Farewell Jack Watts

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

28 minutes ago, mo64 said:

People on here would have no idea of discussions between the FD and Watts throughout the year. We know that Watts was disciplined during the preseason, and when know the club wasn't happy with how he came back from his rehab with a hammy. And yet Watts still seems to be in denial. And we're still talking in terms of his potential after 9 seasons.

This reminds me of another player, where after nine NQR seasons, we were still talking about his "potential".

Eventually the penny dropped for club, supporters, everyone except the player, and he was shunted off to another club where he proved all over again that if you haven't shown it after nine years at one club, you probably aren't going to show it anywhere.

 

Prize for who can guess the mystery player.

[Demons1858 1,742]

3 hours ago, London Demon said:

Look at Q4 of the Carlton game, ie the first one, round 2. Watts's role was crucial in us winning that game.  Wihtout him we would have lost. Or take another one: that breakthrough win against Hawthorn in 2016.  That little toe poke kick to Tyson which got us a crucial goal, then (later) that razor sharp 50m kick to Tyson for the gaol that killed them off.   He's not an accumulator (I may have misspelt that..) , racking up 30 touches week after week, like Oliver.   Nor is he a physical player who busts packs, like Viney.  But those guys haven't got the skills that Watts has to split open a defence by a penetrating kick, or to kick a crucial goal from an angle. His disposal are fewer but in many ways dealier.   A team is just that, a team, it takes a combination of severals kinds of player, working as one,  to be successfu.  And a guy like Watts is just as much an essential part of that as say an inside player like Jones. For God's sake keep him.  

Mostly true.

But also true is he is not meeting minimum standard in important areas and other youngsters see it and are influenced by it (and if you don't meet minimum standards then you are not fulfilling your contractual obligations):

* clearly his training standards and rehab are poor

* clearly his off season preparation is poor

* his leadership skills are non existent for an experienced 9 yr player

* while he provides drive in some key games he is just as equally likely to have a complete shocker in games when we need our more experienced players to stand up or at least show some interest and lead the way

* his form fluctuates to put it kindly (missed the important mid to late part of the year due to form  and I assume poor rehab)

* he lacks intensity and urgency which leaks goals at the other end and sets are poor example to the younger players 

Granted his best footy is elite (and I would miss watching him play) but it's not enough if the other side of your game is so poor. I support the club in this but wish it didn't play out in the media but who are we kidding, its Jack Watts the darling of supporters and the human headline, it was always going to be messy if Jack didn't want to leave

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

3 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Any other player sure, but not JW, he doesn't have it in him consistently try, it's not in his nature.

I saw Jack play a bit of school footy and i know kids who played Basketball with him. 

He was a total gun without having to try. That is the crux. 

I believe one preseason with the riot act under his nose is worth it. A gamble yes, but his skill level can be that good. 

But i fully understand the club washing its hands of the old Jack. 

He and only he can change IF he wants to

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He was a total gun without having to try. That is the crux. 

I believe one preseason with the riot act under his nose is worth it. A gamble yes, but his skill level can be that good.

Isn't that funny. We used to say that about my mystery player too.

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

Just now, Mazer Rackham said:

Isn't that funny. We used to say that about my mystery player too.

I know who that is. 

Sadly he was a lost cause a long way out. 

Watts has far more natural talent. 

If he goes i won’t lose sleep over it, but i want to make sure that we get every last drop out of Watts

[Jibroni 4,987]

8 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

This reminds me of another player, where after nine NQR seasons, we were still talking about his "potential".

Eventually the penny dropped for club, supporters, everyone except the player, and he was shunted off to another club where he proved all over again that if you haven't shown it after nine years at one club, you probably aren't going to show it anywhere.

 

Prize for who can guess the mystery player.

Im assuming a boy who ended up at Freo then fell into the abyss.

Yes I agree how many wake up calls does a player need!!!

 

[Dr.D 1,771]

i'm just sick of watts not going hard at the footy. i'd prefer tom mcdonald torching the ball in the d50 than see Watts playing bruise free footy

Edited October 4, 2017 by Dr.D

[SFebes 4,884]

10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I saw Jack play a bit of school footy and i know kids who played Basketball with him. 

He was a total gun without having to try. That is the crux. 

I believe one preseason with the riot act under his nose is worth it. A gamble yes, but his skill level can be that good. 

But i fully understand the club washing its hands of the old Jack. 

He and only he can change IF he wants to

Don't get me wrong, a firing JW is a game-breaker but we just don't see the effort consistently enough. Always just jogging around like a deer in the headlights. I'm not convinced on Goodwin yet, but I am on Mahoney and I will back the guy in 100% if Watts goes. After years of mediocrity, I find it hilarious that those same fans now don't want it now that the club has started to be ruthless. Jack is a nice boy, but with no desire. Short term pain and LT gain. Last thing we want is another generation of youngsters who didn't step up due to poor cultural and behavioural habits, we can't afford to tread on thin ice with that.

Edited October 4, 2017 by SFebey

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

3 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

i'm just sick of watts not going hard at the footy. i'd prefer tom mcdonald torching the ball in the d50 than see Watts playing bruise free footy

You've made your dislike of Watts abundantly clear.

You're beginning to sound like Tony Abbott.

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

Just now, SFebey said:

Don't get me wrong, a firing JW is a game-breaker but we just don't see the effort consistently enough. I'm not convinced on Goodwin yet, but I am on Mahoney and I will back the guy in 100% if Watts goes. After years of mediocrity, I find it hilarious that those same fans now don't want it now that the club has started to be ruthless. Jack is a nice boy, but with no desire. Short term pain and LT gain. Last thing we want is another generation of youngsters who didn't step up due to poor cultural and behavioural habits, we can't afford to tread on thin ice with that.

Jack has a lack of desire because the club and the football world have always given him the No1 Draft tag

That now has gone. Jack will have to fight for a spot if he stays, and that could be a great thing

Worth a gamble to me

[SFebes 4,884]

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Jack has a lack of desire because the club and the football world have always given him the No1 Draft tag

That now has gone. Jack will have to fight for a spot if he stays, and that could be a great thing

Worth a gamble to me

We failed Jack for sure, but Jack has always had the option and ability to step up for himself, instead of blaming the no.1 draft pick tag.

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

8 minutes ago, SFebey said:

We failed Jack for sure, but Jack has always had the option and ability to step up for himself, instead of blaming the no.1 draft pick tag.

 

Option being the word. 

Now there is NO option available. 

Thin line between failure and success

[rpfc 28,253]

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He had a career year in 2016 (not a "great" year but a good year nonetheless)

Signs a 3 year contract

Comes back in less than ideal condition after being content with his 2016 performance 

Makes amends after copping public criticism about his preparedness

Has a decent 2017 recapturing his form of 2016

Gets injured

A 2 week injury takes 4 weeks to return to senior footy due to his lack of preparation 

On return from injury he stinks it up against Port dropping chest marks, fumbling easy balls and having 9 disposals (the fewest for the MFC on the day)

He has a couple more poor efforts notabky against North in Tas

He gets dropped to Casey and returns for the final H&A game against the Pies where he is allegedly one of our better players (I haven't seen most of this game so can't comment)

That timeline seems pretty self explanatory and that's only the last 12 months - obviously the coaches/FD thought he'd turned the corner and then cracked it when he returned to preseason training last year. There's plenty of anecdotes about him liking the footy lifestyle, going out for beers 3 or 4 times a week etc. The coaches don't want guys like Petracca, Oliver, Hogan etc falling in to those bad habits, they want them to follow the lead of Viney and Jones who push themselves to the limit to get the best out of themselves.

Seriously, do people think Goodwin et al are gonna cut off their nose to spite their face just because of a perceived personality clash? Here's a novel idea maybe Watts actually has had a role to play in this and he's not just the innocent victim of a bastard coach. If Goodwin thought Watts would contribute to our rise up the ladder and our push for a flag don't you think he'd keep him around? Or do you honestly think hes that stupid that he would push him out just because he doesn't like him selling board shorts to hipsters?

 

If Watts' 2016 is not great for him - then you are still deluded about the kind of player he is and can become.

There is no 'potential' left - he is what he is - his best is 2016, and the start to 2017. That's it.

Subjective Conjecture I have bolded above.

Point me to the direct quote from the club about his injury being hampered by his 'poor preparation.' I understand his commitment at the start of the season wasn't good enough, it was written and discussed at length.

Anecdotes? Show them to me. And not that I wouldn't believe them - I would. But I have my own anecdotes about Gawn and Vince that make me cringe. Why is Watts on this altar by his lonesome? That was my question - not that he should not be there.

That last paragraph - is it trying to define my argument? That I am blaming Goodwin and absolving Watts of his ills? When have I said that?

My points are;

1. This has been poorly handled, and needlessly public.

2. Watts should not be the only one sacrificed on the altar of 'professionalism' and 'standards'.

3. That I think this is about loosening a tradeable asset as much as it is about setting the above standards.

My larger point about Jack Watts and the MFC this off-season has been that we need to change the narrative around Jack AND his perceived importance to the club, and not feed into it (http://demonland.com/forums/topic/42884-good-win-i-dont-know/). The pivot from 'heartbreaking' failure to make the finals, to publically haranguing Jack Watts' for his lack of commitment was almost immediate and holistic. Who is to blame for our failure?

If we are embracing honest talk - as some on here love Goodwin and Mahoney for embracing - then can we talk about 'who/what is to blame for our failure?'

Because it is not just Jack Watts. He would be down the list of reasons...

 

[PaulRB 6,342]

15 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

You've made your dislike of Watts abundantly clear.

You're beginning to sound like Tony Abbott.

 

Low blow Ron.

[Gator 17,276]

It's comforting to be on the opposite side to some who post here.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,825]

10 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Low blow Ron.

He could have said Rudd..

[jumbo returns 6,737]

9 hours ago, Dr.D said:

ok admittedly im not a jack watts fan. he has infuriated me from the start with his soft football and to be honest I'm a bit surprised that people aren't glad for the trade.

I acknowledge that it maybe couldve been handled a bit better but at the end of the day goodwin doesnt want watts in the team and blind freddy can see its because he plays weak footy.  Its not jacks fault, he just doesnt have that killer instinct to tackle or chase with ferocity. you can't teach that and why does everyone go mute when we talk about this issue. 

if we make finals next year i'd trust watts to kick straight but i would never trust him to put his head over the footy or back into packs etc. his efforts in the phyical department are up there with cale morton

Really? 

[Cards13 9,117]

Driving to a meeting and caught last bit of KB and Venom Denham. Denham stated Paul Connors (Watts manager) has said Watts won't be at Melb next year. 

[jackaub 1,402]

20 minutes ago, SFebey said:

We failed Jack for sure, but Jack has always had the option and ability to step up for himself, instead of blaming the no.1 draft pick tag.

 

Jack failed himself in my opinion

Never understood  the difference between being an exceptional underage player with great natural skills which unfortunately translated into the number 1 tag

He  always thought it was easy

The club let him get away with it

Surprise surprise Jack doesnt have the heart to take his own destiny in hand

In fact Jack has played as well as he is ever going to play

People on here should just accept that fact

The sporting world is littered with highly skilled early developers who lack the required work ethic to become great

Stay or go Jack will always just be Jack

[Dr. Gonzo 24,162]

1 hour ago, Unleash Hell said:

Is that the podcast?

Is there a link?

Thanks

https://www.sen.com.au/podcasts/dee-tales/

You can stream from there or download from the Dee Tales podcast feed. I recommend everyone give the WHOLE interview a listen

[Goodvibes 3,596]

8 hours ago, Akum said:

I'm interested to know whether you think Norm Smith would have tolerated the deficiencies pointed out in the post you quoted. Or whether it's just what Watts is bad at that's holding the team back, so we can safely ignore everyone else's weaknesses and mistakes?

I probably don't need to respond because ProDee has made the point. But we're talking about effort. Football is a game of mistakes. If you were to analyse Dustin Martin's best games this year you would find them littered with errors. All players have flaws. All players make mistakes. I'm as frustrated as anyone when Tyson turns it over or Oscar gets pushed aside or Bugg misses from point blank range but the reality is these are weaknesses that those players are most certainly aware of and working on. Watts doesn't work hard enough. He has received the feedback and apparently has failed to respond appropriately. That's why people like me (who do indeed 'like' Jack) are frustrated. He does things very few on our list can do yet continues to frustrate coaches with his work ethic at training and preparation for games. I can deal with the missed tackles if I see him working on it. I can deal with his timid approach to aerial contests if I see him endeavouring to improve in this area. Long ago I acknowledged that he was a flawed player but chose to instead celebrate his rare gifts but effort is non-negotiable. If the coaches deem his effort levels unacceptable, who from outside the inner sanctum could possibly argue?

And in terms of Norm Smith, from the tales I've heard he valued a team-first mentality and succeeded because all players worked harder than every other club in the league. His adopted son lacked polish and became a legend of the game. I'm guessing he valued the same things Goodwin values.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Goodvibes

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

21 minutes ago, ProDee said:

It's comforting to be on the opposite side to some who post here.

I agree

[Lucifers Hero 39,556]

I've had enough of how this club has publicly put Jack down, all year.  Warranted or not no player deserves to hear his captain and coach regularly chastise him in public.

If Jack stays against Goodwin's wishes, I can only see the diatribe from him and Jones to continue. It may even intensify.  Very difficult to perform in a toxic environment. 

So, I would like Jack to go. 

Hold your head high Jack for having survived a toxic club for most of the nine years.  As a human being you deserve better than what mfc and its supporters can give you.

Get out while you can Jack.   Go where you will be appreciated and where you are supported and 'set up for success'.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Go the Biff 3,414]

25 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Driving to a meeting and caught last bit of KB and Venom Denham. Denham stated Paul Connors (Watts manager) has said Watts won't be at Melb next year. 

No. Denham said Connors won't let Watts go back to Melbourne. Was purely an opinion with no input from Connors

[pitmaster 3,513]

2 hours ago, Skin Deeamond said:

Angst

Argument

Toe the line

Go back to school 

You missed accelerate (double l in the original) but otherwise nice work SD. I always like to see toe the line corrected, and as for people resorting to the German language when there is a perfectly fine English option - anguish - it simply defies logic.

So spot on SD, but I would still give Sailing Demon a solid pass for mostly clean copy, apart from the odd literal blue, and also commend the Sailor for a thoughtful analysis from one of JW's generation.

Now to you, Sailor, can you share with us your initial reaction when confronted by your coach/boss? Was your epiphany instantaneous or did you need to digest the criticism before you could wear it? (It seems Jack still has some way to travel on that journey.)