The Petracca v McCartin debate reprised

[Watts the matter 1,235]

57 minutes ago, Dante said:

McCartin dropped this week due to poor form, I'd be a little concerned if I was a Saints supporter. Poor form, medical condition and concussion issues, doesn't paint a positive picture. 

Bit like a reverse Wines/Toumpas.

 

No different to Brayshaw.

[faultydet 7,594]

On 02/04/2017 at 8:25 AM, Nasher said:

Unfortunately "lucked out" has become one of those expressions to have an antonymous double meaning.  I died a little on the inside recently when Merriam-Webster added a definition of 'literally' to mean the same as 'figuratively'.

They didn't?

Did they?

Another win for the imbeciles. Misuse a word for long enough, and it becomes a "real" word.

Or a made up saying like "dont give a rat's tossbag" ffs, it was always a nutsack.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

On 12/04/2017 at 11:23 AM, Tony Tea said:

Another Italian, SEN's Andy "Radar" Mario, also went to Marcellin.

I think Petracca went to Whitefriars although he wouldn't have been out of place at Marcellin. 

[pineapple dee 2,892]

On 12/04/2017 at 11:24 AM, Tony Tea said:

Jezza is not Italian. 

Ian Stewart would be in my top 5 Italians players.

And Stewart could rock a frock too. 

[Deemented Are Go! 3,676]

I haven't actually read this thread, but..

we win. 

 

The end.

[DubDee 24,382]

Have you seen the article 'st kilda dud no 1 draft pick dumped' and the footage of reporters following mccartin around asking why he was dropped?

Yeah neither have I

[Dante 2,704]

10 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

No different to Brayshaw.

Brayshaw wasn't a number one draft pick, he doesn't have Diabetes and he appears over the concussion issue, but apart from that, do difference.

 

[Adam The God 29,370]

33 minutes ago, Dante said:

Brayshaw wasn't a number one draft pick, he doesn't have Diabetes and he appears over the concussion issue, but apart from that, do difference.

 

There's certainly a similarity in form that cannot be denied, but personally, I think both will be very good players.

As you say though, the diabetes condition would worry me as a Saints fan. This comes from a bit of an ignorant place though. I'd just assume diabetes and elite sportsperson wouldn't mix, but I could be entirely wrong.

[Gator 17,259]

The following was posted by a Saints fan.  I can't vouch for the veracity, but I'd be concerned if I supported St Kilda.

"Read this article it has some interesting information... After reading this. If its true. I'm actually surprised we drafted a big pack marking forward with type 1 diabetes."

"Diabetics cannot withstand head impacts as well as those who are non-diabetic. This is because brain cells in diabetics have a very poor ability to use glucose and all diabetics tend to be deficient in magnesium. Magnesium is critical to ATP and energy production. In diabetes, since the brain has a poor ability to use energy, this makes the brain more sensitive to the effects of excitatory neurotransmitters like glutamate, which are released in massive amounts following a concussion."
 

[Forest Demon 4,681]

I wouldn't be getting too smug as a Dees fan, when our number 3 pick in that very same draft is in an eerily similar position to McCartin at the moment.

I hope for both's sake they can get past the concussion issues, and make it or not based purely on their footy ability.

[Adam The God 29,370]

38 minutes ago, ProDee said:

The following was posted by a Saints fan.  I can't vouch for the veracity, but I'd be concerned if I supported St Kilda.

"Read this article it has some interesting information... After reading this. If its true. I'm actually surprised we drafted a big pack marking forward with type 1 diabetes."

"Diabetics cannot withstand head impacts as well as those who are non-diabetic. This is because brain cells in diabetics have a very poor ability to use glucose and all diabetics tend to be deficient in magnesium. Magnesium is critical to ATP and energy production. In diabetes, since the brain has a poor ability to use energy, this makes the brain more sensitive to the effects of excitatory neurotransmitters like glutamate, which are released in massive amounts following a concussion."
 

Well, this potentially answers my assumption.

[old dee 23,492]

51 minutes ago, ProDee said:

The following was posted by a Saints fan.  I can't vouch for the veracity, but I'd be concerned if I supported St Kilda.

"Read this article it has some interesting information... After reading this. If its true. I'm actually surprised we drafted a big pack marking forward with type 1 diabetes."

"Diabetics cannot withstand head impacts as well as those who are non-diabetic. This is because brain cells in diabetics have a very poor ability to use glucose and all diabetics tend to be deficient in magnesium. Magnesium is critical to ATP and energy production. In diabetes, since the brain has a poor ability to use energy, this makes the brain more sensitive to the effects of excitatory neurotransmitters like glutamate, which are released in massive amounts following a concussion."
 

Thanks for that ProDee. Interesting.

[whatwhat say what 22,142]

That's very interesting the diabetics stuff.

Not a good outlook moving forward for McCartin

[Redleg 40,198]

We deserve some luck in a pick or two, like Saints taking Paddy, as we have made our share of mistakes.

Thankfully our current recruiter seems to know what he is doing. 

[rhaz 342]

Looking at the 2014 draft is interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_AFL_draft

From the top 10, Wright looks like he could develop into something special, and Darcy Moore also looks good but was never going to be available to us.

If you keep going down the draft, the only players that really stand out to me are Lever and Heeney (who also was never going to be available).

 

[buck_nekkid 5,818]

Type 1 diabetes relates to a failure of the pancreas to produce insulin, as opposed to type 2 diabetes which is more about the insulin resistance of cells.  You can forget that half-science bs above about Mcmuffin.  If he has type 1 diabetes, it is corrected with matching the insulin injected to the carbs consumed and burned, totally manageable in a performance athelete.

an AFL footballer with type 2 diabetes would be a major concern.  This would require a Plugger Lockett style diet and lack of exercise.

young forwards take longer to develop.  Judge this contest at the end of their career.  He is really a passenger until Roo retires, then he has big boots to fill.

happy with Trac, he served massive needs for us.

[Lucifers Hero 38,982]

9 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Type 1 diabetes relates to a failure of the pancreas to produce insulin, as opposed to type 2 diabetes which is more about the insulin resistance of cells.  You can forget that half-science bs above about Mcmuffin.  If he has type 1 diabetes, it is corrected with matching the insulin injected to the carbs consumed and burned, totally manageable in a performance athelete.

an AFL footballer with type 2 diabetes would be a major concern.  This would require a Plugger Lockett style diet and lack of exercise.

young forwards take longer to develop.  Judge this contest at the end of their career.  He is really a passenger until Roo retires, then he has big boots to fill.

happy with Trac, he served massive needs for us.

Thankfully he has Type 1 - http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-27/going-places-the-medical-diagnosis-that-almost-stopped-draft-prospect-paddy-mccartin-in-his-tracks

It doesn't sound like they were on top of it at the time of the draft and he has had a few setbacks.  Its probably a case of getting the medication/diet/exercise balance right.

A different disease but the circumstances are not dissimilar to the situation we have with Salem and his Thyroid.  Perseverance and patience but it must be tough on the player.

Paddy needs time and I really hope he makes it and based on your comments there is every reason to think he will. 

[Phadraig 760]

I had a quick look around for some studies, didn't find a whole lot on it besides one study which concluded:

"DM (Diabetes) is a significant predictor for mortality after moderate to severe TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury). Insulin deficiency is a likely contributor to increased mortality after TBI as IDDM (Insulin Dependant Diabetes) patients have higher mortality than NIDDM (Non-Independant Diabetes) patients who have higher mortality than no-DM patients."

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21610428

[Lord Travis 10,461]

Interestingly Roos said on Triple M this weekend that if he had to pick he would've taken Brayshaw at 1, Petracca at 2, and Mccartin at 3. Said Brayshaw has struggled with injury concerns and consistency but backed him to become a great player and the best pure on baller, while Petracca is more a forward/mid and impacts in bursts. Said once Brayshaw gets to spend more time on ball instead of being played in forward flanks and pockets that he will thrive.

[Demon Jack 6,738]

14 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Interestingly Roos said on Triple M this weekend that if he had to pick he would've taken Brayshaw at 1, Petracca at 2, and Mccartin at 3. Said Brayshaw has struggled with injury concerns and consistency but backed him to become a great player and the best pure on baller, while Petracca is more a forward/mid and impacts in bursts. Said once Brayshaw gets to spend more time on ball instead of being played in forward flanks and pockets that he will thrive.

This. Can't understand why we're wasting him in that dreaded defensive half-forward position. 

[Adam The God 29,370]

19 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Interestingly Roos said on Triple M this weekend that if he had to pick he would've taken Brayshaw at 1, Petracca at 2, and Mccartin at 3. Said Brayshaw has struggled with injury concerns and consistency but backed him to become a great player and the best pure on baller, while Petracca is more a forward/mid and impacts in bursts. Said once Brayshaw gets to spend more time on ball instead of being played in forward flanks and pockets that he will thrive.

If that's the case, and I don't disagree, why was Gus played on flanks and pockets under Roos? Was it a case of protecting him from the crash and bash of the midfield after his injury interrupted start to 2016? If not, Gus should have been playing more midfield minutes last year. I know he had more midfield minutes towards the end of 2016, but he was still playing the majority of his footy outside of the centre square. Goody has also opted to play him off a forward flank. I don't understand it. Get him in the guts if that's where we think he'll play his best footy. Otherwise, stick him on the back flank, like his first year.

[Lord Travis 10,461]

Just now, A F said:

Stick him on the back flank, like his first year.

I think this would be a good move actually. Our half backs have been shaky this year with two way running and defending properly. Brayshaw is a great tackler. The thing he did best in his first year was bursting off half back and using his great side step agility to dodge opponents and tear up the middle of the ground. I can still remember that beautiful run and long pass over the Pies press to a running Garlett like it was yesterday. He had a big impact running forward and creating like that. Put him back there and see what happens. He's obviously behind the current on-ball brigade in Oliver, Viney and Jones so why not freshen him up off the half back line and play to his strengths again.

[Adam The God 29,370]

10 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

I think this would be a good move actually. Our half backs have been shaky this year with two way running and defending properly. Brayshaw is a great tackler. The thing he did best in his first year was bursting off half back and using his great side step agility to dodge opponents and tear up the middle of the ground. I can still remember that beautiful run and long pass over the Pies press to a running Garlett like it was yesterday. He had a big impact running forward and creating like that. Put him back there and see what happens. He's obviously behind the current on-ball brigade in Oliver, Viney and Jones so why not freshen him up off the half back line and play to his strengths again.

My favourite one of those break aways was the intercept from the Selwood turn over down at Geelong. He burst through the middle and kicked it straight down Spencer's throat, who later goaled. One of the most exciting passages of play that year. Got a Gus and Jetta high five after that game too as one of the 12 Melbourne supporters at the ground.

I'm not actually sure how far behind Jones or Viney he is as a mid. Jones has been playing large portions at half back and racking up possessions there. Viney has been down on clearances. Depending on how he goes over the next few weeks, I'd get him back in and rotating between the middle and half back. Perhaps, even against Richmond.

[Lucifers Hero 38,982]

26 minutes ago, A F said:

If that's the case, and I don't disagree, why was Gus played on flanks and pockets under Roos? Was it a case of protecting him from the crash and bash of the midfield after his injury interrupted start to 2016? If not, Gus should have been playing more midfield minutes last year. I know he had more midfield minutes towards the end of 2016, but he was still playing the majority of his footy outside of the centre square. Goody has also opted to play him off a forward flank. I don't understand it. Get him in the guts if that's where we think he'll play his best footy. Otherwise, stick him on the back flank, like his first year.

Last year Roos let Goodwin take the reins from time to time.  I suspect Gus on the flanks in 2016 was one of those times. 

As time goes on we learn more and more from both Goodwin and Roos as to their respective influences in the last year of Roos' tenure.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Adam The God 29,370]

7 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

No contradiction there.  Last year Roos let Goodwin take the reins from time to time.  I suspect Gus on the flanks in 2016 was one of those times. 

As time goes on learn more and more from both Goodwin and Roos as to what their respective influences in the last year of Roos' tenure.

So you're suggesting, LH, that Roosy would be playing Brayshaw in the middle right now and would have played him there more, had it not been for Goody? Seems logical I suppose. What doesn't seem logical is why Goody would continue with this, despite Brayshaw clearly struggling, unless it goes back to that 'system' discussion again? Maybe Goody doesn't rate Brayshaw as highly as Viney, Petracca or Jones, who have all had more midfield minutes than Brayshaw.