Saints v Dees Rd 1

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,878]

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 4:40 PM, ProDee said:

He's been disappointing.  Has he kicked a goal in the 3 games ?  Might have kicked one.  I was looking on a Saints forum today and a few posters agreed he's not presently in their best team, but they know he'll be selected.  His physique still looks like that of a bush full-forward.

Plugger always had a physique like a bush full-forward and didn't seem to do him any harm.  Before we start talking about how the game has changed... I have no doubt that Plugger would be a walk up start in any AFL side.  A good footy brain and goal kicking strait as a die goes a long way.  Not saying that McCartin bloke is nessasrily any Tony Locket by the way.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[Gator 17,474]

44 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Plugger always had a physique like a bush full-forward and didn't seem to do him any harm.  Before we start talking about how the game has changed... I have no doubt that Plugger would be a walk up start in any AFL side.  A good footy brain and goal kicking strait as a die goes a long way.  Not saying that McCartin bloke is nessasrily any Tony Locket by the way.

Lockett was incredibly quick over the first 15 metres for a beast of a man.  I see no similarities whatsoever.

And obviously it's an entirely different game due to the onerous running required of all players, including key position players. 

McCartin's present physique won't allow him to get near his potential.  By the time he's 23-24 he'll look very different. 

[brendan 3,437]

Anyone see the recent pics of plugger yesterday he almost looks sick he is that skinny 

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

11 hours ago, ProDee said:

It was discussed on Demonland at the time and from memory it was an issue with the coach. 

Some old timers may shed more light, but I definitely remember that he was angry with the club. 

Bit of ancient history here.

Yep, Daniher made the call. I spoke to him about it at the SCG in round 5, 2003, following an horrendous final quarter capitulation during which we surrendered a 50 point (or so) three quarter time lead to the Swans. That loss set in place a truly horrible season in 2003 following a belter season in 2002 in which we were unbelievably unlucky not to beat the Crows at the G and get into a preliminary final (Powell was knocked out with his first touch of the ball in the first quarter).

I specifically questioned Daniher why we (essentially) let Powell go. I think the MFC offered him a one/two year contract on less money, and the Saints offered him a three year deal on more money.  He was angry and he left for the Saints after the trade period - we lost a top player and gained no compensation for it. Daniher stated equivocally that he had no regrets - Powell had no more than one good season in him. He got this one wrong.

Our list management was bent way out of shape back then. We had to pay sheep stations to keep Yze and Travis Johnstone because they had great seasons in 2002 (both in the mix in the Brownlow) and, as a result, we lost Woewodin and Powell, both of whom were important players for us and both of whom I would've liked to have seen finish their careers in the red and the blue. A disappointing period, which was then surpassed by even more disappointing periods after 2006.

"List management, list management, list management" - Peter Jackson, 2016.

 

[jnrmac 20,188]

14 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

Fair enough

I'll be honest I haven't been that impressed with Oscar after some wraps in the offseason. Long year and he's still bloody young so we'll see how he goes.

But you're right it is a bit of Russian roulette. Hopefully the Mac boys learn to give the easy safe kicks to Hibbo, Vince, Melksham etc more often then not

Our defence is now our weakest link.

[Adam The God 30,420]

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 0:34 AM, DemonAndrew said:

no, not a grade, but i think it runs deep, and most importantly runs quickly and all day, and delivers the ball well.

their slingshot ability is also red-hot.

Disagree. Their midfield is their weakness IMO. If their senior players in the midfield don't fire and Riewoldt struggles, they fall apart.

If we can somehow limit turn overs we should win. The reason I think we'll lose is we break down quite easily when a side really pressures us intensely.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,967]

Montagna generally plays pretty well against us, at least he won't be playing. 

[whatwhat say what 22,948]

5 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Montagna generally plays pretty well against us, at least he won't be playing. 

Confirmed?

[Ethan Tremblay 30,967]

9 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

Confirmed?

Confirmed. 

[loges 6,767]

11 hours ago, DemonLad5 said:

Still have no clue how people still think Pedo will play with zero match practice under his belt

There is no chance he will play

And you gave to wonder why he wasn't given any

[Roger Mellie 4,103]

2 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Bit of ancient history here.

Yep, Daniher made the call. I spoke to him about it at the SCG in round 5, 2003, following an horrendous final quarter capitulation during which we surrendered a 50 point (or so) three quarter time lead to the Swans. That loss set in place a truly horrible season in 2003 following a belter season in 2002 in which we were unbelievably unlucky not to beat the Crows at the G and get into a preliminary final (Powell was knocked out with his first touch of the ball in the first quarter).

I specifically questioned Daniher why we (essentially) let Powell go. I think the MFC offered him a one/two year contract on less money, and the Saints offered him a three year deal on more money.  He was angry and he left for the Saints after the trade period - we lost a top player and gained no compensation for it. Daniher stated equivocally that he had no regrets - Powell had no more than one good season in him. He got this one wrong.

Our list management was bent way out of shape back then. We had to pay sheep stations to keep Yze and Travis Johnstone because they had great seasons in 2002 (both in the mix in the Brownlow) and, as a result, we lost Woewodin and Powell, both of whom were important players for us and both of whom I would've liked to have seen finish their careers in the red and the blue. A disappointing period, which was then surpassed by even more disappointing periods after 2006.

"List management, list management, list management" - Peter Jackson, 2016.

 

Yep - Powell was getting slower and slower by the minute.

Daniher asked Powell to train while his contract was being negotiated. Powell told him to get effed in front of the whole playing group. From that moment, there was no chance he would stay a Dee.

[Demon Jack 6,930]

If Weideman is in rehab, then it all but guarantees that Spencer will play round 1. Like many, I think that Pederson is the better option but I doubt he's in the mix for Goodwin.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

5 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Our defence is now our weakest link.

Fair call

But there are still a few other glaring weaknesses (all related to each other)

Ball movement 

Experience 

Lack of kpp depth 

I think it's a little harsh to pick solely on the defenders who do rely a lot on up the ground for assistance.

I do acknowledge your point though 

 

[Adam The God 30,420]

8 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Our defence is now our weakest link.

Our fowardline is our biggest weakness IMO. Our defence is put under pressure if our forwards don't put on enough pressure.

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

2 hours ago, A F said:

Our fowardline is our biggest weakness IMO. Our defence is put under pressure if our forwards don't put on enough pressure.

Our line in the sand is our biggest weakness. We have enough talent to smash the saints all over the ground. I hope the players realise that talent is the least that is required.

Edited March 15, 2017 by america de cali

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

7 hours ago, Demon Jack said:

If Weideman is in rehab, then it all but guarantees that Spencer will play round 1. Like many, I think that Pederson is the better option but I doubt he's in the mix for Goodwin.

Goodwin is telegraphing early on his delistings at end of season.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

8 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

Yep - Powell was getting slower and slower by the minute.

Daniher asked Powell to train while his contract was being negotiated. Powell told him to get effed in front of the whole playing group. From that moment, there was no chance he would stay a Dee.

I recall Daniher wasn't that complimentary about Powell (which perhaps explains his stance) but he made the wrong call.

Powell finished in the top 3 at the Saints in 2003, yet we were bloody hopeless and really needed him.

 

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

IMO as it currently stands the Saints are currently ahead of us and whilst I expect it to be close I think they will grab the chocolates. I hope I am wrong but that is how I see it, there is not a huge void between us and I believe we will overtake them in the next 18 months. My current read on both sides and the Etihad factor will have me tipping the Saints, but more than happy to drop this one

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

Hell Yeah (Two Hoodos for the Price of One)

 

Damn. I thought it said two hookers for the price of one...

 

Can I change my vote?

[Gator 17,474]

56 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

IMO as it currently stands the Saints are currently ahead of us and whilst I expect it to be close I think they will grab the chocolates. I hope I am wrong but that is how I see it, there is not a huge void between us and I believe we will overtake them in the next 18 months. My current read on both sides and the Etihad factor will have me tipping the Saints, but more than happy to drop this one

I don't disagree, although I do genuinely think we have more raw talent.  They just seem to have more maturity and cohesion. 

That said, it's definitely a winnable game if we're on song.

[Gator 17,474]

It appears that Tyson, Watts, Smith, Jetta, Garlett, Kent, Hibberd are all still in play for round one and likely to lineup for Casey on Sunday. 

Round one's team is still wide open.  Some may be considered underdone, or deemed ready to play. 

[Radar Detector 1,347]

37 minutes ago, ProDee said:

It appears that Tyson, Watts, Smith, Jetta, Garlett, Kent, Hibberd are all still in play for round one and likely to lineup for Casey on Sunday. 

Round one's team is still wide open.  Some may be considered underdone, or deemed ready to play. 

It's a shame that most of the players that are ruled out of round 1 or borderline offer the two things (pace and/or footskills) that a game against the Saints at Etihad really requires.

Would be feeling much more confident about round 1 if all the above plus Frost (and maybe even Pedo) had strong pre seasons under their belts and we're ready to go.

Totally agree that we have more raw talent than the Saints btw. It will be a thing of beauty when this team starts to play consistently to the level it is capable of.

[Redleg 41,451]

13 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Our defence is now our weakest link.

Agree. 

If the Saints mids get on top, or we have another turnover fest, I fear what Nick, Membrey, Bruce, Paddy and their small goal kicking mates could do to us.

I posted the below on the Best 22 thread.

Posted Monday at 10:01 AM · Report post

The area of the ground I am most concerned with us, is the key backs. I know Frost is to return but I think we lack real talent in that area.

Tom Mc is our best there but he has poor disposal issues, Oscar is not there yet and Frost can break lines but can be erratic.

Clearly if our mids get on top in games,  that will help the backs, but to me we look suspect there.

A Weitering type would be my priority next draft/trade period.  

[Redleg 41,451]

58 minutes ago, ProDee said:

It appears that Tyson, Watts, Smith, Jetta, Garlett, Kent, Hibberd are all still in play for round one and likely to lineup for Casey on Sunday. 

Round one's team is still wide open.  Some may be considered underdone, or deemed ready to play. 

You are naming 7 possibles for the side, who have all had less than full pre seasons, either in training or games. We also have a number of other players unavailable.

Once again we seem unable to go into a season with a healthy, fit and practiced list.

We play a side who have beaten us 14 times in a row, at the ground we are playing at, a ground we struggle to produce our best at.

The Saints seem pretty settled ATM, with the only big name I can think of who will miss, being Joey.

If we win this game, it will not only be a possible 8 point one, but will also be a great win for us.

 

[Gator 17,474]

45 minutes ago, Redleg said:

You are naming 7 possibles for the side, who have all had less than full pre seasons, either in training or games. We also have a number of other players unavailable.

Once again we seem unable to go into a season with a healthy, fit and practiced list.

We play a side who have beaten us 14 times in a row, at the ground we are playing at, a ground we struggle to produce our best at.

The Saints seem pretty settled ATM, with the only big name I can think of who will miss, being Joey.

If we win this game, it will not only be a possible 8 point one, but will also be a great win for us.

 

Our guesswork concerns their readiness to play round one.   Only club insiders know.   We suspect it's not an ideal preparation, but we don't know how much is good enough.   Well I don't. 

I favour the Saints, but I also recognise that the previous Melbourne teams they've beaten were absolute garbage.