14 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Couldn't be true, surely?

Its true.  Very well documented that Jones was told the day before it was announced.  He had the good grace to get on with it but he publicly expressed his disappointment and felt it was a 'demotion of sorts'.

It was a fait acompli for Jones.

4 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Does it matter whether it's the captaincy or not?

He's really, really out of form.

Whatever it is, it has to be fixed. 

Of course it matters if it's the captaincy because that means an unnecessary decision by a coach trying to stamp himself has caused Jack to suffer as a player. 

Simon Goodwin is accountable for any negative impact this has.

Just now, Abe said:

Of course it matters if it's the captaincy because that means an unnecessary decision by a coach trying to stamp himself has caused Jack to suffer as a player. 

Simon Goodwin is accountable for any negative impact this has.

He is to some degree, but what would the promotion really change?  He was already VC and doing lots of leadership on and off the field.  Why does changing it from VC to C make that big of a difference?

Every player will encounter a slump in form.  Viney is experiencing that right now, and it's how he gets himself out of it that counts.  I don't think the captaincy has much to do with it at all and, if anything, his injury over pre-season probably has more to do with it than anything else.

And go ahead and say it's the coach trying to 'stamp himself'.  Did you come up with that yourself, as you've used it ad nauseum for the last hour.

8 minutes ago, Abe said:

Of course it matters if it's the captaincy because that means an unnecessary decision by a coach trying to stamp himself has caused Jack to suffer as a player. 

Simon Goodwin is accountable for any negative impact this has.

That's all well and good but we can't unring the bell.

He's captain now.

Whether that's the reason for his form slump or not, he's in a form slump and he needs to get out of it. It's what happens from here that is important.

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

He is to some degree, but what would the promotion really change?  He was already VC and doing lots of leadership on and off the field.  Why does changing it from VC to C make that big of a difference?

Every player will encounter a slump in form.  Viney is experiencing that right now, and it's how he gets himself out of it that counts.  I don't think the captaincy has much to do with it at all and, if anything, his injury over pre-season probably has more to do with it than anything else.

And go ahead and say it's the coach trying to 'stamp himself'.  Did you come up with that yourself, as you've used it ad nauseum for the last hour.

To your last point wise, why did this decision need to be made? Would we have been any worse off with only Nathan jones as captain? 

It was a decision that didn't need to be made, so yes I think it was Simon Goodwin trying to signal the end of the Paul Roos era and the start of his own. 

The captaincy may well be having little or no bearing on his form, but as it sits we don't know and I am simply saying if it turns out that the captaincy has had an impact I think goody needs to wear that because the decision didn't need to be made when it was.

Just now, Abe said:

To your last point wise, why did this decision need to be made? Would we have been any worse off with only Nathan jones as captain? 

It was a decision that didn't need to be made, so yes I think it was Simon Goodwin trying to signal the end of the Paul Roos era and the start of his own. 

The captaincy may well be having little or no bearing on his form, but as it sits we don't know and I am simply saying if it turns out that the captaincy has had an impact I think goody needs to wear that because the decision didn't need to be made when it was.

You would need to ask Goodwin about that.  There was a reason it was done.  What that was is something that only the footy club knows.

And I don't think Goodwin has the sort of ego where he feels the need to signal the end of the Roos era to begin his own.  He was in charge of many things last year, so it's not like he needed to come in and make sweeping changes. 

We'll have to agree to disagree.  I just think Viney is out of form, nothing more than that.

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

You would need to ask Goodwin about that.  There was a reason it was done.  What that was is something that only the footy club knows.

And I don't think Goodwin has the sort of ego where he feels the need to signal the end of the Roos era to begin his own.  He was in charge of many things last year, so it's not like he needed to come in and make sweeping changes. 

We'll have to agree to disagree.  I just think Viney is out of form, nothing more than that.

The old saying wise " if it ain't broke, don't fix it" i to hope jack is just out of form but decisions like this always make me nervous.

I don't agree with Viney being made co-captain this early, and he is clearly out of form.

But I don't know enough to make the link between the two.

He played some great footy when playing a defensive role in the last couple of years. Maybe it is time to give him a rocket and stick him on Dusty/Cotchin next week.

He hasn't been in this bad form since 2015 if even then. 

I really expected him to step up in the 3rd Q and carry us. 

sonething must be up

I don't like giving someone the "they must be injured" excuse, it is a big cop out, but...

Jack Viney is a physical beast, and tackling, smashing and bursting through contests is his thing. Maybe he is just 10% off, but given he relies on that physicality so much, he just looks off the pace. As opposed to say a Watts, who even if he is off by 10% physically, still has the class to make his possessions count, and you wouldn't really even notice he is carrying something.

Could be rubbish, but I just haven't seen Jack Viney miss tackles and look so pedestrian since he was drafted.

48 minutes ago, Older demon said:

My concern is that he is having NO impact on the game. I don't think it is captaincy but limitations in his game right now, such as no right side or accuracy with his left foot and he was never quick. Others in the midfield have passed him by with Oliver being the extractor and when Trac moves into the midfield he will be squeezed out more. He needs to adapt and lift.

 

Then he is no Captain. 

Only the MFC would have a young Captain with such limitations. 

(The same club who drafted Toumpas rather than Wines....)

He's clearly injured, he looked like an old man running around at times today.

26 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

Could be rubbish, but I just haven't seen Jack Viney miss tackles and look so pedestrian since he was drafted.

Yeah it was demoralizing. To see him get brushed aside by Crozier and Weller in the 3rd quarter was demoralizing. He is just completely lacking intensity right now. He used to be a little ball of intensity that would smash into packs and rip opponents into the ground with hard tackles. They'd [censored] themselves when he was near! Today he tackled multiple blokes around the hips and was just thrown aside time and time again. It was the worst I have seen him look since he was drafted. He might not have had his worst game numbers wise, but he was seriously taking up space out there today. I hope the coaching staff can help him get back into form because we need him firing and leading!

56 minutes ago, Matt Demon said:

He's clearly injured, he looked like an old man running around at times today.

One can only hope he IS injured 

If he is then he needs to be rested to recover.  Don't take any macho "I can play through anything" rubbish.  The natch committee needs to make a stand  

 

Agreed he seems to have trouble making some tackles stick. Could be that his targets are developing a little more momentum (2-3 more steps) than last year.

That strong mark and Captain's goal late in Q4 for the lead was heartening. Co-Captain was on the bench at the time from memory.

3 hours ago, Buzzy said:

There's something not right, Freo were walking out of a couple of his tackles today, his power is gone.

He's got to be injured in some way.

That's what it looks like, he needs a week off to rest whatever the problem is because he's definitely got some injury 

3 hours ago, Forest Demon said:

....  Maybe it is time to give him a rocket and stick him on Dusty/Cotchin next week.

Cotchin maybe, but I shudder to think what Dusty would do to his confidence - tear it to shreds I'd expect. I just wish he'd work on moving to his right. He can't even handball to that side.

Jack was OK, 8 tackles shows effort hardly world ending like some of you are moaning about, get a grip.

Goes backwards knowing impact is coming and takes a leaders mark.

Nails the set shot with 3 mins left

I think the interrupted pre season and hip operation may have impacted his power somewhat. This is the problem when your game relies on it so much

20 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

Couldn't be true, surely?

Jones said he was told and surprised, not consulted first.

Making Viney co-captain didn't seem a good idea to me at all, especially when the title of vice-captain is available.  But I think we'll have to wait more than a few games to know if it has been a bad mistake.  And even then and if he continues in poor form, we may never know for sure if it was the burden of captaincy or some other reason.

19 hours ago, Forest Demon said:

I don't like giving someone the "they must be injured" excuse, it is a big cop out, but...

Jack Viney is a physical beast, and tackling, smashing and bursting through contests is his thing. Maybe he is just 10% off, but given he relies on that physicality so much, he just looks off the pace. As opposed to say a Watts, who even if he is off by 10% physically, still has the class to make his possessions count, and you wouldn't really even notice he is carrying something.

Could be rubbish, but I just haven't seen Jack Viney miss tackles and look so pedestrian since he was drafted.

As you say FD Jack is not blessed with great ability/ skill.

He is a a hard at it type who triesto make up for his lack of quality with endeavour.

However that can only take you so far.

IMO he is at his top now. JV is a good average player he will never be a Fyfe.

Valuable but never more than we see now.

2 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Goes backwards knowing impact is coming and takes a leaders mark.

Nails the set shot with 3 mins left

I think the interrupted pre season and hip operation may have impacted his power somewhat. This is the problem when your game relies on it so much

Agreed, this could be it, but you should have seen him running back onto the ground during the game at one stage yesterday. He had the strangest gait I've ever seen and looked injured to me, so perhaps he has sustained something else as well?

22 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

When you put a 21 year old as a captain and expect him to lead 44 blokes during the week and 22 on game day then of course he he is going to feel great expectation and pressure.

The thing is the players voted and he wasn't even the players choice. Goodwin came in and gave him the captaincy.

Said it at the time it was a very poor decision by the club. We should have learnt from past mistakes with Grimes and Trengove but obviously not. 

Still shaking my head at this..

Dazzle you and a hell of a lot of others are doing the same! Trengove and Grimes scapegoated for years of bad footy judgements! On what basis did Goodwin think 

1 Dual Captains was the way to go?

2 Pick a young Jack Viney who really hadn't done that much and for me was a solid C+ Player!??

Would have been better of giving it to Max,or even Jack Watts.

Poor decision that as you say continues to earn disrepute! I'll give you another spin on this Chunk Jones in my book quite rightly got his nose out of joint regarding this decision as well!

Iv'e said before Viney needs a huge game next week, if he dosent deliver and gives the same stuff I would drop him no question. What he needs to do is stop this brainless trying to beat tackle after tackle by head butting his way through traffic and take a leaf out of Clarry Choo Choo's book, dish it of to first option.

Yep he took a courageous mark and yes kicked a great goal but in the Maelstrom of his afternoons efforts a lot of poor decisons were made and he was not an effective leader or player and hasn't been for 4 weeks.

That's my take!

Said in the latest MFC article that he thought he had been solid and was playing his role.

Bit of a worry really. I wanted to put his poor form down to his hips and interrupted preseason, but maybe that's not the case

6 hours ago, Mickey said:

Said in the latest MFC article that he thought he had been solid and was playing his role.

Bit of a worry really. I wanted to put his poor form down to his hips and interrupted preseason, but maybe that's not the case

It's sometimes a bit hard to work out what the internal KPIs are when we're not privy to them. I can't imagine they'd be thrilled with his efforts thus far, but who knows what the benchmark is.