I think his disposal has improved this year to some extent.

I haven't been a fan, but I would prefer him in the guts over Harmes.

What on earth is he doing on on a wing?

he's a walk up start best 22

anyone suggesting otherwise is being silly

12 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

he's a walk up start best 22

anyone suggesting otherwise is being silly

no he is not

His kicking continues to be a let down but his clean hands around the contest has been super valuable the last two weeks. 

I certainly agree he isn't a wingman. Wouldn't mind putting him across half forward as the high half forward, replacing ANB and then moving Hannan and Fritsch to the wing. Maybe just rotate those forwards and Tyson through the forward line more and try lots of different options.

Or we wait until Viney comes in and then move Jones/Harmes to the wing. Not that those guys are really wingmen either, both will be too see ball get ball to really make it on the wing but at least they can break the lines and keep up defensively.

Harmes had the most pressure points on the weekend. His defensive in tight speed was valuable. So I can't see Tyson suddenly getting put in that centre square role any time soon.

Wing really is the spot where we have the least depth. After Lewis and Tyson it's only Stretch as ready to go back up and he had a shocker against the Tigers.

1 hour ago, FarNorthernD said:

I don’t seem to be able to copy it across but in the game day thread Deestroy All said

”If your life depended on Dom Tyson hitting a target how would you kill yourself?"

 In a sea of silky left footers we traded for the exception to the rule. 

That’s a great quote. 

I wonder if anyone has suggest to him that he’s probably a right footer. 

Beyond this year Vince will be gone and Lewis the year after. Tyson will still be required even with a fully fit team unless someone not currently getting a game over takes him.

Current candidates are: Stretch, Maynard, Balic, and whatever other untried or yet to be drafted players we acquire, even in a best case I don’t think any of these are likely. 2 of these will probably have to be playing just to make up for the loss of Lewis and Vince any way

Just think if Tyson isn’t playing for us then our other so called NQR players are definitely playing ANB and Harmes. Who always seem to be the first people want out.

 

Edited April 30, 20187 yr by Garbo

8 minutes ago, Garbo said:

Beyond this year Vince will be gone and Lewis the year after. Tyson will still be required even with a fully fit team unless someone not currently getting a game over takes him.

Current candidates are: Stretch, Maynard, Balic, and whatever other untried or yet to be drafted players we acquire, even in a best case I don’t think any of these are likely. 2 of these will probably have to be playing just to make up for the loss of Lewis and Vince any way

Just think if Tyson isn’t playing for us then our other so called NQR players are definitely playing ANB and Harmes. Who always seem to be the first people want out.

exactly, hence why i say he's a walk-up start for best 22

I still back us in on the trade to bring him in - because he showed he was on the up when he first joined us and by previous exposure was good in many of the areas he is now critisised for. But something has happened since - he's lost penetration, accuracy and breakaway speed from the pack - whether through injuries I'm not sure. The one upside; he's still young - but I'm not so confident he'll suddenly start to improve again, although I agree we currently need his experience in the middle.

5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

His kicking continues to be a let down but his clean hands around the contest has been super valuable the last two weeks. 

I certainly agree he isn't a wingman. Wouldn't mind putting him across half forward as the high half forward, replacing ANB and then moving Hannan and Fritsch to the wing. Maybe just rotate those forwards and Tyson through the forward line more and try lots of different options.

Or we wait until Viney comes in and then move Jones/Harmes to the wing. Not that those guys are really wingmen either, both will be too see ball get ball to really make it on the wing but at least they can break the lines and keep up defensively.

Harmes had the most pressure points on the weekend. His defensive in tight speed was valuable. So I can't see Tyson suddenly getting put in that centre square role any time soon.

Wing really is the spot where we have the least depth. After Lewis and Tyson it's only Stretch as ready to go back up and he had a shocker against the Tigers.

Tyson to me is almost invisible in the field. You think who has played well, and he is almost never in your mind, then you look at the stats and you find he has 20-30 touches. I guess it is because he truly is an inside mid and does a lot of his work in close. 

However, I think his weaknesses are so severe that I don’t think he makes our best 22 when everyone is fit. The most obvious is his disposal, where the accuracy in his kicking in particular is weak. It is most obvious in set shots for goal where he misses more often than not. He and Max should have special training sessions practicing kicking for goal 30-40 meters out, then Max can teach him the banana from the pocket! 

9 hours ago, Dee1993 said:

I really dont get the Tyson hate. Our midfield looks more assured with him in the side and is different to our other midfielders. 

The game slows down for him and finds space where there is none. 

I reckon he is a poor (albeit very poor) mans scott pendulbury. 

Edited: also he went 73% and had 9 score involvements 

Thx mrs Tyson....

I think the only way he gets squeezed out from playing predominantly mid is if Angus takes the next step in being a consistent inside mid. I think Gus certainly took some steps toward on the weekend especially in the second half. I still think Tyson is best 22 when all fit, he wins his own ball and generally makes the right decisions under pressure, unlike some of out mids he has a bit more time and patience in the tackle to wait for the right handball, kicking still needs some work. 

But it is an interesting question. What hurts him is he doesn't play other positions either end of the ground. Gus, Trac, Jones, Salem, Harmes, ANB and Lewis are all more versitile (not better necessarily at this point) but it does put pressure on Dom to play at a high level as a mid moving forward. A good thing I guess.

4 hours ago, Skuit said:

I still back us in on the trade to bring him in - because he showed he was on the up when he first joined us and by previous exposure was good in many of the areas he is now critisised for. But something has happened since - he's lost penetration, accuracy and breakaway speed from the pack - whether through injuries I'm not sure. The one upside; he's still young - but I'm not so confident he'll suddenly start to improve again, although I agree we currently need his experience in the middle.

it's funny that we talk about tyson as if he's a grizzled 28 year old veteran with 200+ games under his belt...

he's 24, hasn't cracked the 100 mark, and is averaging over 22 possessions, 6 marks, and 2.5 tackles a game this year

he's still young and learning

Is quite possibly the most overrated player amongst many demonlanders.

Goodwin’s refusal to move him from a wing only highlights his weaknesses.

Maybe Goody is waking up to the fact that if you play individuals in positions they’re suited to, you’ll get the best out of them. Moving Brayshaw into the guts in the second half from a back flank was evidence. And Hogan spending more time forward is also.

Goodwin has been frustratingly stubborn this year with Tyson and ANB being two players who he continues to play in positions they shouldn’t be playing in. 

Both have been extremely underwhelming and have contributed very little this year yet Goodwin continues to play them.

We are so slow through the middle of the ground. Tyson is utterly useless on a wing.

Edited April 30, 20187 yr by stevethemanjordan

On 4/26/2017 at 11:03 AM, brendan said:

He had no pre season I expect his second half of the season to be better than it is now, he is still getting over 20 disposals a game so hasn't been that bad 

Footy success is more than 'getting disposals'; it is how you dispose of the footy itself - to a teammate by foot, a realistic shot at goal, effective handball to a teammate not under immense pressure as well, to an effective directional change to advantage, to a marking target rather than an ill-timed or wayward footpass. Moving forward by finding space is a two-way street, as well. One for the receiver to imagine and see a space for forward progression and the other controlled by the possessor of the football driving the ball to that/those teammates with accuracy, speed and limited compromise. These are the developments that are required in each midfielder and in any eventual improvement of the gameplan and its execution.

He gets the ball and looks like he has time to do something. His hand ball skills are poor and his kicking accuracy worse. He always thinks he has a half second to dispose and he doesnt. I remember Brian Wilson no being able to understand he lost his quickness. Its frustrating as an observer. Because he is able to collect and stand up very well, I would tell him to kick low to outside the contest so at least he doesnt get smothered. Id say his stats for getting smothered would be highest in the league.

1 minute ago, Franky_31 said:

He gets the ball and looks like he has time to do something. His hand ball skills are poor and his kicking accuracy worse. He always thinks he has a half second to dispose and he doesnt. I remember Brian Wilson no being able to understand he lost his quickness. Its frustrating as an observer. Because he is able to collect and stand up very well, I would tell him to kick low to outside the contest so at least he doesnt get smothered. Id say his stats for getting smothered would be highest in the league.

Good points.

27 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Is quite possibly the most overrated player amongst many demonlanders.

Goodwin’s refusal to move him from a wing only highlights his weaknesses.

Maybe Goody is waking up to the fact that if you play individuals in positions they’re suited to, you’ll get the best out of them. Moving Brayshaw into the guts in the second half from a back flank was evidence. And Hogan spending more time forward is also.

Goodwin has been frustratingly stubborn this year with Tyson and ANB being two players who he continues to play in positions they shouldn’t be playing in. 

Both have been extremely underwhelming and have contributed very little this year yet Goodwin continues to play them.

We are so slow through the middle of the ground. Tyson is utterly useless on a wing.

Moving Tom McDonald forward too.

He's a good (certainly not great) player but he doesn't play like a pick 3, which is where GWS took him in the draft.

Just now, Bring-Back-Powell said:

He's a good (certainly not great) player but he doesn't play like a pick 3, which is where GWS took him in the draft.

but he plays like an MFC pick 3

Sorry .... couldn't help myself

He is an inside mid. He can get the ball fine, in fact he is some what of a ball magnet. But unless he is in tight contests getting clearances, his disposal is too much of a liability.

For me he is better than Harmes as an inside mid because we know he can get heaps of clearances. I have no idea what Harmes can do as an inside mid, as I am yet to see him do much.

An inside mid of Brayshaw, Oliver, Viney and Tyson is pretty damn good, and allows our better ball users in Trac and Salem to play more outside roles where they can hit up forward targets. 

 

38 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

He's a good (certainly not great) player but he doesn't play like a pick 3, which is where GWS took him in the draft.

Which makes me wonder whether he used to have better disposal skills and, perhaps, speed, which GWS saw when they drafted him. If so, is it possible he has some form of chronic injury like the dreaded osteitis pubis (which, generally speaking, seems to have disappeared from the AFL)?

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Is quite possibly the most overrated player amongst many demonlanders.

Goodwin’s refusal to move him from a wing only highlights his weaknesses.

Maybe Goody is waking up to the fact that if you play individuals in positions they’re suited to, you’ll get the best out of them. Moving Brayshaw into the guts in the second half from a back flank was evidence. And Hogan spending more time forward is also.

Goodwin has been frustratingly stubborn this year with Tyson and ANB being two players who he continues to play in positions they shouldn’t be playing in. 

Both have been extremely underwhelming and have contributed very little this year yet Goodwin continues to play them.

We are so slow through the middle of the ground. Tyson is utterly useless on a wing.

Where exactly do you want those guys to play though? ANB's best position is the high half forward role, he comes up to stoppages as an extra midfielder and then uses his elite endurance to get out in space, I'm fine with him there, he's just way out of form. I'd give Tyson a run at half forward and some time on the ball to mix things up but really the wing might be the best spot to get him in the team and what better options do we have? 

I'd play Stretch more but he got 1 chance in a huge pressure game and wasn't up to it. After him who else do we have for the wing? Lewis in on the other wing and he's just as poorly suited to it as Tyson is. Oskar Baker almost certainly isn't ready. Fritsch should be one day but he doesn't have the endurance and will tire and make simple mistakes. Spargo maybe, but that's asking a lot of a young body and no good if the opposition have a pair of 6'3 wingmen. 

The preseason plan was for Jones and Harmes. They were the starting wings in a lot of training drills. Lewis was half back. Tyson rotated in. Viney's injury and Petracca's form/fitness has forced Jones back inside and Harmes wasn't really working and been needed forward/ruck and is another player better on ball than wing anyway. I don't like Tyson on a wing but I'll live with it until we have other mature midfielders to push him out.

Tyson did a full pre season before injury.  He should be up and about.  Expect more from him and time he needs to fire up and get the best out of himself.  The other is ANB, he has misfired in the first 6 games, patience running out with him.

11 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Moving Tom McDonald forward too.

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic?

Tom McDonald was a forward in his junior years.

 

10 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Where exactly do you want those guys to play though? ANB's best position is the high half forward role, he comes up to stoppages as an extra midfielder and then uses his elite endurance to get out in space, I'm fine with him there, he's just way out of form. I'd give Tyson a run at half forward and some time on the ball to mix things up but really the wing might be the best spot to get him in the team and what better options do we have? 

I'd play Stretch more but he got 1 chance in a huge pressure game and wasn't up to it. After him who else do we have for the wing? Lewis in on the other wing and he's just as poorly suited to it as Tyson is. Oskar Baker almost certainly isn't ready. Fritsch should be one day but he doesn't have the endurance and will tire and make simple mistakes. Spargo maybe, but that's asking a lot of a young body and no good if the opposition have a pair of 6'3 wingmen. 

The preseason plan was for Jones and Harmes. They were the starting wings in a lot of training drills. Lewis was half back. Tyson rotated in. Viney's injury and Petracca's form/fitness has forced Jones back inside and Harmes wasn't really working and been needed forward/ruck and is another player better on ball than wing anyway. I don't like Tyson on a wing but I'll live with it until we have other mature midfielders to push him out.

 

I don't want them played at all, stat.

Look at what we're doing well and look at what teams are doing too easily against us. 

We clearly have no issue entering our forward 50. We are super strong around the ball which is the hall-mark of our game and we're up in contested possession.

What we're not doing well at all is converting inside 50's into scoring opportunities and the number one contributing factor is our lack of quality ball users.

Goodwin is playing inside mids as wingmen and half-forwards. Dom Tyson, Nathan Jones and ANB should not be playing those positions, ever. I'm vehemently opposed to that philosophy.

Nathan Jones was almost our best on the weekend, why? Because he was playing his natural position. Angus Brayshaw was enormous in the second half, why? Because he moved from half-back to the guts. His natural position. Has Goodwin finally realised that due to our inefficiency going forward, it might be smart to play three tall forwards with a ruck rotation so we can compete better in the air? Look at how it worked on the weekend.

Posters may think that it's easy to say this in retrospect, but I've been complaining about it all year.

You simply can't carry so many of the same type of player who share the same weakness in the one team, especially when they're down on form.

We have no need for Dom Tyson or ANB right now given the way they're playing. Anytime that Essendon caught us on the fly on the weekend, Dom Tyson was nearly always caught out with his man running rings around him. If he is not damaging opposition himself, of what use to the team is he when it comes to defending? If ANB cannot pick the ball up cleanly or use the ball going forward, his pressuring acts mean very little.

There are a handful of positional changes I'd make to our side at the moment. One would be Harmes to take Tyson's position on the wing. He is quicker than Tyson, has more versatility to his game and uses the ball better. In the future, I'd want to target a hard running wingman to play that position.

At half-forward, I'd have a number of players ahead of ANB. For one, I'd bring Garlett back in and push Spargo up to a half-forward. In one game, he showed he has more ability than ANB has for the entirety of his career.

ANB and Tyson should be depth midfielders who play if any of our starting mids get injured. Right now, Brayshaw, Oliver and Nathan Jones should be starting in the guts with Gawn. With a rotation of Petracca, Salem, Harmes, Lewis and even Garlett to get him into the game.

 

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic?

Tom McDonald was a forward in his junior years.

 

No, I was implying that Goodwin was playing him out of position earlier in the game on a wing and down back.