3 hours ago, bing181 said:

About the only thing that's staggering is that people think that the Lever deal is staggering.

Thank god some of you aren't "negotiating" for us. The object of the exercise is to get the player you want, there are no bragging rights in not getting a deal done. To come out of that Trade Period with our picks intact but nothing to show for it but Harley Balic would have been a disaster, especially in light of what Lever brings.

It’s easy to negotiate when u give them what they want. Any of us could have negotiated the Lever and Watts deals cause they got what they wanted.

Negotiating is an art, giving them what they want or taking what they offer is not negotiating. 

Edited October 19, 20177 yr by DemonOX

3 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

Has the Hogan trade gone through yet?

Not yet. Still waiting. Once that one is done we can offer pick 2 and 5 to North for Ben Brown.

We were the only team to not do a trade on the final day of trade period. Have to wonder if Mahoney even showed up or if he called it a day after Wednesday.

9 hours ago, drdrake said:

Sorry we have been addressing our list issues since 2006 with no real progress and by giving up 2 first round picks the likelihood of us addressing what we need is not good.

Our list issues will be fixed by the natural development & growth of the talent on our list currently.

I think with the addition of Lever we have a top 4 team for 2018...the competition has levelled off now and we're as good a chance as any to take the prize.

Saying we've made no real progress since 2006 is a croc...

8 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

That very well may be the case, but Lachie Weller is definitely not an A-grade mid.

You're right, I'm wrong.

More "Emerging mid" (or even "Emerging half back").

Best to worst trades 

Weller for pick 2

Gibbs for two first rounders

Cameron for 12

Old man for 2nd round pick

Lever for two firsts

Smith for 11 with change back

Saad

Watts 

Stringer.

I think it is hard to argue with this order. 

Our trade value on Lever was about right.  All the contracted players cost more (excluding smelly ones... smith has issues with ankle) and Lever was the only good uncontracted one.

In regards to leverage blah blah blah... I am not sure Melbourne had any.  Lever would never have got to us in ND for pick 10.  St Kilda or Collingwood would have grabbed him.

11 hours ago, DemonOX said:

It’s easy to negotiate when u give them what they want. Any of us could have negotiated the Lever and Watts deals cause they got what they wanted.

Negotiating is an art, giving them what they want or taking what they offer is not negotiating. 

You need to know all the circumstances.

Watts we put out to offer so playing hard ball like thr dogs, upsetting Connors wasnt really an option IMO

Port were the only club really genuinely interested in Watts on the end, Port were also brining in players not selling so i don't know how you expected to get more value in one horse race.

Lever you have more of a valid point but in the end the Gibbs deal wqs more expensive to.the Crows then the Lever deal so again I think your points not valid

I think your making [censored] up because your upset and all the factors point to Mahoney being quiet competent. But it's your opinion and you want to run with it so all is good.

Edited October 19, 20177 yr by Unleash Hell

8 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

You need to know all the circumstances.

Watts we put out to offer so playing hard ball like thr dogs, upsetting Connors wasnt really an option IMO

Port were the only club really genuinely interested in Watts on the end, Port were also brining in players not selling so i don't know how you expected to get more value in one horse race.

Lever you have more of a valid point but in the end the Gibbs deal wqs more expensive to.the Crows then the Lever deal so again I think your points not valid

I think your making [censored] up because your upset and all the factors point to Mahoney being quiet competent. But it's your opinion and you want to run with it so all is good.

The Watts exit was handled abysmally by the club which was part of the reason we took what we got and didn’t negotiate because everyone new we wanted him gone. Again poor negotiation skills by th club. 

Imo I’m glad we got Lever but over paid. 

And I’m not upset just frustrated and angry with what we gave up and what we let go.

I sure as hell wouldn’t want the MFC negotiating anything for me. 

Hi IsI

8 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

The Watts exit was handled abysmally by the club which was part of the reason we took what we got and didn’t negotiate because everyone new we wanted him gone. Again poor negotiation skills by th club. 

Imo I’m glad we got Lever but over paid. 

And I’m not upset just frustrated and angry with what we gave up and what we let go.

I sure as hell wouldn’t want the MFC negotiating anything for me. 

Is your plan to repeat the same sentiment over and over and over on every single thread?

7 hours ago, rjay said:

Our list issues will be fixed by the natural development & growth of the talent on our list currently.

I think with the addition of Lever we have a top 4 team for 2018...the competition has levelled off now and we're as good a chance as any to take the prize.

Saying we've made no real progress since 2006 is a croc...

We can judge this at the end of the 2018 season, we completely stuffed up our list from 2000-2013 so lets see how good our players can be now with 2-4 years under there belts, to me we have to many NQR players getting games

16 minutes ago, drdrake said:

we completely stuffed up our list from 2000-2013

Can't argue with that...

17 minutes ago, drdrake said:

to me we have to many NQR players getting games

I think all clubs do now, look at the last 2 premiers...

20 minutes ago, Goodvibes said:

Hi IsI

Is your plan to repeat the same sentiment over and over and over on every single thread?

Didn’t realise I was limited to what I can post and where. I must have missed that in the Terms & Conditions. 

I am also allowed to respond to posters last time I looked too. 

Maybe I will just cut and past my response then they will be exactly the same!

14 hours ago, Biffen said:

Untied we stand, individually we are a spineless parasite.

Biff, have you been to BBO's dungeon again? 

15 hours ago, brendan said:

Absolutely laughable some of the posters on this site, saying the trade week was a disappointment Is just mind boggling 

1: we got lever who is the best young defender in the game

2: we got balic for a bag of chips

3: we got rid of watts who doesn’t fit our list profile 

4: still have 3 picks in the 2nd round 

has been a very good trade period for us, and no we didn’t overpay for lever it was a very fair deal 

Agree, Norf's trade week was disappointing although as Titus said, at least they kept their War Chest in tact

 

12 hours ago, DemonOX said:

It’s easy to negotiate when u give them what they want. Any of us could have negotiated the Lever and Watts deals cause they got what they wanted.

Negotiating is an art, giving them what they want or taking what they offer is not negotiating. 

The real skill in this negotiation was not in dealing with the Crows, it was in convincing Lever with absolute clarity and certainty that his long term future will be at the MFC.

 

58 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

The Watts exit was handled abysmally by the club which was part of the reason we took what we got and didn’t negotiate because everyone new we wanted him gone. Again poor negotiation skills by th club. 

Imo I’m glad we got Lever but over paid. 

And I’m not upset just frustrated and angry with what we gave up and what we let go.

I sure as hell wouldn’t want the MFC negotiating anything for me. 

Again, do you really think that clubs wouldn't have intimate knowledge of Watts' attitude, work ethic, etc?

If we kept quiet and got the Watts trade done with no public announcements, a lot of the nuffies on here would've expecting a first rounder.  No club in their right mind would've paid that.  By coming out and criticising him in the way they did, it helped prepare the intelligent ones that we wanted him gone, and we weren't going to be fussy what we got for him.

I honestly think, given there was only one buyer, that we did very well out of the Watts deal.

And you know my thoughts on the Lever trade.

15 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

if we use the Lachie Weller for pick 2 trade, one could say we paid unders for Lever in comparison.

What were the GC thinking?

While it's definitely overs, you can see their reasoning for it.  They have enough young, top end talent from the last handful of drafts.  They are now in a position where they would rather pick up known talent that meets a particular criteria (i.e. age, position, etc).  They are fast running out of time (if not already) to get more wins on the board.  Weller will assist in that area in 2018, they clearly think that pick 2 this year wouldn't.

It's exactly the same situation that we found ourselves in with Lever.  Our core group of top end talent are still very, very young.  We are far better off adding more elite talent in that same age demographic, especially one of Lever's age/quality/position, rather than going back to the draft to find the same type of player.

This is where I am hoping Carlton are totally f-ing themselves right up.  Yes, they are getting top end talent coming in, but it's at the expense of senior players who still have some to offer.  Yes, they are adding some experience through the likes of Darcy Lang and the GWS rejects, but they aren't of the same quality as Gibbs, Tuohy, etc.  Their supporters also expect success each year, and they will be getting very restless if there isn't significant improvement in 2018, which I can't see happening.  The angry midget in their coaches box will have many sleepless nights, starting day 1 of preseason.  Good.

Trading doesn't occur in a vacuum. You can only deal with the hand you have. Sometimes you give a little more sometimes you get a little more. The critical thing is shoring up the key positions and getting the players that your list needs. You can't do that in one draft. There are 17 other clubs trying to do the same thing and spoil your party. The moaning about 'we got pick 31 and it should have been pick 26' therefore we should have kept Watts or such is meaningless if you believe that Watts is not part of the future of the club. Similarly with Lever. If you believe is a key plank in the team for the next 10 years then you do what you have to in order to get him.

People forget that no-one wanted to come to the Dees in the past. That's why the Lewis deal was such a meaningful statement. We now have Lever. Next year we might get another key player. 

I am very glad that some here aren't in charge of list management. Being a good bloke is not a requirement for being on the list.

Our list management team has done an exceptional job if you want to compare it to 2008-2013. It doesn't mean they will get every decision right but our team is definitely stronger with more talent than it has been for a decade. They have made a statement with Watts rightly or wrongly. I happen to think its right. We were never going to improve with Watts after 9 years.

We have all complained about the team being soft and capitulating easy games. A mindset change is required and I hope what we are seeing from the list management dept translates to on field.

And as usual we won't know probably until 12 months time.

Go Dees.

 

 

1 hour ago, DemonOX said:

Didn’t realise I was limited to what I can post and where. I must have missed that in the Terms & Conditions. 

I am also allowed to respond to posters last time I looked too. 

Maybe I will just cut and past my response then they will be exactly the same!

I was just expressing a view that your attack of the footy dept and their approach to trade week has been noted. Just wondering if you have a new angle to your attack to add or whether you've got it out of your system now. I personally find it tiresome but acknowledge your right to express yourself - again and again and again.

16 hours ago, Biffen said:

Buddy and Clarkson began fighting in March of the year he left.Buddy put an ultimatum to Hawthorn that said "it's him or me" and it was him so he walked for 10 mill.

I need training from Buddy on how to lose ultimatums and influence people with more money than sense!

On 10/19/2017 at 10:36 AM, ignition. said:

Fair point. Carlton maxed out on that trade. Gibbs probably has two, maybe three good years left in him.

However, if we compare this to the Watts trade I feel like banging my head against a wall. Granted Watts doesn't have the track record like Gibbs, but I still think the MFC could have fought it out to acquire both of Port Adelaide's second round picks (#31 and #34). Especially considering we're paying for a fraction of his salary. 

THEY wanted JW out and they had an agenda obviously. How could anyone but Port be happy with the trade?  

They did the trade to get it out of the way.

2 hours ago, ManDee said:

Biff, have you been to BBO's dungeon again? 

many a truth said in zest 

4 hours ago, DemonOX said:

The Watts exit was handled abysmally by the club which was part of the reason we took what we got and didn’t negotiate because everyone new we wanted him gone. Again poor negotiation skills by th club. 

Imo I’m glad we got Lever but over paid. 

And I’m not upset just frustrated and angry with what we gave up and what we let go.

I sure as hell wouldn’t want the MFC negotiating anything for me. 

Haha it's all good mate 

Bring in 2018 go dees

@jnrmac is right - there is no vacuum. The worst deals were for the players that clubs wanted to get rid of.

Jake Nail made the comment last night on Fox.

You don't aim to win trades you trade to win games.

I think while we may have paid overs for Lever and got under's for Watts. Lever will help us win games.