On 20/06/2017 at 2:16 AM, Stingray said:

Not sure who or what rattled your cage but two things are clear: a) clearly quantity doesn't always mean you should expect quality. In posts that is..... and b) you should read before quoting others in future.

I stand by my comment wholeheartedly - I am aware JKH has been playing well in the 2's but in my opinion is not up to the quality of football we have played the last 2 weeks. And I hope he's not picked.

 

Good on you, will remember not to query your opinion in the future you obviously can't handle it

Don't care personally who is picked as long as they have a crack

Edited June 21, 20178 yr by Satyriconhome

While I can see the knock on JKH given his previous AFL form, he has not played one AFL game on the back of really good VFL form.

I'd like to see what he brings to the table after 3 weeks of great form in the 2's.

If Kennedy is out for 4 weeks, it not only gives us a good chance to win but it hurts their finals chances massively!

21 hours ago, DubDee said:

alright you're all hilarious with your memes (good-natured tone)

everyone bagging Frost being dropped, anyone care to say the tall they will drop? Crush O Macs confidence? Peedo is killing it. T Mac undroppable

 

All in good fun DD.  Your post wasn't stupid. It's impossible to imagine dropping any of the three KP defenders.

4 minutes ago, DubDee said:

If Kennedy is out for 4 weeks, it not only gives us a good chance to win but it hurts their finals chances massively!

Yeah huge double blow for them. We could very easily be playing off with them for the same finals spot.

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Sounds like Watts and Hibberd will both play according to Goody on SEN.

Josh Kennedy a certain out.  Gawny a certain starter.

I feel a lot more confident than I did last night. 

Realistically how effective will Gawn be after a long layoff?

This is my concern. 

2 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

Realistically how effective will Gawn be after a long layoff?

This is my concern. 

Very much agree

I would expect him to play on ball for no more than 50% and to spend around 30% on the bench with the rest up forward.

If Spencer were going well in the AFL team Gawn would have had a half game hit out at Casey. It is not disrespect for Gawn it is simply recognition of the demands placed on a ruckman.

4 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

Realistically how effective will Gawn be after a long layoff?

This is my concern. 

I was mulling this over with a mate who had the same concern. I reckon it comes down to why Gawn is a gun. What are his strengths. Running all day and being able to get where the ball's going to go. Intercept marks and marks inside our fifty. His hitouts are important, and I don't think his technique needs work. From what we're told his fitness has been super in his layoff. The big one for me though, is the hits he takes. Ruckmen running into him and tackling him. Bumping him. Anyone who's played the game knows you can be super fit engine wise, then you take one big genuine hit, and your energy is gone.

It'll be interesting, but I'm confident he'll be able to have a positive effect, if not a dominant one.

20 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

Realistically how effective will Gawn be after a long layoff?

This is my concern. 

3rd best and fairest 2016, All-Australian 2016. Brownlow Medal: 2016 votes 16; - See more at: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/player-profile/max-gawn#sthash.PU6TpIOy.dpuf

Edited June 21, 20178 yr by PaulRB

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Sounds like Watts and Hibberd will both play according to Goody on SEN.

Josh Kennedy a certain out.  Gawny a certain starter.

I feel a lot more confident than I did last night. 

We nearly beat them last year. Lost by 6 and we didn't score a goal in the last quarter. Had then on toast.

We should equip ourselves well and I am going for the win

 

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

We nearly beat them last year. Lost by 6 and we didn't score a goal in the last quarter. Had then on toast.

We should equip ourselves well and I am going for the win

 

Not to mention some favorable umpiring decisions to go their way.

With no Lycett or Kennedy likely, I would expect McGovern to play forward more often not that young Tom Barrass is back in the team. 

With Gawn back in I expect the influence of Vardy will be minimal in the ruck and when Gawn goes forward for a rest he'll clunk them from everywhere and kick multiple goals.

I'n very confident about this game.

5 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

I agree with you and DubDee - it's a structural issue.

When Frost and Hibberd came in OMac went out - that was a structural change but it was masked by OMac's form at the time.

Both Macs, Frost and Hibberd can't all play back there.  One ultimately has to come out.  And yet we've had thread after thread about our lack of KPD depth ...

 Contrary to popular belief TMac is a better ruck option than Pedersen and Pedersen is a better forward option than TMac - see the %s they've played those roles since half-time vs Collingwood.  TMac forward may be Earl Spalding at best - he can probably play there this week with Pedersen and Watts, with OMac and Frost back 

As you point out, it really becomes an issue when Hogan comes in.  One of TMac, OMac, Frost and Pedersen HAS to go out then.

An interesting analysis and if true rhe club would have a real dilemma.

I reckon pederson might be the unlucky one if indeed ir comes to pass they dont want to play all four. Reason being that synergy is critical to a backline playing the sort of zone defence we are using. Changing  dernders upsets that synergy.

I see your logic but im not convinced all four cant play, in part because frosty's speed and athleticism mean he might be able to play on smaller players

11 minutes ago, binman said:

An interesting analysis and if true rhe club would have a real dilemma.

I reckon pederson might be the unlucky one if indeed ir comes to pass they dont want to play all four. Reason being that synergy is critical to a backline playing the sort of zone defence we are using. Changing  dernders upsets that synergy.

I see your logic but im not convinced all four cant play, in part because frosty's speed and athleticism mean he might be able to play on smaller players

I know defenders are simply people but a bit harsh to call them that binman.

Frost is an athletic straight line runner.  While he's not the worst big man on a small, it's far from ideal.

As for Kennedy ?  They beat Geelong without him.  Geelong had Hawkins out, so that squared the ledger.  At least we've grown accustomed to not having Hogan.

As usual, the game will be won in the midfield.  Out-tackle them with the same pressure game as last week then we can win.

On the weekend against Geelong, West Coast had virtually identical CP and disposals and Geelong won the clearances and centre clearances, but importantly, West Coast had 93 tackles (19 more) and 16 more inside 50's (59 to 43).  Put the brakes on Dangerwood and you're a long way to winning.  They'll always get their clearances, but in general midfield play West Coast were on top.

Tellingly, Geelong had more handballs than kicks, which is a recipe for a loss, while West Coast had a far better balance.

So in essence, West Coast out-pressured Geelong, Geelong then overused it by hand, and West Coast were more direct with 16 more inside 50's.  The imbalance in inside 50's led to West Coast having 8 more scoring shots, which will usually be the difference.

If we drop off on the pressure stakes we lose.

4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Good on you, will remember not to query your opinion in the future you obviously can't handle it

Don't care personally who is picked as long as they have a crack

No worries - ask away about opinions - just there are different ways of doing so

Agree on whoever is in there having a crack - and that in doing so it leads to more cracking results

3 hours ago, PaulRB said:

3rd best and fairest 2016, All-Australian 2016. Brownlow Medal: 2016 votes 16; - See more at: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/player-profile/max-gawn#sthash.PU6TpIOy.dpuf

I can see 1:05 happening again this week.

Thinking a little more about the Eagles talls and remembered they have Johnathon Giles running around in the WAFL as well. 

Wouldnt be surprised if they slot him into the side to try and further combat Gawn.

Bit of a journeyman but definitely not a hack.

5 hours ago, WAClark said:

While I can see the knock on JKH given his previous AFL form, he has not played one AFL game on the back of really good VFL form.

I'd like to see what he brings to the table after 3 weeks of great form in the 2's.

yes to this and to his knockers, how many AFL players would have missed a career if they were coach and didn't have patience? some like Gysberts start on fire but don't make it, Others like Ben Reid, Chris Dawes, Michael Tuck, Dippa arent up to it early then become premiership players. JKH has the ability of a Caleb Daniels and just needs the right role and some confidence.

Where would Neville Jetta be if demonland coached the side. Long gone would be my guess. and Jetta was longer in the tooth before he became a regular.

JKH is knocking the door down and I hope he gets another look in.

7 hours ago, dino rover said:

Ive got - Achilles tendonitis

It is an overwork / overuse condition so I dont understand that "rest" is the opposite of what is required.

I have had it too, but I had it in the middle of a season a few years back and had to take three weeks off while doing benign exercises and told to put kms into the tendon to stress load and get it ready for the rest of the season. 3kms, then 5kms, then 8kms then game. 

Essentially, it was being overused (and other muscles underused) but it needed to get ready to take the load of a game. 

If you had a different recovery that is fine, but that was my advice and it worked for me.

22 hours ago, Cards13 said:

Another week and again confused about this idea of resting players in anticipation of next weeks game. 

We've just come off a "long" break and only played 2 games. Each week is about winning, not thinking about the week after. 

Best team plays at all times, unless you are "rebuilding", form,  have injuries or have better players coming back from injury. 

Agree 100%.  Recently rested due to the bloody bye.  

21 hours ago, deejammin' said:

Geez we've had bad luck with injury this year. I'd have Gawn, Hogan, Hibberd and Jones in our top 5 most valuable players and they've yet to play a single game together and still won't until at least round 16. It's frustrating but also remarkable that we are still in a great position.

Id  play Vince more in the midfield in Jones' absence, perhaps in a negating role on Mitchell or Priddis. Tmac goes back with Hunt, Salem, Lewis to cover Bernie's role.

Id be a little worried about being too tall down back. But Frost and TMac are such good athletes it might be an advantage.

In: Gawn

Out: Jones

 

It speaks for the versatility of our list this year, and of the coaching and match committee innovative thinking

And the McDs have brushed up their disposal and decision making in recent weeks (though still not perfect)

11 hours ago, Nasher said:

A few weeks ago I had OMac coming out for Gawn to address the structural issue, but his game against Collingwood and then following up against Bulldogs threw that idea in to flux.  The most junior of the three tall defenders is the one playing the best footy.  

I expect Salem to spend more time in the middle with Jones out.  I think, for one week at least, a back six of Hibberd, Hunt, Jetta and the three talls could work.  OMac is the only three of the talls who is of the lumbering variety - TMac and Frost are both runners.  Frost in particular is fast - not just for a tall, but fast full stop.  In the era of 'zone defence' I don't think the fact that he's tall matters per se.  

I agree that this setup has a lot of dodgy kicks in the back half - but realistically the alternatives are to import someone from Casey like Wagner - another dodgy kick - or an inferior midfielder like JKH or Stretch to enable Salem to continue playing back - also not ideal.  

It'll become evident pretty quick if it doesn't work.  I'd back Goodwin to make in game changes if it's not working (perhaps move Gawn forward, put TMac back in to the ruck), and adjust the side accordingly the following week.

We worry about how to fit Hogan in when the time comes.  There are too many variables that haven't happened yet - there are probably at least two weeks worth of form, injuries and structural effectiveness to be observed before we need to make that call.

I guess it will also come down to match ups and opposition structures, though we are starting to get into the quite unfamiliar position that it is they who will have to worry about us and not vice versa. 

10 hours ago, picket fence said:

A retrograde step if JKH and Trengove play IMV one is finished and the other is not up to it!

I have been a fan of both, but agree that playing both would be very risky, let alone one. 

Edited June 21, 20178 yr by monoccular

Not sure why its so complex.

• Goodwin rewarded the winning team who beat Collingwood with only a fit Salem coming in at Wagner's expense
• I reckon Goodwin will reward a winning team again
• Jones out, Gawn in
• Dees paying $2.90
• Let's crack in!

18 hours ago, bingers said:

Kennedy will play

No chance, he said online he won't be playing this week

13 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

No chance, he said online he won't be playing this week

Thank God. Free's up TMac to play a more loose roaming game which has been really effective. OMac and Frost to take on Petrie, Darling. I think Hibberd on McGovern would be a good matchup.

Edited June 21, 20178 yr by mongrel

18 minutes ago, mongrel said:

Thank God. Free's up TMac to play a more loose roaming game which has been really effective. OMac and Frost to take on Petrie, Darling. I think Hibberd on McGovern would be a good matchup.

McGovern might to good overhead for Hibberd. 

2 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

McGovern might to good overhead for Hibberd. 

He probably is but what Hibberd does really well is use his body and physicality to work is man under the ball or out of position to mark it. Either way I think they will rotate as they usually do.