2 hours ago, robbiefrom13 said:

Just for a bit of fairness, too, Watts may not be the best tackler, but he gets down back at the exhaustion end of quarters and games, and saves goals.  Like he did within seconds of his final goal on the QB.  He has done that for several years, many times.  I have wondered if he was asked to, probably was I suppose, though he doesn't seem to get much credit for doing it.  He works very hard, and if you look at any vision of end-of-quarter huddles in the godawful Nield days you'll see Jack intently listening and egging his team-mates on.  He is an eminently positive element in the club, and it is just not speaking truthfully to characterise him as a lazy and self-satisfied downhill skier.  

On here too often we didn't value Jurrah as the unique and very talented creative/offensive player he was, with post after post criticising his defensive work.  Might as well bag out Ricky Jackson's ruck work.  Or Petracca's tank.  Etc.  

Armchair critics do a wonderful job explaining what they don't rate; reminds me of a lovely anecdote Horowitz told about his father-in-law Toscanini.  The great conductor had just done Beethoven and as soon as interval was over he was going to do Mozart - but before he could get to the pit he was bailed up by a society dame who launched into her analysis of what was lacking in Beethoven.  Finally unable to listen to any more, Toscanini interrupted, saying "Madam, what you think doesn't matter."

Well, rude, yes, but he was obviously right as far as Beethoven goes.  Some people assume their own expertise when there is nothing to support it, and they have no shame splashing their ignorance and inanities around.

Demonland is not full of supporters; it's full of know-alls who dismiss and slander athletes doing stuff most of these critics cannot understand and have only ever dreamed about.  Spout their hairy-chested nonsense shamelessly.  So what if the club does get a good deal when they cast Watts aside?  Are we in Nield's camp, not seeing them as people?  

It is a disgrace to cast off a loyal servant who faced up to gorillas in the ruck week after week, surprising everyone with his resilience and effectiveness when so out of his weight, only to end up injured - at which point we are callously and ungratefully hop into him and his failings, completely disregard what he says publicly about his own strong preferences, when he's thrust into the spotlight by the club; and we start haggling over the body and what we might get in the aftermath, even before he's gone.  And dignify it with calling it a "forum"!  

Nah, shout your abuse at my back, and yes, I'll close the door as I leave.  

I say, shame on the lot of you! 

Jack Watts wants to stay... In spite of failings he still is one of the only if not only player who uses the ball effectively, can kick telling goals, and can play multiple roles. If Goodwin and others trade him out for anything less than a player that can do what he can.... I'm outa here!! I can just see him tearing it up next year with??? Demonland will go into meltdown!! 

52 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Jack Watts wants to stay... In spite of failings he still is one of the only if not only player who uses the ball effectively, can kick telling goals, and can play multiple roles. If Goodwin and others trade him out for anything less than a player that can do what he can.... I'm outa here!! I can just see him tearing it up next year with??? Demonland will go into meltdown!! 

People said the same thing when we traded Sylvia out, this will be no different. If he ends up at port I’d say there is a fair chance he ends up playing some portion of next year in the reserves. He will be a fringe player for them at best.

Roos' ego is so big, that according to him, everything he did was the right way to do it. Going in an opposite direction simply means that they (in this case Goody) is wrong according to Roos. Roos was also very stubborn with his match set-ups, often making changes way too late or not at all, at least Goody is prepared to make changes and throw the team around to get something going.

Sure he did wonders for our club and we desperately needed his help, but let's not forget, his last game as MFC coach was a loss by more than 100 points, so he obviously didn't do everything right.

Roos knew that Watts doesn't handle negative criticism, or seemingly constructive criticism too well. With Watts it seems to be all sunshine and everything is going well, the moment clouds role in or things get a little bumpy it's time to duck for cover.

This is AFL, the big league, not school or u18's footy. If you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen.

The Ox on SEN reckons Goodwin and/ or a certain assistant or development coaching staff wants him out while the recruiting and lost management  department are desperate to retain him.

He also thought it would be a massive mistake trading him.

I just can't accept that we're going to trade out our best kick when week after week we drop games through terrible disposal.  The one guy in our side who can hit a forward target and they want to get rid of him.  I guess we'll just have to be happy with high bombs to the hot spot and watching the ball rebound the length of the ground for an opposition goal every time. 

It's no longer possible to delete posts, even accidental ones.

I was simplying trying to edit a typo in an earlier post from 'to' to now read 'too'.

And now this. Sorry folks.

Hope the club keeps Watts, by the way. ?

 

8 hours ago, Dee Dubya said:

His performance against North? If that's your criteria, then 90% of the team should be traded.

No, read my post again. I said it was the nail in the coffin. The end of the road. Not based exclusively on that game. And yes I've also called for other players to be given the boot. The fewer players still lingering from the Bailey and Neeld years, the better. It's cutting away the fat. Imo only Viney and Gawn from that group should be untouchable (Hogan too if you count him as Neeld era). The North game was really just a symbol of his career. We can expect that from Weeds because he's play 10 games. Watts has played AFL for 10 years and still puts in performances like that. And you can't deny it because he was then dropped, and it's arguably the match that sealed his fate.

I think if Jack gets traded a few supporters on here need to be careful about jumping to conclusions based on some fairly flimsy logic. Just because some of the FD aren't unanimous about trading him doesn't mean that the decision to trade him is wrong.  

Goodwin does not equal Neeld. There is no indication to me that he's a tyrant like Neeld; what I've heard since assuming control is how the players love him.   Just because Roos wouldn't trade Jack similarly doesn't mean that Roos thinks Goodwin is wrong.  Paul made mention of the fact he didn't know what was going on with the situation.

Jack is an amazingly talented footballer who can do things many on the list can't and that is a very good reason not to trade him, however both the FD and players this year have vocalised their disappointment in his preparation and I assume that in terms of setting standards that a threshold has been reached with Jack.

We really don't know what his relationship with Goodwin is, (it maybe better than most here assume) nor do we understand what the conversation between them has been.  I assume it was open and transparent and others at the club were aware of what was being asked.  IF  Jack hasn't met that, or worse has failed to honour any commitments he's given - then how does any coach look the rest of the playing group in the eye.

 

 

6 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

The Ox on SEN reckons Goodwin and/ or a certain assistant or development coaching staff wants him out while the recruiting and lost management  department are desperate to retain him.

He also thought it would be a massive mistake trading him.

That comment plus other posters saying key players want Watts out is sounding like Stringer Mark11!  Not in the sense of the level of misdemeanour but more in the dynamics around how is being pushed out of the club.

 

Goodwin is a Rookie coach.  As @Ron Burgundyeloquently says in above post: The problem with most first year coaches is that they try too hard. They squeeze the grip too hard, they lack soft hands, they micro manage far too much.  Let him breathe Simon.

I would like to see Goodwin take up the challenge to get the best from Jack rather than turf him out and some other club reap the reward with a coach who treats each player as an individual and knows which buttons to press to achieve their best.  

At the moment it looks like he is washing his hands of 'a problem' that he seems unable, impatient or unwilling to try and 'fix'.

4 minutes ago, grazman said:

I think if Jack gets traded a few supporters on here need to be careful about jumping to conclusions based on some fairly flimsy logic.

Goodwin does not equal Neeld.  Just because some of the FD aren't unanimous about trading him doesn't mean the decision to trade him is wrong.  

Agree with you on the Goodwin comment, but if the desicion is to trade him it doesn't mean it's right either.

Our opinions vary but the verdict will be played out over the next couple of seasons.

1 minute ago, Demon77 said:

Agree with you on the Goodwin comment, but if the desicion is to trade him it doesn't mean it's right either.

Our opinions vary but the verdict will be played out over the next couple of seasons.

Sorry, a case of premature posting on my behalf, my system locked up before I could get out what I was trying to say.

4 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

The Ox on SEN reckons Goodwin and/ or a certain assistant or development coaching staff wants him out while the recruiting and lost management  department are desperate to retain him.

He also thought it would be a massive mistake trading him.

No contest.

Not sure if it was deliberate, but it made me smile.  I'd like the last 11 years of my football life back please.

4 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

The Ox on SEN reckons Goodwin and/ or a certain assistant or development coaching staff wants him out while the recruiting and lost management  department are desperate to retain him.

He also thought it would be a massive mistake trading him.

The list management team being overuled by the senior coach is very common across all AFL clubs.

this is all about value. If we can turn watts leaving into us getting a net win it could be good for eveyone

4 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

at least Goody is prepared to make changes and throw the team around to get something going.

Can't remember a lot of creativity in this department, notwithstanding some poor decisions at the selection table and ill advised coin toss decisions...

Jack Watts offered a promotion:

from Whipping Boy to Scapegoat.

When asked Jack replied "such an honour really, just thought i was only the sacrificial lamb but to be held responsible for so much is something I'll treasure for all my time at the Dees"

Love Jack, but this reminds me of the colin Sylvia decision. If we get someone of Vinces quality I'd be wrapt.

Just now, Pipefitter said:

Love Jack, but this reminds me of the colin Sylvia decision. If we get someone of Vinces quality I'd be wrapt.

I very much doubt it.

9 hours ago, Goodvibes said:

Watts loves the club? Absolutely.

He is clearly a decent individual? Most certainly.

He is talented? Indeed.

He is popular. For sure.

He is MFC? A fine embodiment of the past 9 years perhaps.

He craves ultimate success at this club? So so much evidence to the contrary.

I'm going to miss him if he goes, but I completely understand the position of the footy department. My first instinct was "please no" mainly because I genuinely believe in the first four statements I've quoted above. I also realized after more rational thought that my main concern was what he might manage at another club. What a loser mentality that is. The word culture is so over-used in footy but this decision certainly won't cost us a premiership but it may just send the message to the rest of the list that helps us win one. We were so close this year. And I'm not talking about the .5% that cost us finals, I'm talking premierships. And premiership teams don't have passengers or those who have a good month of footy here or there. They have 22 players all pulling in the right direction who consistently meet the standards determined by the coaching staff - at the club, away from the club, during pre-season, before pre-season and in games. We've seen enough sadly. My respect for Goodwin, McCartney, Mahoney and Jackson continues to grow. We're in good hands.

Well summised, you are probably closest to what Goodwin and co. are thinking, with that said the logical summation or conclusion is what BB pointedly says below:

5 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Jack Watts offered a promotion:

from Whipping Boy to Scapegoat.

When asked Jack replied "such an honour really, just thought i was only the sacrificial lamb but to be held responsible for so much is something I'll treasure for all my time at the Dees"

The final act of the chosen one, the messiah, may be to perish for the sins of all the players and coaching and development staff.

Quite fitting really...

9 hours ago, mo64 said:

It's been mentioned before, but the reaction by many is akin to the uproar at Hawthorn when they traded Trent Croad to Freo.

So I thought I'd have a look to see what they got in exchange for Croad and Luke McPharlin. Well, with those picks they got a couple of plodders in Luke Hodge and Sam Mitchell.

If only Clarko had of listened to the supporters before trading away one of their favourite sons, which in turn destroyed the fabric of the club.

You premise much on the notion we'll score well from pushing out Jack. You might want to prepare for disappointment. 

Goody and Macca have an agenda. They should. Its what they do. Im seriously starting to question how sane that agenda is. 

We won't be getting a Hodge or a Mitchell, let alone both. Goody McCantwin just want him gone like Bevo wants Stringer out, then all will be right in the world !!

History will judge. 

Wonder how Watts will get on with David the Koch when he has one of his off days?

Dom Tyson has stated publicly that he hopes watts stays and he's to important to trade. 

Reckon he will get a talking to about that

12 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Gawn, Viney and Lewis. 

Even 1 player mentioning means it's an issue.  Players will not usually speak out about it.  

One thing I have learned from years on DL and that is that posters, including  some who have  never even seen a training session,  know more about a player,  than the coaches and fellow players who spend all day with them, for up to 11 months of the year and who also happen to play alongside them. 

What would any of those players or coaches know unless of course they read DL. 

Of course we can all have opinions too, but we need to remember the many people involved in making these decisions and the knowledge they must have about the people they are deciding about. 

37 minutes ago, Pipefitter said:

Love Jack, but this reminds me of the colin Sylvia decision. If we get someone of Vinces quality I'd be wrapt.

Sorry, can't recall Jack ever crashing his car in the wee small hours.

2 minutes ago, Abe said:

Dom Tyson has stated publicly that he hopes watts stays and he's to important to trade. 

Reckon he will get a talking to about that

In shock developments Tyson traded back to GWS under a little known 'warrantee clause' 

Dom left under no illusions as to Watt warranted that !

4 minutes ago, Abe said:

Dom Tyson has stated publicly that he hopes watts stays and he's to important to trade. 

Reckon he will get a talking to about that

A prolific but wasteful comment?