Post Match Discussion: JLT #2 vs St. Kilda

[Gator 17,972]

Geelong

 2017 Prelim Final Out :

Henderson
Lonergan
Mackie
Dangerfield
Motlop
SSelwood
Cockatoo
Lang

Round 1 In:

Ablett
C.Guthrie
Kelly
Gregson
ZGuthrie
Esava
Fogharty
Parsons

No excuses/

Edited March 23, 2018 by ProDee

[Wrecker45 3,378]

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

 

 

 

Sometimes this stuff is enjoyable to bring up. 

 

It's a long season mate. Tyson is best 22 and will play in finals.

Why you take enjoyment in a player missing round 1 after a long and gruelling pre-season speaks volumes about the type of person you are.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

11 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

It's a long season mate. Tyson is best 22 and will play in finals.

Why you take enjoyment in a player missing round 1 after a long and gruelling pre-season speaks volumes about the type of person you are.

lol.

I take enjoyment in posters like you being so 'sure' that Tyson is best 22 and posting silly statements.

Out of 28-30 players, Goody couldn't find a place in the best 22 for him. 

From that complex reading, it looks like he's not in the best 22.

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

12 hours ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

No point of that. Doubt that bloke listens to anyone.

Looking forward to Wagner turning it over in the first quarter to gift Geelong a goal. 

Do you honestly believe he is any good? I have him in the bottom 10 on our list.

Wagner's inclusion allows for a whole range of flexibility. Lewis, Jones, Vince and Hunt can all be played in  a variety of other roles and we have no idea what Goodwin has planned for gameday. Vince could take a tag for example. Jones could be playing in the guts all day etc.

I don't share the same pessimism when it comes to Wagner. I think he has a lot of upside and his kicking is better and more consistent than Tyson's aside from his odd howler. Tyson is just generally a poor kick.

Maynard over Tyson is intriguing. And I look forward to what he'll bring on Sunday. 

Edited March 23, 2018 by stevethemanjordan

[DistrACTION Jackson 10,231]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Wagner's inclusion allows for a whole range of flexibility. Lewis, Jones, Vince and Hunt can all be played in  a variety of other roles and we have no idea what Goodwin has planned for gameday. Vince could take a tag for example. Jones could be playing in the guts all day etc.

I don't share the same pessimism when it comes to Wagner. I think he has a lot of upside and his kicking is better and more consistent than Tyson's aside from his odd howler. Tyson is just generally a poor kick.

Maynard over Tyson is intriguing. And I look forward to what he'll bring on Sunday. 

Fair enough. We can agree to disagree.

Time will tell but I'm very concerned about Wagner's inclusion. Less so about Maynard as I like his hardness.

Lets hope we get the win!

[jnrmac 20,276]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Wagner's inclusion allows for a whole range of flexibility. Lewis, Jones, Vince and Hunt can all be played in  a variety of other roles and we have no idea what Goodwin has planned for gameday. Vince could take a tag for example. Jones could be playing in the guts all day etc.

I don't share the same pessimism when it comes to Wagner. I think he has a lot of upside and his kicking is better and more consistent than Tyson's aside from his odd howler. Tyson is just generally a poor kick.

Maynard over Tyson is intriguing. And I look forward to what he'll bring on Sunday. 

Do you think Wagner is a better footballer than Tyson?

[Adam The God 30,614]

I think Tyson will be cusp 22 unless he can add more strings to his bow. But he is the prototype finals footballer at his best - that is a clearance specialist and goal kicking mid.

Where he needs to improve this year is hitting the scoreboard like he did in his first year and his field kicking needs to improve too. If his field kicking improves, he then becomes a potential half back option.

However, he doesn't have the same versatility as an Oliver or Petracca, but that doesn't mean he won't be a key for us on multiple occasions in 2018.

I said this in the wake of Richmond's  grand final win, but with the game's evolution towards pressure forwards and Goodwin's desire for versatility and midfield options, Tyson could be on the outer this year unless he can evolve as well. He's too slow to play a pressure forward, so it'll be interesting to see how he goes this year, as I like him as a player.

[Adam The God 30,614]

14 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Do you think Wagner is a better footballer than Tyson?

Strange question. They're completely different players.

[jnrmac 20,276]

1 minute ago, A F said:

Strange question. They're completely different players.

Only if you don't read the post I was responding to.

[Adam The God 30,614]

On 09/03/2018 at 12:13 AM, DemonAndrew said:

i started really supporting the dees about 85. 86. and since then i reckon i could count the champion midfielders we've had with one hand - maybe even just two fingers, in flower and stynes, and i only saw the tail end of robbie's career

players that i thought would become 'champion' mids - i.e. constantly in discussion for all australian if not brownlow contention - but for a variety of reasons never quite did:

• travis johnstone
• glenn lovett
• shane woewodin
• stephen tingay
• todd viney
• nathan jones

players that i think could from our current crop:

• oliver
• petracca
• viney
• salem

that's what is exciting about our playing list at the moment; we have four players with elite potential

and i'd personally argue oliver is already there - clearly the best inside mid we've had in a long, long time

Oliver is on the cusp of elite. Only injury and application can hold him back from being a champion. 

He's the best Melbourne midfielder in my 30 year lifetime quite comfortably. He does things consistently that players on your list would dream of being able to do.

[Adam The God 30,614]

19 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Only if you don't read the post I was responding to.

I read it... still a strange question.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Do you think Wagner is a better footballer than Tyson?

Like @A F, I don’t really understand the question as they’re totally different players and are not in competition for the same spot.

I only compared the kicking ability of the two because I can’t understand why so many posters are so underwhelmed by Wagner and his kicking yet love Tyson, who is without a doubt one of the weakest kickers in our team. It doesn’t matter that he is a ball winner and an extractor when is giving up the ball or not turning those possessions into meaningful disposals. 

The dislike of Wagner vs love of Dom Tyson is perplexing.

Edited March 24, 2018 by stevethemanjordan

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Do you think Wagner is a better footballer than Tyson?

I think Wagner is a better HBF than Tyson which is where he will play. 

[Adam The God 30,614]

1 hour ago, fndee said:

I think Wagner is a better HBF than Tyson which is where he will play. 

Perhaps ironically, I'd argue Wagner is less versatile than Tyson, which I think is Tyson's weakness and why he finds himself just outside the 22 for this game. 

Edited March 24, 2018 by A F

[jnrmac 20,276]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Like @A F, I don’t really understand the question as they’re totally different players and are not in competition for the same spot.

I only compared the kicking ability of the two because I can’t understand why so many posters are so underwhelmed by Wagner and his kicking yet love Tyson, who is without a doubt one of the weakest kickers in our team. It doesn’t matter that he is a ball winner and an extractor when is giving up the ball or not turning those possessions into meaningful disposals. 

The dislike of Wagner vs love of Dom Tyson is perplexing.

They are different players indeed which is why I couldn't understand the comparison at first. Tyson can turn the ball over - as he proved in spades in the Collingwood game - but he is good kick on the run and for goal. I think he is a much better kick in general that Wagner.

We'll see how the team lines up and what Goody has as his role but I don't rate Wagner at all.

[daisycutter 29,892]

i suspect goody thinks tyson is still a little underdone. brayshaw after effects of wisdom teeth extraction. needs more time to rebuild his wisdom  

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

On 23/03/2018 at 6:16 PM, ProDee said:

You're not the smartest tool in the shed.

Post match he was interviewed by Matt Burgan and admitted selection would be based upon whether he had enough match fitness from the sports science guys.  Clearly Tyson has missed selection based upon not being quite cherry ripe (notwithstanding a good showing for Casey the following week).

In round 1 you pick the fittest squad you can.

He's best 22 and will be selected sooner rather than later.

I'm glad you've bumped this thread and can assure you you'll be hoisted by your own petard.

I get the feeling you were meant to be quoting my post? 

Given Harmes, ANB, Lewis, Jones and Oliver were all similarly battling niggles in the lead up to this game, your view that Tyson was overlooked because of “fitness” doesn’t seem to stack up. All of those players have been selected having missed parts of training or JLT games, like Dom. 

I can quite clearly see that you rate Tyson highly like many on here.

But it is most obvious that Goodwin doesn’t see him as a best 22 player. Even more telling that it’s the start of a season with a healthy squad to select from.

Edited March 24, 2018 by stevethemanjordan

[Gator 17,972]

21 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I get the feeling you were meant to be quoting my post? 

Given Harmes, ANB, Lewis, Jones and Oliver were all similarly battling niggles in the lead up to this game, your view that Tyson was overlooked because of “fitness” doesn’t seem to stack up. All of those players have been selected having missed parts of training or JLT games, like Dom. 

I can quite clearly see that you rate Tyson highly like many on here.

But it is most obvious that Goodwin doesn’t see him as a best 22 player. Even more telling that it’s the start of a season with a healthy squad to select from.

Yes, I thought I was quoting you.  Perhaps I'm the moron.

You make a good point re others having niggles.  Maynard seems to have been preferred and it surprises me greatly if Goodwin sees that as a long term solution.  They clearly like Maynard and wanted to give him an opportunity.  Perhaps a slightly underdone Tyson gave them that opportunity.  It's all I've got.

Tyson is not without his faults, but he was very good against St Kilda and at just 24 I reckon he still has improvement in him.  Some concentrate on the odd howler, but generally he kicks it very well, he's tough, keeps his feet and is creative in congestion.

You may be right and if so bully for you.  But I reckon when the whips are cracking he'll be in the best 22 picked every week.

We'll know who's right soon enough.

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,257]

Tyson must be wondering where his footy is at right now.

A former top 3 draft pick overlooked in preference to an NBL basketballer.

Can’t blame a lack of pre season as he had a JLT game and a Casey hit out.

[rjay 25,307]

43 minutes ago, ProDee said:

You make a good point re others having niggles.  Maynard seems to have been preferred and it surprises me greatly if Goodwin sees that as a long term solution.  They clearly like Maynard and wanted to give him an opportunity.  Perhaps a slightly underdone Tyson gave them that opportunity.  It's all I've got.

Perhaps 'joeboy' has joined the match committee...

That's all I've got.

[Adam The God 30,614]

35 minutes ago, rjay said:

Perhaps 'joeboy' has joined the match committee...

That's all I've got.

Tyson will be back, no doubt, but it'll be at the expense of a non performer or team balance.

I have him in my best 22, but I also had him slipping out of it by year's end unless he builds more versatility in his game.

Maynard for Tyson is confusing though as Maynard lacks versatility too.

Edited March 24, 2018 by A F