Ex-Demon Craig Cameron on the move again

[DaveyDee 421]

Interesting, CC moving to the Suns, good on him, very talented and a great communicator.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-13/giants-cut-ties-with-list-manager-craig-cameron 

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Cameron loves swapping clubs. Melbourne, Richmond, GWS, Gold Coast, a stint in horse racing.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

One disaster to another...

[drdrake 3,178]

He stuffed our recruiting moved to Richmond and stuffed theirs, GWS should be celebrating that he has gone.

[DaveyDee 421]

17 hours ago, Tony Tea said:

Cameron loves swapping clubs. Melbourne, Richmond, GWS, Gold Coast, a stint in horse racing.

CC Melbourne - did a brilliant job taking into account the situation

CC Richmond - passionate Tiger and got head-hunted by them, rebuilt the whole FD department to be a force in AFL football again.

CC BC3 - followed another passion and was lied too like 99% of the other investors in BC3

CC GWS - logical choice to go to GWS but they got him cheap due to BC3 debacle

CC GC - If I was Mark Evans he is exactly the type of person I would have gone after and hang the expense

Just my thoughts I always respected the positions inside a FD and its easy to criticise with no knowledge 

Edited November 14, 2017 by DaveyDee

[drdrake 3,178]

31 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

CC Melbourne - did a brilliant job taking into account the situation

CC Richmond - passionate Tiger and got head-hunted by them, rebuilt the whole FD department to be a force in AFL football again.

CC BC3 - followed another passion and was lied too like 99% of the other investors in BC3

CC GWS - logical choice to go to GWS but they got him cheap due to BC3 debacle

CC GC - If I was Mark Evans he is exactly the type of person I would have gone after and hang the expense

Just my thoughts I always respected the positions inside a FD and its easy to criticise with no knowledge 

Sorry, how did he do a brilliant job at Melbourne, all I can recall is a large number of failed draft picks and recruiting errors, and continued this form over at Richmond

Edited November 14, 2017 by drdrake

[mo64 5,875]

24 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Sorry, how did he do a brilliant job at Melbourne, all I can recall is a large number of failed draft picks and recruiting errors, and continued this form over at Richmond

Don't forget that we were twice penalised with loss of draft picks in his early days (salary cap and Jeff White). He wouldn't have had many top 10 picks during his time. Of the top of my head, he had his fair share of successes (Farmer, Woey, Scott Thompson, Davey, Leoncelli, J. McDonald), many of whom were rookie listed.

He was a genius compared to Prendergast.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

What’s BC3?

[poita 3,902]

It goes to show how it is still more about who you know, rather than the quality of performance.

Our recruiting was appalling for most of the 2000s (Molan, Bell, Smith, McLean, Sylvia, Bate as failed first round draft picks, plus the likes of Heffernan and Pickett as failed high price recruits). And Richmond was similarly a basket case during his tenure. 

[DaveyDee 421]

52 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Sorry, how did he do a brilliant job at Melbourne, all I can recall is a large number of failed draft picks and recruiting errors, and continued this form over at Richmond

Only an opinion - I felt we where under resourced in the CC & BP recruiting eras due to a lack of finances compared to our opposition clubs.

Then to top that all off, again due to a lack of resources and finances we had a near non-existent players development programme.  

I'm not sure CC and BP ever got a fair chance at the MFC - so hence I thought he did a brilliant job with what he had to work with. 

 

[DaveyDee 421]

8 minutes ago, poita said:

It goes to show how it is still more about who you know, rather than the quality of performance.

Our recruiting was appalling for most of the 2000s (Molan, Bell, Smith, McLean, Sylvia, Bate as failed first round draft picks, plus the likes of Heffernan and Pickett as failed high price recruits). And Richmond was similarly a basket case during his tenure. 

Interesting I always thought the Tigers where a "basketcase" before his tenure but after his tenure they were a powerhouse again. Interesting how others see things. 

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

What’s BC3?

Black Caviar 3

[drdrake 3,178]

I think BP was hard done by Cameron, he left him with nothing on the list

Edited November 14, 2017 by drdrake

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

2 hours ago, mo64 said:

Don't forget that we were twice penalised with loss of draft picks in his early days (salary cap and Jeff White). He wouldn't have had many top 10 picks during his time. Of the top of my head, he had his fair share of successes (Farmer, Woey, Scott Thompson, Davey, Leoncelli, J. McDonald), many of whom were rookie listed.

He was a genius compared to Prendergast.

Craig Cameron definitely had nothing to do with Farmer and Leoncelli coming to the club

[Adam The God 30,261]

4 hours ago, DaveyDee said:

CC Melbourne - did a brilliant job taking into account the situation

CC Richmond - passionate Tiger and got head-hunted by them, rebuilt the whole FD department to be a force in AFL football again.

CC BC3 - followed another passion and was lied too like 99% of the other investors in BC3

CC GWS - logical choice to go to GWS but they got him cheap due to BC3 debacle

CC GC - If I was Mark Evans he is exactly the type of person I would have gone after and hang the expense

Just my thoughts I always respected the positions inside a FD and its easy to criticise with no knowledge 

Cameron's tenure would be deemed very ordinary if it hadn't directly preceded Prendergast's car crash. The latter must have one of the worst records for a recruiter in the history of the game. It was his horrible record that made Cameron's recruiting appear serviceable. But when you fail to recruit an A grader in your 10+ years at the club, it's an indictment on you as a recruiter.

[Redleg 40,939]

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

What’s BC3?

A horse racing syndicate, built on a ponzi scheme, where all the funds, ( millions ), disappeared. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

30 minutes ago, Redleg said:

A horse racing syndicate, built on a ponzi scheme, where all the funds, ( millions ), disappeared. 

Oh that was Bill, gotcha....

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

1 hour ago, A F said:

Cameron's tenure would be deemed very ordinary if it hadn't directly preceded Prendergast's car crash. The latter must have one of the worst records for a recruiter in the history of the game. It was his horrible record that made Cameron's recruiting appear serviceable. But when you fail to recruit an A grader in your 10+ years at the club, it's an indictment on you as a recruiter.

Barry's record improves over time with the impacts of Gawn, Jetta, T.Mac, Howe et cetera.  Scully became Hogan, Gysberts Pedersen

[Earl Hood 6,086]

What were CC's recruiting years for MFC? I thought he was active in the latter part of Daniher's tenure and our poor overall recruiting from 2000 to 2006 is why we fell over a cliff in 2007. We got some first rounders right in Jones, Rivers and Chip but otherwise we had more misses than hits. 

[bing181 9,242]

Not excusing anyone, but drafting has become a lot less hit and miss over the last 5 or so years for all clubs. More research, more resources, more professional overall. And all that coupled with an increased understanding of the crucial importance of development.

[DaveyDee 421]

13 hours ago, goodoil said:

Barry's record improves over time with the impacts of Gawn, Jetta, T.Mac, Howe et cetera.  Scully became Hogan, Gysberts Pedersen

Barry's record improves when we start investing money into development

9 hours ago, bing181 said:

Not excusing anyone, but drafting has become a lot less hit and miss over the last 5 or so years for all clubs. More research, more resources, more professional overall. And all that coupled with an increased understanding of the crucial importance of development.

Good to see some Demons supporters finally getting where our real problems are. However, research, resources and development costs big money. 

 

12 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

What were CC's recruiting years for MFC? I thought he was active in the latter part of Daniher's tenure and our poor overall recruiting from 2000 to 2006 is why we fell over a cliff in 2007. We got some first rounders right in Jones, Rivers and Chip but otherwise we had more misses than hits. 

We fell off the cliff - because while we were writing cheques to play games at the MCG and pay off debt, our opposition was writing cheques  to improve all facets of their football departments. 

[The Chazz 4,077]

9 hours ago, bing181 said:

Not excusing anyone, but drafting has become a lot less hit and miss over the last 5 or so years for all clubs. More research, more resources, more professional overall. And all that coupled with an increased understanding of the crucial importance of development.

Drafting can still be hit and miss now.  Yes, there's more research, more resources, and more professionalism, but what money can't buy is a crystal ball, and this is what sorts out the great recruiters, the good recruiters, and the crap ones.

Regardless of how the club was in the 2000-2014 period, the recruiting efforts of CC and BP was a complete fail.  One thing that the club doesn't have to spend money on to compete with the "big boys" is the attitude of the player.  Mclean, Sylvia, Watts, Morton, Gysberts, et al, these blokes didn't have the desire to work their backsides off with what the club could offer them.  They could still become great if they put in effort.  They didn't.

[DaveyDee 421]

1 hour ago, The Chazz said:

Drafting can still be hit and miss now.  Yes, there's more research, more resources, and more professionalism, but what money can't buy is a crystal ball, and this is what sorts out the great recruiters, the good recruiters, and the crap ones.

Regardless of how the club was in the 2000-2014 period, the recruiting efforts of CC and BP was a complete fail.  One thing that the club doesn't have to spend money on to compete with the "big boys" is the attitude of the player.  Mclean, Sylvia, Watts, Morton, Gysberts, et al, these blokes didn't have the desire to work their backsides off with what the club could offer them.  They could still become great if they put in effort.  They didn't.

You dont need a "crystal ball" - you just have to understand the laws of probability.

Regardless of how the club was - ??? What???

More like regardless of what our armchair supporters think PJ and the AFL have dragged us out the pooh without the supporters/members ever having a vote ( say ) in the MFC's destiny. Long may it continue.

[The Chazz 4,077]

28 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

You dont need a "crystal ball" - you just have to understand the laws of probability.

Regardless of how the club was - ??? What???

More like regardless of what our armchair supporters think PJ and the AFL have dragged us out the pooh without the supporters/members ever having a vote ( say ) in the MFC's destiny. Long may it continue.

You only need to look at Nathan Jones to see what the right attitude can do for you.  Even in our dark times, he was a shining light.  It's attitude, ethic and respect.  Some have it in spades, some have it but don't do anything about it, others have NFI what it is.

You clearly have an emotional attachment to CC and/or BP, I respect that.  I have an emotional attachment to the MFC.  But sane people would clearly be able to see our drafting was woeful during their tenure.  If the Head of Recruitment can't take a massive amount of blame for that, then our discussion/disagreement can't go any further.

[DaveyDee 421]

3 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

You only need to look at Nathan Jones to see what the right attitude can do for you.  Even in our dark times, he was a shining light.  It's attitude, ethic and respect.  Some have it in spades, some have it but don't do anything about it, others have NFI what it is.

Today its referred to as "coach-ability"  research & resources will find the right kids irrespective where you take them in the draft - but it all costs money. 

 

13 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

You only need to look at Nathan Jones to see what the right attitude can do for you.  Even in our dark times, he was a shining light.  It's attitude, ethic and respect.  Some have it in spades, some have it but don't do anything about it, others have NFI what it is.

You clearly have an emotional attachment to CC and/or BP, I respect that.  I have an emotional attachment to the MFC.  But sane people would clearly be able to see our drafting was woeful during their tenure.  If the Head of Recruitment can't take a massive amount of blame for that, then our discussion/disagreement can't go any further.

I have no emotional attachment to CC or BP - just dont accept the illogical argument they where to blame. Because if you where right they would never have got other jobs at AFL clubs - but they both did at numerous clubs and with more responsibility. 

I too have my attachment to the MFC. I just find it amusing some MFC supporters want to fix the symptoms and not the cause of the problems. Now dont get me wrong I fully understand - WHY - they only see the symptoms. Hence, our massive reliance of PJ and an AFL approved board for our future - long may it continue.  

Head of recruitment is only as good as the resources and people around him - then when the hand over of the kid is done to development staff again you need good people - sorry to say all costs money.