Home Grown Veterans.. Are we the worst club

[Diamond_Jim 11,843]

Hi

I was reading the other day that after the recent delistings, other than Jetta and Jones we now have no home grown (drafted) MFC player over the age of 25 .... (could have been 26)

No wonder we have problems.......

For the statistically inclined does this make us the worst recruiting team for the relevant period?

[Scipio 5,868]

9 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Hi

I was reading the other day that after the recent delistings, other than Jetta and Jones we now have no home grown (drafted) MFC player over the age of 25 .... (could have been 26)

No wonder we have problems.......

For the statistically inclined does this make us the worst recruiting team for the relevant period?

Richmond weren't very good at around the same time and it doesn't help that guys like Howe, Frawley, Dunn and even Rivers went. 

But yes, our drafting throughout the corresponding years was atrocious.

[drdrake 3,042]

Yep a decade of draft failure from 2000-2010 has lead to this, not many winners outside Jones in that period

[Demon Jack 6,329]

14 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Hi

I was reading the other day that after the recent delistings, other than Jetta and Jones we now have no home grown (drafted) MFC player over the age of 25 .... (could have been 26)

No wonder we have problems.......

For the statistically inclined does this make us the worst recruiting team for the relevant period?

Add Watts who turned 26 at the start of the year to that list as well, but point taken.

Our recruiting between 2008 and 2010 has really set us back in this department. Former players like Jordan Gysberts, Luke Tapscott, Addam Maric, James Strauss and Sam Blease (all first round draft picks) are now all in that 26-27 year old age bracket that we desperately lack. 

[drdrake 3,042]

21 minutes ago, Demon Jack said:

Add Watts who turned 26 at the start of the year to that list as well, but point taken.

Our recruiting between 2008 and 2010 has really set us back in this department. Former players like Jordan Gysberts, Luke Tapscott, Addam Maric, James Strauss and Sam Blease (all first round draft picks) are now all in that 26-27 year old age bracket that we desperately lack. 

Try 2000-2011, we drafted some absolute donkeys.  I think our recruiting manager for most of that period popped over to Richmond after completely failing with us, stuffed them up for a number of years as well.  

[Diamond_Jim 11,843]

Thanks for the replies

Other than the simple lack of skills etc that it means on game days I think it has also been destructive of any attempt to build a club culture. Sure we can have the trappings of the guernsey and the honour boards etc but the player continuity where the club culture is handed down between the generations is sadly lacking.

Nice to think that the youngsters can build a culture but it will take a while.

As an aside on another thread a poll is running on whether Jones should remain as co-captain. At first I was ambivalent but for some of the reasons raised in this thread and moreover the terrible way we have treated our recent captains I think we need stability on this front for another few years at least.

[Wilson7 2,530]

39 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Hi

I was reading the other day that after the recent delistings, other than Jetta and Jones we now have no home grown (drafted) MFC player over the age of 25 .... (could have been 26)

No wonder we have problems.......

For the statistically inclined does this make us the worst recruiting team for the relevant period?

Col Graland as well DJ

[beelzebub 22,229]

A very interesting observation.

Shows how important it is to maintain a core of players together as they evolve through the years.

Always be afew that come and go but we've a desert ( currently )

Hopefully will change.

[Diamond_Jim 11,843]

2 minutes ago, DavidNeitz9 said:

Col Graland as well DJ

ah yes.. sorry forgot about him... probably would have been delisted to be honest had he not had another year on his contract.

credit to him ... he was a very good player for a considerable period

[Zoiikgarden 134]

Would be interesting to compare this to other clubs.

Agree that it certainly would be those players who would be the hungry ones to drive the club forward.

Look at Sydney.

[Little Goffy 12,657]

It is interesting to remember that a year ago I laughed at the fact that at Richmond 8 players have shared some 70% of all top-ten placings in their Best and Fairest since 2010.

On the one hand, it was definitely a sign of how they had failed to recruit and develop in the intervening years. Richmond's lack of depth was clearly their Achilles heel when it came to consistency or performing in finals. On the other hand, having that core quality group together, and becoming a mature and capable veteran set, gave the team a base which allowed quite a rapid transformation once the stars aligned and the enthusiastic kids and some good trade pick-ups filled the gap.

Of course, it is also worth noting that without Dustin Martin, I'd probably still just be laughing at Richmond. We all would be.

But what does all that mean for Melbourne?

Does it mean we should stick it out with Tyson, Watts, and McDonald, recognising that even if they have their flaws, they can provide an established AFL-quality core which will become more valuable as the extra years of experience make them wiser players, calmer players, and (optimisitically) players who have corrected or learnt to minimise the impact their flaws?

I would say yes. I would say it is the alternative to forever heaping pressure on kids to be the next saviour.

It is always necessary to delist players who just aren't up to AFL level, or to trade players who have been clearly surpassed by others in their roles or where the relationship with the club has broken down. But the proverbial 'stalwarts' matter.

 

[praha 10,293]

When you need to bring in guys like Lewis, Cross, Vince to "lead", it's a massive indictment on the leadership crop and the club's own recruitment policy before then. We've basically had to recruit from outside the club to get people in to play the role Melbourne-drafted player should already be filling. 

We're still a long way off, and as Viney said, it's difficult to buy in when you don't feel "part" of something. That's a learning process, and it takes years. 

[hemingway 7,597]

The negativity is overwhelming.  Slit your wrist stuff. Some interesting observations but can't we bit a little more positive and optimistic. 

[Diamond_Jim 11,843]

20 minutes ago, hemingway said:

The negativity is overwhelming.  Slit your wrist stuff. Some interesting observations but can't we bit a little more positive and optimistic. 

being so near yet so far over the last two years after ten years of nothing does tend to temper the optimism Ernest.

Actually I am upbeat on the next five years but I know that it wont come easy.

 

[Lord Travis 10,184]

Yes we recruited poorly, but it can't be blamed solely on recruiting. Our development of players over the past 10 years has been the worst in the league. In my opinion it's the player development that has been our biggest issue, not so much the recruiting itself. Roos said he would have loved to have got Watts as an 18 year old, as he was basically spoiled goods by the time he got his hands on him. The Bailey era was too up and down and forgiving. The Neeld era swung too far the other way with negativity. Roos evened us out and finally started developing players properly. Let's see if the Goodwin era can continue on with this.

[whatwhat say what 19,123]

home grown dees over 25 and over at the conclusion of this season (before delistings etc.):

jones
watts
garland
spencer
jetta
plus t smith as a rookie

gawn is turning 25 at the end of 2017, maynard is about to do, and trengove turned 25 at the start of the finals series

could you argue pedo was 'homegrown' as he's really emerged with us?

we definitely skew young and have brought in experienced players to top up

we haven't been helped by the likes of frawley, howe, etc walking out on us

[Biffen 12,343]

Yes we are the worst at this.

Prior to Nietz , the Tulip was the games holder on 272 ,which is low.

Jones will probably crack the 350 Inshallah.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,522]

4 hours ago, praha said:

When you need to bring in guys like Lewis, Cross, Vince to "lead", it's a massive indictment on the leadership crop and the club's own recruitment policy before then. We've basically had to recruit from outside the club to get people in to play the role Melbourne-drafted player should already be filling. 

We're still a long way off, and as Viney said, it's difficult to buy in when you don't feel "part" of something. That's a learning process, and it takes years. 

We're not a long way off at all, in fact I think we're extremely close. But for bad luck with injuries and a few one goal games going against us we could easily be in the position Richmond find themselves in this weekend.