WELCOME TO THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - STEVEN MAY

[beelzebub 23,383]

There's a number of things which I must confess im really impressed by at the moment with the MFC.

Despite the club rhetoric  ( aka public spin for fast-fooders ) there was to Freddy and all of his game-observant footy mates a glaring deficiency in our defence. Ill give Oscar his due, he did his role quite well...but there was another role which we had no one for. And there not being a fully conscripted defence opened us up. When we bled we haemorrhaged ..badly for 4-6 goals at a time.  Game killers

So three things in this instance:

Identifying, the role

Identifying a player

Getting said player

Three for three !!! 

[Watson11 2,244]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I assume you mean Blind Freddy...in any case it's not that obvious to some around here. We have a superstar backline. No need for May or Lever....

I’m one that doesn’t totally agree with you on defence but can understand your view.  To me our defence starts in the forward 50 and mids.  When we learnt to defend at the end of the season our defence was pretty good.  Lever going down was a blessing in disguise because it was obvious that if our forwards and mids didn’t get the balance right then we’d struggle to make finals.  But they worked it out just in time.  But that said, I’m much happier to have Lever back and May to take the best forward.  I think it clicked for the group at the end of the season.  And 6-6-6 favours Melbourne more than any team (Number 1 centre clearance team). Think we’ll be impossible to beat next year if we get our defending in the forward 50 and mids right.

[beelzebub 23,383]

22 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

A brief summary of the kind of character we're bringing into the club.

 

 

I know its stretching things....but some recurring themes....

First Australian  ( indigenous ) .. Oldest known peoples on earth

First Aussie FootyClub  Melb.....Aussie Rules.....Oldest documented football code in world

First recorded game....played by Melbourne Grammar....same school  May ends up at  !!

First Indigenous  AFL capt.

Bought his Mum a house.

Its been impressed upon me , especially in the last week that this club, our club, is a club defined ( now ) by behaviours. It will go to some length to frame  many of the ( recent ) actions by the MFC and how we intend to do business on, and off, the field.

More and more as I see the club re-emerge it occurs to me we are far from being cursed by Norm Smith , we are being guided by him. It's taken this long to get to the core of who and what we are again.

This lad, can't wait to put the jumper on and do it proud. I like this

go Dees

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by beelzebub

[Demon Disciple 12,274]

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

More and more as I see the club re-emerge it occurs to me we are far from being cursed by Norm Smith , we are being guided by him. It's taken this long to get to the core of who and what we are again.

No such thing as the Norm Smith curse. Those who believe in such folly are just looking for excuses.

[monoccular 17,578]

On 10/19/2018 at 10:21 AM, FarNorthernD said:

Often you look at old clips and it looks like old fashioned football. Sean Wight could slot easily into our current side. Goodwin would love him. 

Ahhhh .... Sean Wight.

Literally that clip brought a tear to the eye.  Life can hand out very cruel hits.  The work "tragic" is so often overstated in footy, but Sean's premature passing was so cruel.

Courageous on and off the field, and an amazing learner and athlete.

#27 would be well taken by May.  A lot to live up to.

[beelzebub 23,383]

20 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

No such thing as the Norm Smith curse. Those who believe in such folly are just looking for excuses.

Thanks for having absolutely no understanding of the notion described. Bless you.

Indeed there is NO curse in the sense of anything resembling 3 witches at Halloween or a Haitian Voodoo ceremony. The curse as it were is simply the result of our endeavours to date since the great man left the club.

But in effect we have been 'cursed' by abandoning the very thing that made us great. Those elements are now being re-instated. They are our new 'rule of club"

It is no accident that we are becoming more successful by being more like Norm...None what so ever. ( imho ) 

 

edit: need to further explain.

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by beelzebub

[Adam The God 30,431]

14 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Thanks for having absolutely no understanding of the notion described. Bless you.

You are difficult to interpret sometimes, mate. 

[Willmoy1947 4,146]

44 minutes ago, A F said:

You are difficult to interpret sometimes, mate. 

BB would have been Head Prefect at my school, but i would still hang it on him, if i knew he couldn't catch me...........

[jnrmac 20,189]

1 hour ago, Watson11 said:

I’m one that doesn’t totally agree with you on defence but can understand your view.  To me our defence starts in the forward 50 and mids.  When we learnt to defend at the end of the season our defence was pretty good.  Lever going down was a blessing in disguise because it was obvious that if our forwards and mids didn’t get the balance right then we’d struggle to make finals.  But they worked it out just in time.  But that said, I’m much happier to have Lever back and May to take the best forward.  I think it clicked for the group at the end of the season.  And 6-6-6 favours Melbourne more than any team (Number 1 centre clearance team). Think we’ll be impossible to beat next year if we get our defending in the forward 50 and mids right.

Fair enough. I would say that the footy dept doesn't entirely agree with you. The damning stat is that we are very poor in defending one on ones. This is not related to a lace out pass from a mid but a genuine 50/50 ball between fwd and defender. And we were 9th this year in defence as well as being around 14th for scores once the ball went inside our def 50.

The mids are very important but we still need to be able to stop teams scoring when the ball goes down there. Hence Lever and May. May is structurally important because it means Lever, Hibberd, Jetta  and OMac/Frost can play their roles while the oppo's key scorer is being held.

[Watson11 2,244]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Fair enough. I would say that the footy dept doesn't entirely agree with you. The damning stat is that we are very poor in defending one on ones. This is not related to a lace out pass from a mid but a genuine 50/50 ball between fwd and defender. And we were 9th this year in defence as well as being around 14th for scores once the ball went inside our def 50.

The mids are very important but we still need to be able to stop teams scoring when the ball goes down there. Hence Lever and May. May is structurally important because it means Lever, Hibberd, Jetta  and OMac/Frost can play their roles while the oppo's key scorer is being held.

The stats you quote are for the entire season and we improved out of sight. Post St Kilda to the prelim we improved every single defensive stat and were the AFLs number 1 defensive team.  Lowest points against, lowest points scored from turnovers (that came crashing down in the prelim), 4th lowest scores per oppo inside 50, 2nd best at forcing turnovers from oppo inside 50s (not sure of one on one stats but improved out of sight) etc etc.  It was a stunning turnaround, and mainly because of forward 50 and midfield pressure, although Frost was good.  Last 2 years when we keep oppo to less than 75 points we are 18 - 0.  Average against in the post St Kilda to semi final period was 69 points.  With Lever back and May in we will be beasts.... Best balanced team I can remember.  

[DeeSpencer 26,088]

2 hours ago, Watson11 said:

The stats you quote are for the entire season and we improved out of sight. Post St Kilda to the prelim we improved every single defensive stat and were the AFLs number 1 defensive team.  Lowest points against, lowest points scored from turnovers (that came crashing down in the prelim), 4th lowest scores per oppo inside 50, 2nd best at forcing turnovers from oppo inside 50s (not sure of one on one stats but improved out of sight) etc etc.  It was a stunning turnaround, and mainly because of forward 50 and midfield pressure, although Frost was good.  Last 2 years when we keep oppo to less than 75 points we are 18 - 0.  Average against in the post St Kilda to semi final period was 69 points.  With Lever back and May in we will be beasts.... Best balanced team I can remember.  

The biggest change in that time was playing Gawn a kick behind the play. Having one of the games tallest and strongest aerial players situated under the ball made a huge difference...Up until when the Eagles smashed us at the contest and kicked to the open wide flank and used 2 rucks to draw Gawn in to bad positions.

I don't think it was sustainable use of Gawn. We need him around the contest as the extra mid, as a link man around the ground an pushing forward to goal. The kick behind the play should only be an occasional tactic. 

[Deemania since 56 6,720]

12 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Of our current playing group, Frost is the one which most reminds me of Sean.  Brilliant athletisim, which he often uses to close in on an opponent and spoil the ball away with a late dive.

This amazes me at times; the number of DL posters who exercise free will to criticise Frost and his alleged '...lack of skills...' when all he might need is some split second to steady in delivery - and that is a coaching issue. That split second, by the way, will have an ever-reducing timeframe as he adjusts to its impact in games. Usually, Frost is up there, any opponent, ready to pounce and run, just like Sean. I can clearly remember Sean having delivery problems for a couple of seasons, as his kicking was erratic most of the time but, by hell, he won the ball and again, usually affected a clearance. Then some FD coach took him aside over a pre-season for some extra work on foot passing, longer passing, handball and eyes up option finding. Instant transformation it was, and Sean became another legend of the MFC for superb contributions across the field, for uncompromising reliability and toughness, and for heightened skills execution through an enormous confidence build in his game. Frosty needs 'some' of this coaching attention - I am convinced that this is all he needs. He could be a terrible weapon in our arsenal of elite players and is worth the effort. You know what? Rodney Grinter is the man to teach him how....

[Demon Disciple 12,274]

The only problem with all that Deemania, is that Sean was a foreigner as such, his developmental ceiling was huge due to not being exposed to the game. Frost on the other hand has.

I thought Frosty was fantastic for us in the back half of the year, with some inspiring runs and amazing athleticism. He offers our backline something it doesn't have.......Pace.

[jnrmac 20,189]

7 hours ago, Watson11 said:

The stats you quote are for the entire season and we improved out of sight. Post St Kilda to the prelim we improved every single defensive stat and were the AFLs number 1 defensive team.  Lowest points against, lowest points scored from turnovers (that came crashing down in the prelim), 4th lowest scores per oppo inside 50, 2nd best at forcing turnovers from oppo inside 50s (not sure of one on one stats but improved out of sight) etc etc.  It was a stunning turnaround, and mainly because of forward 50 and midfield pressure, although Frost was good.  Last 2 years when we keep oppo to less than 75 points we are 18 - 0.  Average against in the post St Kilda to semi final period was 69 points.  With Lever back and May in we will be beasts.... Best balanced team I can remember.  

@DeeSpencer is right with the use of Gawn. It's self evident the club thought our defence needed bolstering. You are welcome to your view. I don't buy it.

 

 

[rjay 25,102]

15 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Of our current playing group, Frost is the one which most reminds me of Sean.  Brilliant athletisim, which he often uses to close in on an opponent and spoil the ball away with a late dive.

 

2 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

This amazes me at times; the number of DL posters who exercise free will to criticise Frost and his alleged '...lack of skills...' when all he might need is some split second to steady in delivery - and that is a coaching issue. That split second, by the way, will have an ever-reducing timeframe as he adjusts to its impact in games. Usually, Frost is up there, any opponent, ready to pounce and run, just like Sean. I can clearly remember Sean having delivery problems for a couple of seasons, as his kicking was erratic most of the time but, by hell, he won the ball and again, usually affected a clearance. Then some FD coach took him aside over a pre-season for some extra work on foot passing, longer passing, handball and eyes up option finding. Instant transformation it was, and Sean became another legend of the MFC for superb contributions across the field, for uncompromising reliability and toughness, and for heightened skills execution through an enormous confidence build in his game. Frosty needs 'some' of this coaching attention - I am convinced that this is all he needs. He could be a terrible weapon in our arsenal of elite players and is worth the effort. You know what? Rodney Grinter is the man to teach him how....

Sorry, don't see the comparison apart from athleticism.

Frosty has been in the system a while now, his decision making & disposal is what it is & won't get much better. He proved valuable when brought into the team but really is a classic depth player.

The big area of difference is in the contest, White was hard to beat one on one where Frosty is hit or miss. Despite his physical strength he often gets out positioned in marking contests. He also dropped some fairly easy grabs that proved costly.

Edited October 21, 2018 by rjay

[Watson11 2,244]

7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

The biggest change in that time was playing Gawn a kick behind the play. Having one of the games tallest and strongest aerial players situated under the ball made a huge difference...Up until when the Eagles smashed us at the contest and kicked to the open wide flank and used 2 rucks to draw Gawn in to bad positions.

I don't think it was sustainable use of Gawn. We need him around the contest as the extra mid, as a link man around the ground an pushing forward to goal. The kick behind the play should only be an occasional tactic. 

Gawns positioning helped but imo wasn’t the most important change.  He couldn’t get back when we lost centre clearances.  And when we were better at forward 50 pressure and slowing transition out of our forward 50 it allowed Gawn time to get back and bolster up our defence.  Earlier in the season usain bolt wouldn’t have had time to get back.  It’s evident the club wanted to further boost our defence, but also just as evident that players in our forward 50 who don’t work hard defensively are dropped or shown the door.  

[CBDees 3,167]

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

The biggest change in that time was playing Gawn a kick behind the play. Having one of the games tallest and strongest aerial players situated under the ball made a huge difference...Up until when the Eagles smashed us at the contest and kicked to the open wide flank and used 2 rucks to draw Gawn in to bad positions.

I don't think it was sustainable use of Gawn. We need him around the contest as the extra mid, as a link man around the ground an pushing forward to goal. The kick behind the play should only be an occasional tactic. 

This is where the recruitment of Preuss may be a master stroke!

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,902]

On 10/19/2018 at 8:27 AM, stevethemanjordan said:

Our backline has gone from a shambles three to four years ago to now being a strength. We've added Hibberd, Lewis, Lever and now May. It's unbelievable. 

Not in my time once as a supporter have felt confident in our back six as an entire unit. And now I will be.

To my ears, it sounds as if many posters who have questioned the May trade haven't actually watched him play, or nearly enough of him. Let me elaborate.

In May, we're getting pretty much exactly what Frost offered us in terms of speed and offensive play from our back-half. However, unlike Frost, May is an exceptional one-on-one defender and intercept player, he has elite foot-skills for a key defender, he is super smart and composed with ball in hand and he plays with a similar intensity to Viney both at the ball and man.

He is similar to Rance in that he has the closing speed and awareness to leave his opponent and halve contests that otherwise would be pencilled in as a win for opposition sides. That trait is extremely special.

He is a leader and former captain. His aggression and presence are going to change the entire look and feel of our defence. During the year, I am certain that opposition key forwards would have been strolling into our backline, seeing Oscar and Frost as our key defenders and thinking they'd have a day-out. Franklin, Riewoldt, Kennedy, Hawkins. All of them would have licked their lips. May's addition in that sense is enormous. Opposition sides know that May is aggressive and plays to hurt, and that advantage is significant. Opposition forwards second guessing at contests is exactly what you want as a defender. I can't remember ever having that in our backline save maybe for Jetta on smaller forwards, but never key forwards. They've always had something laugh at.

Posters really do underestimate what he's going to provide and the onflow effect he'll have.

His arrival is as big as any imo.

Hey Man, I'll agree that May is a good addition to our side, but I think your looking through some pretty rosey coloured glasses of him in a few respects.  You make out like he is some kind of messiah and to borrow a well worn quote from Monty Python:

 "He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy"

Admittedly I didn't pay super close attention to May this season, but the impression I got was that he was somewhat ordanary on the whole and was somewhat playing on his reputation from seasons gone by.  I watched his game against us at the Gabba on replay again the other week and he really didn't do anything special that game (except for a 55m goal from the boundary).  Sure he took a few cheap marks as a loose man on the last line of defense, but didn't really impact in his main role as the No.1 key defender on the ground - Tommy Mac and Jesse ran a mock that game.

I can give May a bit of a break for that game in the sense that he was playing after coming back injured to an extent, but I'm not sure that our own supporters sometimes cut O Mac or Frost that kind of slack for their poorer games (everyone points to Oscar's last Qtr Vs Geelong, but with delivery to Hawkins that good, who really would have stopped him?).  I'm also happy to accept that the team environment and performance at the Suns has been some kind of influence on May.  I think a true leader may have shone above it, but also that all people are human.  I am encouraged that in his interview presently up on the MFC website May acknowledges that he became complacent and needs to lift his game (how refreshing that a player comming to the MFC knows they need to be at peak performance to fit in!).

I think you are stretching it though to suggest that May is as quick as Frost.  I have no doubts that May is a better all rounded footballer, but I will be mightily impressed if he has the pace and acceleration of Frost. 

I actually find the assumptions and notions that either of Oscar and Frost being relegated to obscurity pretty uninsightful.  Both these players had games in season 2018 that they would rather forget and both also had bloody rippers of games and streaks of form.  Oscar started well and somewhat tapped off and Frost was ordanary early and finished like a house on fire.  Going forward Oscar will get only stronger and capable of running out the whole season and unlike many, I'm not putting a ceiling on Frost or his capability to learn new tricks.  Reality is that even with May, I think we still need one other key back and having competition between Oscar and Frost can't be a bad thing. 

However the key position spots play out though, I think Lever, Hibbard, Salem, Jetta, Lewis and perhaps Lewis, J Smith and or possibly even Hunt will have a ball playing around them.  Like I think we all are, I'm certainly looking forward to seeing our quality back six hit the park together in 2019.  GO DEMONS!!

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,902]

@stevethemanjordan regards your opening line, let's face it - our whole team has gone from a shambles to strength in the last four years.

... and Fing god (actually Roosy, Viney, Taylor and Co) for that!!

[DV8 2,271]

On 10/18/2018 at 3:05 PM, hemingway said:

I love tough guys Ernest. We have had so few over the years

 

On 10/18/2018 at 3:05 PM, hemingway said:

I remember how good I felt when I saw Big Carl run out in Demon Colours for the first time.

We finally had a guy to scare the pants off the opposition.

Ray Biffen did also but he created mayhem in the goal square whereas Big Carl was like a marauding Hannibal coming down from the Alps.

We are developing a take no prisoners team.

Jetta, Viney, Harmes, AVB, Melksham, Frost, Brayshaw, Lever, Oliver, Spargo ? Weide ??? Maynard ?

There's more than a handful of players, who can also play a bit, who will not back-peddle, when its hot in the Kitchen. This is a great start with our new-look list.

It''s helpful when the list manager, and the coach are in agreement... on the types of players they want in our jumper...  and its showing on the field this year. 

 

A team full of goers is much better than a list full of skill, but no endeavour. Its easy to add skilled players to a hardened squad, but its near on impossible to add hardness to a list of Primo-donna's.

[DV8 2,271]

On 10/21/2018 at 6:50 PM, beelzebub said:

There's a number of things which I must confess im really impressed by at the moment with the MFC.

Despite the club rhetoric  ( aka public spin for fast-fooders ) there was to Freddy and all of his game-observant footy mates a glaring deficiency in our defence. Ill give Oscar his due, he did his role quite well...but there was another role which we had no one for. And there not being a fully conscripted defence opened us up. When we bled we haemorrhaged ..badly for 4-6 goals at a time.  Game killers

So three things in this instance:

Identifying, the role

Identifying a player

Getting said player

Three for three !!! 

I think we've been chatting to May, since Autumn, last year. ? with a view to this deal.

 

Watt I want to know next is, Whom have we been chatting with, thru this season.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,511]

On 10/19/2018 at 7:21 AM, FarNorthernD said:

Often you look at old clips and it looks like old fashioned football. Sean Wight could slot easily into our current side. Goodwin would love him. 

I used to get played at full back a lot when I was a kid and got a bit down on myself thinking it was ‘boring’ and negative.  Sean Wight 1994 changed all of that with his desperate tackles, smothers and spoils that would send the ball 50m up the ground.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I used to get played at full back a lot when I was a kid and got a bit down on myself thinking it was ‘boring’ and negative.  Sean Wight 1994 changed all of that with his desperate tackles, smothers and spoils that would send the ball 50m up the ground.

Hmnn, one of my Fav's... SW.

On 10/19/2018 at 10:21 AM, FarNorthernD said:

Often you look at old clips and it looks like old fashioned football. Sean Wight could slot easily into our current side.

Goodwin would love him. 

I think Sean would take the 3rd Tall spot in place of young smith.  And wouldn't Nev love playing alongside Sean Wight.

Edited October 22, 2018 by DV8

[John Demonic 5,859]

22 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

The only problem with all that Deemania, is that Sean was a foreigner as such, his developmental ceiling was huge due to not being exposed to the game. Frost on the other hand has.

I thought Frosty was fantastic for us in the back half of the year, with some inspiring runs and amazing athleticism. He offers our backline something it doesn't have.......Pace.

So what would he offer if we recruited pace from elsewhere? Because we've done that with the additon of May and KK, and with a DL'ers convo with member of MFC coaching staff, Jayden Hunt being very much in the frame next year. So Frost must now have more redeemable qualities than just pace. He becomes depth I think because his qualities as a KPD 1 on 1 defender are not up to a high enough standard.

Edited October 22, 2018 by John Demonic

[Ethan Tremblay 30,994]

May is to be unveiled today as a Demon in Federation Square.