The Petracca v McCartin debate reprised

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

One thing that stands out for me aside from the sublime skills and brute strength this bloke has, is how unselfish he is. Quite often someone as silky skilled is likely to be pretty selfish at times.

Not Trac, he is always getting others involved in the game. Currently equal 2nd for goal assists in the league. Impressive!

[whatwhat say what 22,741]

apparently clubs are questioning his body shape for modern afl.

[Deestroy All 14,264]

7 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

apparently clubs are questioning his body shape for modern afl.

And what, want to clone him?

I bet Rory Sloane wishes he had that body shape playing along side him last Satdee. 

 

Edit: I assumed you were talking about Petracca, forgot there was the other bloke in the thread title. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Deestroy All

[Ethan Tremblay 30,856]

6 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

apparently clubs are questioning his body shape for modern afl.

McCartin's or Petracca's?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Ethan Tremblay

[whatwhat say what 22,741]

mccartin. no one questions trac's

i would've thought he had all the hallmarks of a power forward - if he's not making serious waves by year 5 it might be a concern, but massive units like mccartin take time.

i'm guessing certain clubs are 'talking him down' to try to reduce his trade value, which is patently ridiculous.

Edited May 16, 2017 by DemonAndrew

[Nasher 33,613]

35 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

mccartin. no one questions trac's

i would've thought he had all the hallmarks of a power forward - if he's not making serious waves by year 5 it might be a concern, but massive units like mccartin take time.

i'm guessing certain clubs are 'talking him down' to try to reduce his trade value, which is patently ridiculous.

Hah,  Phew.  I'd instantly consign anyone who questioned Petracca's body shape to the "never to be read again" bin.

[Josh 1,420]

The 2 things I love most about Petracca are when he bursts from a pack how he doesn't drop the ball into his foot he throws it down, puts everything into it.

 

And when he kicks a goal his whole face lights up, he smiles from the bottom of his soul it's awesome. Makes me smile

[Skuit 10,031]

He reminds me of Dane Swan on occasion. But the good parts. And I would be disappointed somehow if he didn't end up better. Reasonable bar I've set there.

[Demon_JB 1,385]

I think people underestimate how good he is 1 on 1. Reminds me a lot like Dusty where he is just so clean, powerful and strong at the contests. I would love to see Goody push our players up the ground and leave him deep at FF on occasion. Would back him to win it 80% of the time.

[Skuit 10,031]

He should teach Watts how to take a proper chest-mark. Although I'm not exactly sure the mechanics of how Trac manages them so cleanly in the contest himself.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,750]

On 2017-5-5 at 6:49 PM, ProDee said:

That's not quite correct.  Williams stats were better from his first 19 games.

That said, Williams debuted at 20, so had an advantage with age.

Williams averaged 26 disposals from 12 games in his first year - 1984, and averaged 30.6 in his second year on his way to the B&F in '85 at 21.

If your point is that Oliver's second year may be better than Williams' second year well that is a possibility, but obviously not yet resolved.

I'd also argue that stats in 1985 are worth at least 20% more than the possession game of 2017, so 30 disposals then is at least 35-36 today, imo.

I agree with your last line. Given Champion Data has a stat for everything, I'm surprised they haven't come up with a stat called something like "Percentage of team disposals". I would have thought that such a statistic would allow for better statistical comparison of players from different eras when team disposal numbers were so different. It would be interesting to see how Diesel then compared with players of today like Oliver but also with other on-ballers from different eras such as Ron Barassi, Kevin Bartlett and Dick Reynolds (if they had reliable disposal stats in those days).

[Deeoldfart 8,016]

5 hours ago, Josh said:

The 2 things I love most about Petracca are when he bursts from a pack how he doesn't drop the ball into his foot he throws it down, puts everything into it.

And when he kicks a goal his whole face lights up, he smiles from the bottom of his soul it's awesome. Makes me smile

He actually reminds me of @ProDee when he does that.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

We're St Kilda supporters jeering McCartin yesterday?

Edited May 21, 2017 by Clint Bizkit

[dazzledavey36 54,861]

Just looks too overweight to me.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,166]

21 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We're St Kilda supporters jeering McCartin yesterday?

That appeared to be the case. 

Great double page piece in the Herald Sun today on Trac. The paper version has a comparison table of Trac v Fyfe v Bont and one other I cant recall on their first 25 games. Very comparable granted neither of the other two missed a year with an ACL. Curious to see if he starts in the pivot today?

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,166]

Just now, dazzledavey36 said:

Just looks too overweight to me.

I reckon Paddy's next club will benefit. This all seems to be moving to him wanting to leave at the end of the year I reckon. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 minute ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

I reckon Paddy's next club will benefit. This all seems to be moving to him wanting to leave at the end of the year I reckon. 

If the Saints really thought that moving him on would be beneficial for both parties, then they should do it at the end of this year while he stock is still high enough to get something good in return.  Another year of what he is doing and you would suggest not too many teams would be knocking their door down to get him.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

I'm not a McCartin fan but I think this talk is too premature.  He's a third year tall.  I'm not sure Boyd or Patton were much ahead at the same stage.  Weideman is still miles away and wouldn't be getting a game at the Saints and there are lots of "promising" talls who are taking time.  Having said that, McCartin has looked anything but convincing.

It just shows what a freak Hogan is, to have had as much influence as he had in his initial seasons. 

Petracca is a sensational player.  We are so lucky Saints overlooked him.  I love his passion for the game and his teammates.

[The heart beats true 18,123]

I think everyone is going WAY too early on McCartin.

Given the difficulty of playing forward of the ball in the modern game, and the ability of defenders at AFL standard, it's not like key forwards can just walk into the game and have an awe inspiring impact straight away....

 

[beelzebub 23,347]

2 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I'm not a McCartin fan but I think this talk is too premature.  He's a third year tall.  I'm not sure Boyd or Patton were much ahead at the same stage.  Weideman is still miles away and wouldn't be getting a game at the Saints and there are lots of "promising" talls who are taking time.  Having said that, McCartin has looked anything but convincing.

It just shows what a freak Hogan is, to have had as much influence as he had in his initial seasons. 

Petracca is a sensational player.  We are so lucky Saints overlooked him.  I love his passion for the game and his teammates.

Tend to agree VP

All indicators do suggest Paddy veering dangerously closer to a bust than a keeper. Even in early days you often glimpse the potential. Even our Weed has shown a bit to suggest in a year or two he might well be that something.

Paddy looks a right plodder by comparison.

Truck has his covered ...in spades.

 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,166]

16 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

If the Saints really thought that moving him on would be beneficial for both parties, then they should do it at the end of this year while he stock is still high enough to get something good in return.  Another year of what he is doing and you would suggest not too many teams would be knocking their door down to get him.

Ignore my post I thought he was out of contract end of this year and forgot he had signed an extension til next. I think if he was out this year he may have looked for other pastures, cant see Saints not persevering. For his style of play and body type and the way the game is going he needs a massive engine and he doesn't seem to have the capacity to build one. Think he will end up a good player but it will take time and good is his cap. He certainly is no Trac.

Edited May 21, 2017 by big_red_fire_engine

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

Good article.  I liked this bit:

"He’ll be doing that in red and blue. Out of contract at the end of next season, he said re-signing was a formality.

“I absolutely love it here,” he said.

I don't just love it because Petracca loves it, but because it indicates a fantastic environment that all the players will love and will attract others.

Exciting times.

[Axis of Bob 11,788]

I think Petracca is going to be the better player, but I'd be reluctant to go too hard against McCartin. He could easily be an excellent player.

If you want a comparison, I think Josh Kennedy is the right one for Paddy, in terms of style. Straight line, hard leading, contested marking forward inside 50. His output was similar at the same stage of their careers. 

I'd rather Trac, though. We don't desperately need McCartin for structural reasons, and Trac is a special talent. 

[Adam The God 30,220]

The people down on McCartin shows what a stupid industry this is. How many times have we seen the same thing? A young KPP struggling in his first 5 or so years. 

It's driven by a media machine that is looking for a short term story and an ignorant football supporting audience that doesn't understand development in the modern game.

And before anyone mentions Jesse, he is a very special talent. That is not to say McCartin won't be, but as others have already done, I'd point to Weideman. He will take time.

Love that we have Trac though. Will be a superstar.

Edited May 21, 2017 by A F

[Gator 17,332]

12 minutes ago, A F said:

The people down on McCartin shows what a stupid industry this is. How many times have we seen the same thing? A young KPP struggling in his first 5 or so years. 

It's driven by a media machine that is looking for a short term story and an ignorant football supporting audience that doesn't understand development in the modern game.

And before anyone mentions Jesse, he is a very special talent. That is not to say McCartin won't be, but as others have already done, I'd point to Weideman. He will take time.

Love that we have Trac though. Will be a superstar.

I quite like McCartin, but I would be concerned by his body shape if I was a Saints supporter.  And if that is linked to his diabetes it's an issue.

Right now he looks fat and slow.