Post Match Discussion - Round 2

[jnrmac 20,053]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Goodwin is on real shaky ground, Nought will be licking their lips...

42 points up....and then the cards fell. 

 

WHY?

At least we can try and work it out with 4 points in the bank, but the Band Aids were on show. 

EVERY team thinks they can beat Melbourne if they pressure us. We fold way too easily.

We will never be a good side until we can stop that.

[WERRIDEE 5,433]

4 minutes ago, A F said:

Absolutely. And he gave away another free kick for mouthing off to the umpire and handed the opposition momentum. The guy is a deadset liability at the moment.

He should be in the side but he shouldn't be our vice captain too undisciplined. I would prefer T.Mc to be Vice Captain.

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

EVERY team thinks they can beat Melbourne if they pressure us. We fold way too easily.

We will never be a good side until we can stop that.

Yep. The same trait has always been there the entire time i have followed the club...sometimes more pronounced in certain seasons, but always part of the fabric

[Guest]

I said 3 goal Melbourne win and I wasn't far wrong.

I'm not sure it's a case of us 'not trying' during these opposition comebacks. I think the effort is there but our onfield leaders need to recognize where we are getting opened up and try to remedy it. As Balmey says 'if a player isn't thinking for himself, he won't be able to perform' 

We take the good with the bad. We won and now we move on.

North will be a real challenge next week. We have to start well and make sure we have a decent match-up for Ben Brown. 

[picket fence 17,030]

3 hours ago, chook fowler said:

thatg!!It’s so obvious Frost needs to come in to allow Lever to roam. Hunt and Wagner and not doing enough. Bugg has no skills. There need to be changes for next week.

We are a ratsheeeeit team  that would see the best psychologists in the land all searching for answers!

Very Very LUCKY WIN

We aint that good folks and the problems of consistency will again see us probably miss the eight and force many on this site to another summer of Hell! 

Not me folks Cannot and will not invest other than an interest rather than a fervent passion.

This team chews you up and spits you out again!

Now that I have got  that of my chest..................

Clarry Choo Choo just sensational

Jesse almost back to best

Jeffy should have kicked 8

Chunky kept us in it when struggling.

Max?? trojan

Rest ??? Hot and cold!

Some big changes need to be made , stay tuned!

Edited March 31, 2018 by picket fence

[Adam The God 30,109]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

I agree re coach’s stubbornness or maybe lack of ideas.  

“No plan B” was also a criticism of ND (as opposed to no idea at all for his successors x2)

Not sure there is even without JV. 

ATM Vince offers more 

IMO it should be Lewis or Vince and Vince IMO is the one for now. 

RE: Vince and Lewis. Vince was used to tag Zorko and Lewis was used as the defensive anchor. I think they play different roles, but I agree with the sentiment that when Viney is fit, we won't be able to play both of them. It will say something about Harmes, Neal-Bullen, Salem et al, if we're playing Vince AND Lewis in the same team come Round 23.

[ShaneJ 88]

Lions still kicked 7 goals to none between 3rd and 4th quarter. Main issue with the Dees still not addressed and Goodwin deflected an answer on it in the presser when asked.

[picket fence 17,030]

1 minute ago, ShaneJ said:

Lions still kicked 7 goals to none between 3rd and 4th quarter. Main issue with the Dees still not addressed and Goodwin deflected an answer on it in the presser when asked.

Yeah coz he himself has NO IDEA!!

[ShaneJ 88]

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

Yeah coz he himself has NO IDEA!!

No idea. But there has to be a reason for it. It's every game now. Opposition get a run of unanswered goals every match. We shut off. 

[picket fence 17,030]

4 minutes ago, ShaneJ said:

No idea. But there has to be a reason for it. It's every game now. Opposition get a run of unanswered goals every match. We shut off. 

But we don't. I'm going to say it I don't think Goodwin is half the coach ROOSY was!!

[Jack7 528]

We lost the game after 1/4 time but will take any win on the road.

 

On that form,North will hammer us.

[Jimcor2 125]

38 minutes ago, picket fence said:

But we don't. I'm going to say it I don't think Goodwin is half the coach ROOSY was!!

I think you're right but I guess it was only to be expected with the different level of experience that each of them has.  I would have expected than Macca would be having some more influence....or maybe he's part of the problem?? 

Anyway, two years ago we would have lost this game and the fact that we didn't is a testament to the contribution of Garlett, Hogan, Clarrie, Petracca & Jones.  The inability of the on-field  leadership to come up with a plan to stop (or even slow down) the opposition when they've got a run on seems to have been a constant companion over the last decade or so.  This is surely a coaching/recruiting issue.  We are either not training our leaders properly or we're not recruiting good enough leaders yet.

The sad fact (to me) is that we continue to allow opposition coaches to tell their players "Don't worry, the game isn't lost yet.  Keep the pressure on and we'll get 6/7/8 goals back because they don't know how to defend a lead".  This has got to stop if we are to be genuine premiership challengers.  Regardless, a win is a great relief as we can now move on to the next season-defining game!

 

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

2 hours ago, ShaneJ said:

Lions still kicked 7 goals to none between 3rd and 4th quarter. Main issue with the Dees still not addressed and Goodwin deflected an answer on it in the presser when asked.

Interesting Goodwin deflected the Question, as it is only going to get bigger this week...

[Pates 9,658]

So I’ve taken the breath away from the forum after the game and been able to process what we watched. Here are some thoughts:

The lions are not as bad as what people think they are. While they might not win a hell of a lot of games Fagan has them believing in themselves and each other. They also do actually have some really good players so when things click they click well. 

That said we did the very Melbourne thing of letting them back in the match. At 42pts up we should be at least keeping them at arms length for the rest of the game. We can still not handle the opposition getting a run on, no matter who they are. 

We seem to lose our heads and any semblance of a structure, we give away stupid free kicks (Hunt, Lewis), and spoil each other or just not communicate. Lewis is meant to be our experienced rock and he failed in that role tonight. When we needed someone down there to be able to drag the players up he seemed to do the opposite. 

On the positive side our forward line worked into good positions and the midfield was able to deliver the ball to them on a platter. They took most of their opportunities early and that was the difference at the end. 

Clarry is a gun, we really have something special with him. Petracca did some very important things, while Jones was good though I felt he went missing when we needed him to step up in the third quarter. Gawn and Martin was a great ruck battle. I’d call it even at the end. Jetta will be annoyed he had his colours lowered a bit this game, he still went hard with guts but he was beaten on the night. 

Goodwin needs to address this very serious issue of conceding runs of goals. We will never get anywhere if it continues. 

[Cassiew 1,903]

8 hours ago, Sigil said:

Christ, should the team have given up and let BrisVegas had the lollies, so the MFC Syndrome could have the jollies?

"It's so like Melbourne to roll over and lose against a team like this". We didn't.

"We screwed up our draft picks again". We didn't.

"X Team would have beaten them by eleven billionty goals". They don't exist.

It's bloody frustrating but some of the hyperbole in the game day threads and post discussion are silly. Critical analysis... sure... Critical always about everything MFC... not so much.

 

It’s way to early to dismiss Brisbane as a loser team based on last year’s performance.  I remeber people dismissing us in 2016 because of a scrappy win against GWS, who later went on to make it to the PF. They were horrible in the first half. We were horrible in the second half, but they were playing good if not inaccurate. Zorko was incredible.

I woke up in my guensey very happy this morning 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Cassiew

[Cassiew 1,903]

8 hours ago, Demon77 said:

He was horrible tonight but if we do make finals I don’t believe the coaches will be leaving out just about the only player with finals experience.

Didn’t Jones play in 2006?

[Clintosaurus 7,826]

16 minutes ago, Cassiew said:

Didn’t Jones play in 2006?

Yep. He also had hair.

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

13 minutes ago, Cassiew said:

Didn’t Jones play in 2006?

Yes, Jones played in 06 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

7 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

I will tell you the single biggest flaw and reason that we are being beaten in quarters at the moment....here goes

Our plan is to win the clearance in the middle and then handball to the runner off the back flank...usually Hibberd or someone like that. The running player drives it long inside forward fifty aND we have 2 on 1 against us EVERY F. TIME. It is so easy to set up for. Just drop one back and we will kick it down your throat 2 on 1. That is setup. That is coaching. That is not on the players. It must stop. No point dominating in close..releasing the runner and then having no one inside fifty. It's FLAWED ...wake up GOODWIN.

End rant

In the 3rd and early in the last we were getting killed in the clearances so I think it is partly what you say (our setup) but not because we're winning and kicking it down the opposition's throat. It's because we stream forward expecting to win the clearance and when we don't were caught on the back foot 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

45 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In the 3rd and early in the last we were getting killed in the clearances so I think it is partly what you say (our setup) but not because we're winning and kicking it down the opposition's throat. It's because we stream forward expecting to win the clearance and when we don't were caught on the back foot 

I think that's pretty much spot on, Doc.  The moment they start winning the clearances is the moment the ball goes flying over those two defenders off the back of the square and it really does put us under the pump.

What I'd like to see is some semblance of a Plan B - when the momentum shifted in the third, it should be up to our leaders to notice what is happening and implement the agreed upon changes, whatever they are.  I know many of us get annoyed at our 'leaders' when things go wrong, but if the coach wants to stick to the game plan regardless, then there isn't much they can do in terms of changing it on field.

The run on of goals is really our only problem at the moment, and one that can be fixed.  I think our defenders do a great job and are made to look bad when a team gets a roll on as our pressure drops, we lose important one on one contests and their forwards have so much space to burn.

[buck_nekkid 5,844]

40 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In the 3rd and early in the last we were getting killed in the clearances so I think it is partly what you say (our setup) but not because we're winning and kicking it down the opposition's throat. It's because we stream forward expecting to win the clearance and when we don't were caught on the back foot 

I think this is right.  The team is set up to win the clearance.  If that fails, we are caught out.  2 off the back of the square means we look like kings if we win the clearance, ok if we halve it, and like spuds if we lose it.

it is a system designed around Max, Clarry and Viney, with cameos from others.

it can also break down if we hit HF and the opposition go around our surge forward.  Our backs get caught out of position.

we are Best winning the stoppage. Expect us to struggle against teams with fast clearance systems.  When Brissie kept winning it, the system looked poor.  When we started winning it in the last (thanks, Clarrie!) we looked great and got home.

Lever may be wasted in our system.  Rather than being able to set for an intercept mark from up field contests, when the ball pings in over the head of the two mis-placed half backs, he would have to be Usain bolt to get into intercept positions.

we need:

a plan B to stop run ons

a better way to score from stoppages inside our 50

outside run that starts at the wing, not half back

 defensive structures at midfield and high half forward that protect our last line, and give them time to position and set up.

[—coach— 3,496]

10 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

Yes, Lewis has made potentially game losing clangers at crucial times two weeks in a row now. He won’t make our best 22 come finals time...

Except he probably will given he’s one of about 3 blokes in our team who have played finals and 1 of 2 that have playing in a grand final

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

I honestly can't remember such negativity after a win. It's absolutely sheeeit. Stop being overly critical and enjoy a damn win.

Yeah lions came back. Let's look at some realities though. Hogan has the chance to make it back 30 point lead 2 minutes into the last. Kicks it on the full. If he kicks that the Lions know they are done.  Brisbane get a bulltish holding the ball free kick in front of goal against Neville.  Never shown the replay and it was a crowd induced free, no doubt. Christiansen kicked goals off the back of free kicks for ducking and one idiotic moment from Lewis when we has 3 on 1. Petracca misses easy goal to stretch our lead. In the late 2nd and 3rd. Bugg misses, Hunt misses. ..all gettable ...the game should have been put to bed.

 

Now ..yeah we gave them a sniff. ..yes they came hard...on their home deck in conditions that are far more familiar to them. We withstood the fightback and won by 26 and had Melksham Petracca Bugg and Hogan nailed goals they should have kicked in the 4th...we'd be sitting here applauding a 40 something point win. 

 

While the fade outs are a worry, the wrist slashing going on here reminds me of Roos' comments about the veil of negativity that surrounds the MFC. 

 

Ffs Essendon who thought they were flag contenders were beaten by Freo. Who can hardly claim a home ground advantage. It was their first game there. Maybe a home crowd advantage...and flag favorites GWS limped over the line against a depleted Collingwood who we all know absolutely stink. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Leoncelli_36

[Gorgoroth 12,916]

After a couple of well needed stiff drinks last night and a good nights sleep I’m feeling no different. Last week I thought we played some good footy and it was a good game, second quarter was horrible but the cats out coached us in that quarter.

Last night we played well in he first half but with a lot of people having minimal influence. TBH I am surprised by the Jones love, I thought he was ok, but make some awful decisions that cost us and was very un-Jones like, and v the cats I thought similar. I think he is lost on the wing. Must play in the mid. Must.

If we want Lever to play as the second tall then we wasted the trade, it isn’t his go, it wasn’t at the crows and all we are doing is killing his confidence.

Lewis spends more time on the ground than on his feet. Fumbled last week in the first half too. If he plays like this then he won’t (shouldn’t) be in the team.

I thought Salem was better than some, but people seem to mark him harshly. I am seeing good things and great composure and like Petracca last year he will grow better and I think by years end will be a key mid for us. 

Omac has been great, still flaps around at times but I feel a little better when he is in the contest and with ball in hand.

Ithink Goodwin has gone from a coach who threw magnets around to a Roos type of back them in the same position, but he did throw Garlett up the groun$ early and he got into the game early and was great.

Bugg... must go back to Casey and stay until he can kick goals reliably. That or put him as a tagger.

No idea why Harmes is struggling, but he chases and pressures well so I hope it turns for him soon.

No idea why Goodwin has gone for a super young starting mid with Viney out, but Jones needs to go back in and he needs to change up the player starting on the back of the square so they start there sometimes and as a forward others, teams have worked it out.