think he was very lucky....kinda tarred with similar brush as fellow Glenelger Stretch. Neither in my opinion top 22.

Alex supposedly an inside guy....not ar AFL he ain't. As an outside guy hes a brilliant athlete. Good runner.

He hasn't the intuitive style...he often runs to when he shouldn't.

As a footballer hes an excellent runner. Look at teams that succeed. They choose Footy Players, FIRST criteria.

Its ok that many have varying opinions.

[DV8 2,271]

13 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Yes he's played footy. I think he was very lucky....kinda tarred with similar brush as fellow Glenelger Stretch. Neither in my opinion top 22.

Alex supposedly an inside guy....not ar AFL he ain't. As an outside guy hes a brilliant athlete. Good runner.

He hasn't the intuitive style...he often runs to when he shouldn't.

As a footballer hes an excellent runner. Look at teams that succeed. They choose Footy Players, FIRST criteria.

Its ok that many have varying opinions.

That is a part of spread.  The part called sacrificial running.

[rjay 25,073]

26 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Im going to say exactly that again re Hunt. I doubt hell be at Melb in 2019.

 

He'll be here 'bb'...

He's not having a great run of form at the moment but I think he will turn it around.

He has what we need and he's not going anywhere.

[beelzebub 23,382]

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

That is a part of spread.  The part called sacrificial running.

If you watch carefully...he quite often spreads....but not to any usuable position.

Mind you ..and it might well be why he's still out there....that might be by directive. In drills we did A B and C ( personally not that convinced about B let alone C)

So he's going where told ?Much better players will intepret ...using footy nous... attention to weather... noting what opposition is doing. Reading the play . For a supposed outside link player...i just dont see a lot of "right".

A big problem about adhering resolutely and steadfastly to an order.....is the other side dont give a shlt..

For someone who job is to 'linkup' he spends an awful lot of the game running around not achieving much.

This actually comes back to Goodwin. His plan cant be so inflexible that he limits intuition.

He seems to have pared back the 'everyone at the ball' and rolling scrum shenanigans .

 

[Redleg 41,420]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

No he doesn't, I expected better from you,  but you have joined the flock, must be a continual disappointment to the experts on here that Goodwin doesn't listen

They pick 22 each week, at the start of the season I said  that the idea of the best 22 in posters minds on here being picked was gone under Goodwin

Nobody is safe in the side, you play your role, you stay in, Harmes, Weid, ANB etc are doing just that

If Viney gets thru this week and performs there should be at least one change, if they want to ease him in in the fwd line then one of the small medium  fwds will go, all their stats are pretty even at the moment, so which one? because the forward line has worked the last couple of games, so why change it?

It should be a mid for mid

Not sure I understand  what you have said here, but as you enjoy saying, everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is that ANB has been terrible this season. 

I wish he was in better form but he isn’t. He would not be in my side, but yes I am not the Coach, only a member/supporter.

[DV8 2,271]

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

If you watch carefully...he quite often spreads....but not to any usuable position.

Mind you ..and it might well be why he's still out there....that might be by directive. In drills we did A B and C ( personally not that convinced about B let alone C)

So he's going where told ?Much better players will intepret ...using footy nous... attention to weather... noting what opposition is doing. Reading the play . For a supposed outside link player...i just dont see a lot of "right".

A big problem about adhering resolutely and steadfastly to an order.....is the other side dont give a shlt..

For someone who job is to 'linkup' he spends an awful lot of the game running around not achieving much.

This actually comes back to Goodwin. His plan cant be so inflexible that he limits intuition.

He seems to have pared back the 'everyone at the ball' and rolling scrum shenanigans .

 

Yeah that's what spreads the defence and creates space.

We want our more skilled in the better spots for goal. they should all be spreading to draw out the defenders.

This also helps our younger players, like thew Weide and Spargo.

[DV8 2,271]

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

If you watch carefully...he quite often spreads....but not to any usuable position.

Mind you ..and it might well be why he's still out there....that might be by directive. In drills we did A B and C ( personally not that convinced about B let alone C)

So he's going where told ?Much better players will intepret ...using footy nous... attention to weather... noting what opposition is doing. Reading the play . For a supposed outside link player...i just dont see a lot of "right".

A big problem about adhering resolutely and steadfastly to an order.....is the other side dont give a shlt..

For someone who job is to 'linkup' he spends an awful lot of the game running around not achieving much.

This actually comes back to Goodwin. His plan cant be so inflexible that he limits intuition.

He seems to have pared back the 'everyone at the ball' and rolling scrum shenanigans .

 

Yeah that's what spreads the defence and creates space.

We want our more skilled in the better spots for goal. they should all be spreading to draw out the defenders.

This also helps our younger players, like the Weide and Spargo.

[binman 43,732]

23 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Not sure I understand  what you have said here, but as you enjoy saying, everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is that ANB has been terrible this season. 

I wish he was in better form but he isn’t. He would not be in my side, but yes I am not the Coach, only a member/supporter.

Snap.

One assumes he is meeting his kpis and meeting the expectations of the coach.

But he is getting very few possesions and made some critical errors against the saints which in a close game might  be the  difference between winning  and losing.

In a positive sign i think goodwin has recognised he was making too many changes and needed to get some contnuity. ANB might be a beneficiary  of that decision. Salem was a must in and he can take hunts role at hb. Im guessing he didn't want to make another change.

[Cards13 9,117]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

Snap.

One assumes he is meeting his kpis and meeting the expectations of the coach.

But he is getting very few possesions and made some critical errors against the saints which in a close game might  be the  difference between winning  and losing.

In a positive sign i think goodwin has recognised he was making too many changes and needed to get some contnuity. ANB might be a beneficiary  of that decision. Salem was a must in and he can take hunts role at hb. Im guessing he didn't want to make another change.

Saty or Nibbler?? 

[binman 43,732]

6 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Saty or Nibbler?? 

Both. Saty is on point with his club speak and 'narrative'.

ANB is, in the oft used words of mfc's man in the streets spokesperson, is apparently 'playing his role'.

On ANB, Stretch must feel a little miffed. One game in, some fumbles, and lack of attack and he is out of the side. 

[WERRIDEE 5,503]

If we can't beat this ordinary side by at least 6 goals something is mentally wrong with this side.

Viney would have made a huge difference because we need percentage due to the shockers against the Hawks and Tigs.

Part of me died when Viney was named for Casey. I don't think it's a great move.

Viney is one player that can step up to AFL level straight away.

[beelzebub 23,382]

6 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

If we can't beat this ordinary side by at least 6 goals something is mentally wrong with this side.

Viney would have made a huge difference because we need percentage due to the shockers against the Hawks and Tigs.

Part of me died when Viney was named for Casey. I don't think it's a great move.

Viney is one player that can step up to AFL level straight away.

I understand....but a bit of me wants to win without him.

The Viney factor is a bit like our eternal idea of a Silver Bullet.

We need a list and plan(s) to be ultra competitive and successful irregardless of who's playing.

We must stop relying on individuals...we need a team that can rely on each other. 

Just happy for JV to play a bit... unscathed. Come in better prepared. He hasn't been in the past.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

5 hours ago, DV8 said:

He's in our best 22 atmo, until we surpass him.

I think confidence will help, as it returns for him.

 

Next year, IF the AFL reduces rotations again to open the game up, we will be calling for our ANB's, and the Hunts.

I doubt the AFL will reduce rotations but i agree the stocks of a run and carry type player probably go up under that scenario.

On form and based purely on their matches played 'so far' this year, it is my amateur view that neither ANB or Hunt are in our best 22 right now.  This might change if either of them step up a few gears as the season progresses.

ANB remains in the 22 as he doesn't have a direct, or indirect, replacement.  That is until Viney returns.  He is also potentially competing directly with Hannan to hold his place so there is a healthy battle on right there.

Hunt was always more vulnerable with Salem and, to a lessor degree Wags, looking over his shoulder.

Some are suggesting Hannan might be looked at before ANB.  Only time will tell but at this stage, in both of his matches, IMHO Hannan has outperformed ANB.  Substantially so vs Essendrug and almost equally as horrible but still outperforming him (by a bee's whisker) vs the Saints (both sitting bottom of the performance stakes last week IMO).

It is too early in Hannan's return to make a call over and in preference to ANB but out of 29 players who have played 2 or more matches so far this season, i have Hannan sitting @ 16th vs ANB 25th.

Of course, should Hannan follow up with another shocker vs GC and ANB lifts a little (or better), it is unlikely Hannan would hold his place given ANB has more credits in the bank vs Hannan, who has only played about half the number of career matches and only 2 vs 7 (ANB) so far this year.

Yes i can hear some here saying... "that shouldn't matter" or "it has no relevance if one is outperforming the other" etc.  But in a close knit contest i think more games played (even if most are ordinary) does hold some weight / credit in the Coach's eyes.  A bit like how a challenger in many boxing bouts has to overwhelmingly defeat or K.O. his opponent in order to take the title.  Same applies to the less experienced trying to usurp their more experienced team mate.

There are also aspects to ANB's game IMO that Coaches would like that are, in some cases lacking, when looking at a direct comparison with Hannan unless Hannan is doing the things he does well.... exceptionally well!  Things like pressure acts, tackling in general, two way running and clearance work.  I think Hannan would want to start lifting in some of these other areas (with the exception of any substantial clearance work which i doubt coaches would be expecting much of) as well as playing to a high standard in what he does well anyway, if he is to get the nod above ANB once Viney returns.

Regardless, healthy competition can only be a good thing from a team / match performance perspective and certainly puts the onus on both of them to keep their standards to a high level to maintain their spot, especially when a player the ilk of Viney is on the cusp of selection.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

His best form is awesome. Plenty of time  to regain it.

 

3 hours ago, DV8 said:

What I'm getting at is, the disappointment of his desire this year... and that we will be more than likely 3 to 4 Yrs away from any grand-final appearance.

So if the desire isn't apparent, then don't play him based on reputation..... whilst we have younger fellas who are really hungry for a go.

 

His best is very very good.  his poorest is very very disheartening for all;,,, players and supporters.

 

Keep him at Casey Demons, until he really kicks that famous Demons selectors door,,,  off its hinges.

Who does he replace, even if he does lift quite well at Casey guys?

Assuming Fritsch and Spargo hold or better their current form, which to this stage is well above the output / form of Jeffy's so far.

Of course one or both could lose form which sees them vulnerable IF he lifts but just saying.  What if they don't?

[DV8 2,271]

34 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I doubt the AFL will reduce rotations but i agree the stocks of a run and carry type player probably go up under that scenario.

On form and based purely on their matches played 'so far' this year, it is my amateur view that neither ANB or Hunt are in our best 22 right now.  This might change if either of them step up a few gears as the season progresses.

ANB remains in the 22 as he doesn't have a direct, or indirect, replacement.  That is until Viney returns.  He is also potentially competing directly with Hannan to hold his place so there is a healthy battle on right there.

Hunt was always more vulnerable with Salem and, to a lessor degree Wags, looking over his shoulder.

Some are suggesting Hannan might be looked at before ANB.  Only time will tell but at this stage, in both of his matches, IMHO Hannan has outperformed ANB.  Substantially so vs Essendrug and almost equally as horrible but still outperforming him (by a bee's whisker) vs the Saints (both sitting bottom of the performance stakes last week IMO).

It is too early in Hannan's return to make a call over and in preference to ANB but out of 29 players who have played 2 or more matches so far this season, i have Hannan sitting @ 16th vs ANB 25th.

Of course, should Hannan follow up with another shocker vs GC and ANB lifts a little (or better), it is unlikely Hannan would hold his place given ANB has more credits in the bank vs Hannan, who has only played about half the number of career matches and only 2 vs 7 (ANB) so far this year.

Yes i can hear some here saying... "that shouldn't matter" or "it has no relevance if one is outperforming the other" etc.  But in a close knit contest i think more games played (even if most are ordinary) does hold some weight / credit in the Coach's eyes.  A bit like how a challenger in many boxing bouts has to overwhelmingly defeat or K.O. his opponent in order to take the title.  Same applies to the less experienced trying to usurp their more experienced team mate.

There are also aspects to ANB's game IMO that Coaches would like that are, in some cases lacking, when looking at a direct comparison with Hannan unless Hannan is doing the things he does well.... exceptionally well!  Things like pressure acts, tackling in general, two way running and clearance work.  I think Hannan would want to start lifting in some of these other areas (with the exception of any substantial clearance work which i doubt coaches would be expecting much of) as well as playing to a high standard in what he does well anyway, if he is to get the nod above ANB once Viney returns.

Regardless, healthy competition can only be a good thing from a team / match performance perspective and certainly puts the onus on both of them to keep their standards to a high level to maintain their spot, especially when a player the ilk of Viney is on the cusp of selection.

Both are ahead of Weideman as best 22, but only just, but Weide is playing to progress and develop.  Same with Spargo.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, DV8 said:

Both are ahead of Weideman as best 22, but only just, but Weide is playing to progress and develop.  Same with Spargo.

All 3 are a fair way off holding down a reasonably secure place in the 22 on current form IMO DV.  The next 5 to 6 rounds will probably tell the tale as to who is more likely.

Footy is a funny game though and all three might stay depending on injuries, their own form (or that of others who are competing directly or indirectly for their place), game day match ups and coaching credits/preferences.

[WERRIDEE 5,503]

7 hours ago, DV8 said:

What I'm getting at is, the disappointment of his desire this year... and that we will be more than likely 3 to 4 Yrs away from any grand-final appearance.

We will make it this year mark my words. This is the best team since 98 and as good if not better than 2000.

GO THE MIGHTY DEES!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

If we can't beat this ordinary side by at least 6 goals something is mentally wrong with this side.

Viney would have made a huge difference because we need percentage due to the shockers against the Hawks and Tigs.

Part of me died when Viney was named for Casey. I don't think it's a great move.

Viney is one player that can step up to AFL level straight away.

It's a long time out of the game but i agree W.  Surely half a match (or thereabouts) against GC or the Blues was the better option.  You wouldn't send Winks to Cranbourne after recovering from a hoof infection.

[WERRIDEE 5,503]

3 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

 

Who does he replace, even if he does lift quite well at Casey guys?

Assuming Fritsch and Spargo hold or better their current form, which to this stage is well above the output / form of Jeffy's so far.

Of course one or both could lose form which sees them vulnerable IF he lifts but just saying.  What if they don't?

Garlett is a one trick pony and soft. 2 things Goody doesn't like. When Garlett is on his game he is brilliant like his game against Brisbane but he doesn't play those games enough. When his tackling pressure is up and he's kicking goals that's when he's useful but he doesn't do those things often enough.

He's a long way from senior selection IMO.