58 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

Oscar might not be as dashing and agile as Frost but he has the better skills and is more composed with ball in hand. Much more composed. He may not be the finished article yet but Oscar played some very good footy this season, especially when Lever was up and about and he could play second fiddle back there.

Add May to the back six, get Lever back from injury and watch Oscar thrive with main glare of a key defensive spotlight off him. That’s the added blessing of having tough-ass gorilla-minder like May come into the side. Takes some of the heat off Lever and OMac.

Frost will be the one pushed to the back of the pecking order if May is brought in. Skill level is not at the level for a side with premiership aspirations. Couple of those fumbly turnovers and wonky 30m passes against an Eagles or Tigers and wooshka ... it’s game over.

i'd argue there's more chance than frost improving his footskills and composure than o-mac suddenly finding *hardness*

52 minutes ago, Rocky said:

i'd argue there's more chance than frost improving his footskills and composure than o-mac suddenly finding *hardness*

Almost no chance Frost’s skills improve by his age. What you see now is what you get. He’s NQR in my view. Handy back up only.

Re Oscar’s purported lack of mongrel, stick May back there with Nev, Hibbo, Lewis and Salem and you’ve got more than enough hard man slots covered.

Skill errors in the back six cost you big time and potentially mean the difference between premiership and runner-up. Can’t have it.

Think you’re going to find the FD see it the same way.

Edited October 5, 20186 yr by EnterTheDragon

8 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

Almost no chance Frost’s skills improve by his age. What you see now is what you get. He’s NQR in my view. Handy back up only.

Re Oscar’s purported lack of mongrel, stick May back there with Nev, Hibbo, Lewis and Salem and you’ve got more than hard man slots covered.

Skill errors in the back six cost you big time and potentially mean the difference between premiership and runner-up. Can’t have it.

Think you’re going to find the FD see it the same way.

i don't want to argue back and forth over this, suffice to say both players have deep underlying deficiencies. it's just that personally, i believe that frost's are more easily fixed via coaching and game-time. oscar is soffffft. even if he adds another 5-10kg, he will be soft. he is a great kick, if not a bit slow (decision-making wise), but super reliable and doesn't make brain-fades like his brother used to. HOWEVER, he is not competitive. one of the very few in our team with this trait now (an essential trait of a defender if you ask me!). frost is competitive. sam lacks super-reliable foot-skills and composure now, but i believe they would come, in the same way that oscar has developed his.

re: what the footy dept. will do.. you are probably right. i don't agree with it, but you are probably right. i understand o-mac doesn't need to be overly physical with so many of those types now in our backline. however, in pointing out how much turnovers coming out of our backline kill us, you are turning a blind eye to the one-on-one disasters that o-mac is consistently involved in. whether it be buddy or a lesser forward from a bottom club. the ball moves past him and oscar takes an eternity to JOG back after it. just no desperation. no balls-to-the-wall attitude that we get from hibberd, jetta, and frost. 

again, each to their own, this is merely my opinion.

When does he have to announce (or tell GC)? First that he wants out, and second his preferred new home.  I really don’t know if we want him, what it will cost.  Suspect he won’t get to be captain any time soon....

Disagree with you rocky. Oscar will end up being as good as or better than tmac.He is more composed and taller. He is probably a 2-3rd forward in reality and is being played out of position by neccessity. I would have played hogan at CHB but now it wouldnt surprise me if weeds ends up as the swingman

 

1 hour ago, buck_nekkid said:

When does he have to announce (or tell GC)? First that he wants out, and second his preferred new home.  I really don’t know if we want him, what it will cost.  Suspect he won’t get to be captain any time soon....

"Early next week" according to Craig Cameron, to give them time to get a fair trade together, but there's no official deadline. The longer he leaves it, the harder it is to get the job done, which hurts everyone involved, including himself. He would have to have reasons for sitting on it, the most easily explained one being that he needs the Hogan domino to fall first.

I think once Hogan says he is leaving?

2 hours ago, defuture15 said:

Disagree with you rocky. Oscar will end up being as good as or better than tmac.He is more composed and taller. He is probably a 2-3rd forward in reality and is being played out of position by neccessity. I would have played hogan at CHB but now it wouldnt surprise me if weeds ends up as the swingman

 

Wow

The media is pushing the line that "GCS will get a top 3 pick for May as an FA next year so a trade should be a top 5 pick".  GCS are making noises for a high pick but are they really committed to that? 

They know that if they push that line too hard they are admitting there will be no improvement at GCS next year.  ie No Hope!  That makes for a tough sell to the AFL, sponsors, members, draftees and potential trades.

When it gets down to the wire they might just accept a lower pick or a combo of picks and players as they must set up to improve in 2019 and a top 5 pick, 18 yo kid is not going to do that.  . 

Edited October 5, 20186 yr by Lucifer's Hero

5 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The media is pushing the line that "GCS will get a top 3 pick for May as an FA next year so a trade should be a top 5 pick".  GCS are making noises for a high pick but are they really committed to that? 

They know that if they push that line too hard they are admitting there will be no improvement at GCS next year.  ie No Hope!  That makes for a tough sell to the AFL, sponsors, members, draftees and potential trades.

When it gets down to the wire they might just accept a lower pick or a combo of picks and players as they must set up to improve in 2019 and a top 5 pick, 18 yo kid is not going to do that.  . 

Yep, and conveniently ignore that if they get a top 3 pick for him next year it will be from the AFL and not the club he goes to and also because they've stunk it up for another year.   They are conflating issues.  GCS do not want May at the club if he won't commit long term which he won't ergo they have to trade him for less than what they would get from the AFL next year.

Also not sure the top end quality of next year’s draft stacks up well against this one.

They already have picks 2 and 3 that will bring in top end talent.  Some might say the more talent the better!  But how many 18 yo kids can you bring in all at once when there is no established leadership and little culture. 

GCS will be desperate to set up for a more successful 2019.  So, as alluded to in my post above a top 5 pick for May won't necessarily be as critical as a more mature list and a better culture.

If he goes, they will trade him for the best deal they can get which in all probability won't be a top 5 pick. 

If we were to get 2 picks in the 6 -10 range from Freo I would think GCS will take one without too much fanfare.

Edited October 5, 20186 yr by Lucifer's Hero

With 2 & 3 already this year maybe Freo's 1st next year suits them.  It's likely to be in the vicinity of the compo pick they would get if they held on to May.  Then the question is: is it better to have him there or not in 2019?

GC really need to get value for him now and start to make progress but as you say @Lucifer's Hero how many 18 you do they need? In 2016 they had 4 picks in the top 10 Ainsworth, Scrimshaw, Brodie, Bowes - none have come on really strongly unfortunately and Scrimshaw is on his way out. However last year none in the top 10 because they traded 2 for Lachie Weller.

Maybe 3 in the top 5 of the "superdraft" is the best plan they've got?  Craig Cameron is a smart, experienced operator who was at Richmond for their rebuild.  He's no nonsense too so I think they are in good hands.  But what a challenge with both co-captains leaving in one year!  Hardest job in AFL.  Maybe it warrants it's own thread - what would you do if you were GC List Manager?

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The media is pushing the line that "GCS will get a top 3 pick for May as an FA next year so a trade should be a top 5 pick".  GCS are making noises for a high pick but are they really committed to that? 

They know that if they push that line too hard they are admitting there will be no improvement at GCS next year.  ie No Hope!  That makes for a tough sell to the AFL, sponsors, members, draftees and potential trades.

When it gets down to the wire they might just accept a lower pick or a combo of picks and players as they must set up to improve in 2019 and a top 5 pick, 18 yo kid is not going to do that.  . 

The silly thing about that is May will be 28. He’s not going to get offered a 5 year deal. He would maybe get a 4 year front loaded on pretty good coin which wouldn’t usually guarantee top compo but it is the AFL so they’d get that if it were a 1 year deal 

May is 26 yo

Just now, DubDee said:

May is 26 yo

He'll be 27 before start of next season and 28 the year after if we get him as a FA.

May is only 6 months older than Gaff 1/92 vs 6/92.

13 hours ago, defuture15 said:

Disagree with you rocky. Oscar will end up being as good as or better than tmac.He is more composed and taller. 

 

Agree. Well ahead of where his brother was at same age.

It never ceases to amaze me how short people's memories are. Tmac was likely trade bait if he didn't reinvent himself as one of the best forwards going around such was his horrible field kicking, poor decision making (eg taking on risky kicks) and damaging turnovers.

The above issues are my concern f ok r frost. As the dragon points turnover merchants in your back half will kill you against top sides. 

And omac soft? What a joke. Puts his body on the line every single time. And keeps going. I went to the wc game. It was hot. Despite being up against it omac gave 110% effort to the very last second. Gutsy and impressive. Watch his afl stats pro footage for proof of that.

38 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

May is only 6 months older than Gaff 1/92 vs 6/92.

But Gaff has more hair.

54 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

With 2 & 3 already this year maybe Freo's 1st next year suits them.  It's likely to be in the vicinity of the compo pick they would get if they held on to May.  Then the question is: is it better to have him there or not in 2019?

GC really need to get value for him now and start to make progress but as you say @Lucifer's Hero how many 18 you do they need? In 2016 they had 4 picks in the top 10 Ainsworth, Scrimshaw, Brodie, Bowes - none have come on really strongly unfortunately and Scrimshaw is on his way out. However last year none in the top 10 because they traded 2 for Lachie Weller.

Maybe 3 in the top 5 of the "superdraft" is the best plan they've got?  Craig Cameron is a smart, experienced operator who was at Richmond for their rebuild.  He's no nonsense too so I think they are in good hands.  But what a challenge with both co-captains leaving in one year!  Hardest job in AFL.  Maybe it warrants it's own thread - what would you do if you were GC List Manager?

GCS made another major blunder last year with a disastrous deal involving WCE:  WCE traded to GCS their 2017 pick 50 and their 2018 first pick ( #18).  They got back 2017 picks 21, 26, 37, and a GCS 2018 second pick (#20).

The net impact in 2018 for the Eageles is a two pick downgrade!!  With #21, #26, #37 in 2017 they picked Oscar Allen, Liam Ryan, and Jack Petrucelle.  WCE made out like absolute bandits.  GCS gambled they would go up the ladder and WCE would go down.  The opposite happened and were badly burnt. 

As you say with Cameron now on board they will much smarter at the trade table and the draft. 

58 minutes ago, SFebes said:

He'll be 27 before start of next season and 28 the year after if we get him as a FA.

And probably 29 the year after I’d imagine!

?

3 minutes ago, DubDee said:

And probably 29 the year after I’d imagine!

?

Demon faithful would have forced him into early retirement by then so it won't matter.

54 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

May is only 6 months older than Gaff 1/92 vs 6/92.

That looks more like the Aussie cricket team circa 1999 vs 2018.

43 minutes ago, SFebes said:

That looks more like the Aussie cricket team circa 1999 vs 2018.

Yeah, is this Tim May we are talking about? The off spinner?

Don't want him.

Couldn't turn a door handle that bloke...

Edited October 6, 20186 yr by rpfc
k nob is censored

13 hours ago, deebug said:

I think once Hogan says he is leaving?

I think he Neale trade is holding things up. 

So its Freo holding the Damn wall up.

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The media is pushing the line that "GCS will get a top 3 pick for May as an FA next year so a trade should be a top 5 pick".  GCS are making noises for a high pick but are they really committed to that? 

GCSuns don't have more time to waste. 

A clean-out and onto fresh challenges is the ONLY way forward, for them... they do Not want to stretch out the pain of the cleanup.

It makes the job bigger For Dewy.