44 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

KB & Waldron?

it is a disgrace Waldron is given a Media Job in this city after what he did to the Storm. 

It was the end of the news sports headlines. I need to stop listening to this junk ...it is just so annoying that so many media 'personalities' seem to think the game is just about them and their theories.....

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Seemingly, I'm one of the few disappointed that a player entering his ninth year, off the back of one good year where he placed top 5 in the B&F, was left out of a squad of 29 due to unsatisfactory training efforts efforts.

Granted, it's a small story and I doubt it will impact his year, but it reinforces an immaturity that helps explain why he's produced very little in the first 7 years of his career and has never threatened to get near the leadership group.

Or maybe it was just that Spencer was given a game

He did well & took his chance

Every player is competing for a spot in the best 22. Again, another non-story with zero substance. 

Edited February 21, 20178 yr by Ethan Tremblay

3 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Seemingly, I'm one of the few disappointed that a player entering his ninth year, off the back of one good year where he placed top 5 in the B&F, was left out of a squad of 29 due to unsatisfactory training efforts efforts.

Granted, it's a small story and I doubt it will impact his year, but it reinforces an immaturity that helps explain why he's produced very little in the first 7 years of his career and has never threatened to get near the leadership group.

I'm not. If... and I reinforce the word if here... if the story has legs then good. We should have done these things 20 years ago. Good clubs do. They say here is the line, cross it and someone else gets your spot... don't care who you are, what money you are on, or what draft pick you were.

If a senior player gets a bullet in the leg the little ones listen. If not they say 'well he does it too, and gets away with it'

All players at every club need to know it's a privilege and not a right to wear the jumper.

So assuming the story has legs I'm OK with it. 

11 minutes ago, Melbournepotter said:

It was the end of the news sports headlines. I need to stop listening to this junk ...it is just so annoying that so many media 'personalities' seem to think the game is just about them and their theories.....

Even worse. 3aw making up news stories to help promote their own programs

why should i be suprised

16 minutes ago, Melbournepotter said:

It was the end of the news sports headlines. I need to stop listening to this junk ...it is just so annoying that so many media 'personalities' seem to think the game is just about them and their theories.....

The original interview was with Garry Lyon, Tim W and Hamish. KB just replayed it on his show. SEN audio has the interview 

Imagine the media melt down when Jesse Hogan is rested this week.  Players are managed to the minute these days, I'm sure Jack will get his minutes over the next 2 weeks to be cherry ripe for round 1

28 minutes ago, Demonland said:

But The Age Headline is: "Max Gawn insists Melbourne Demons teammate Jack Watts doesn't have attitude problem" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/max-gawn-insists-melbourne-demons-teammate-jack-watts-doesnt-have-attitude-problem-20170221-guhi2q.html

I wonder if the HS people actually listened to the interview. 

Max said Goodwin wanted to try playing 2 rucks (him and Spencer) and test other forwards who had trained well, specifically Van d and Weideman.   No room for another tall last week.  He also said Watts' attitude wast the best he had seen in 7 years.

He was then asked if he (Gawn) would be playing forward more this year.  He said it depends if the ruck combination is Gawn/Watts in which case he will ruck most of the time.  But if the rucks are Gawn/Spencer he will play forward more often. 

People can believe whatever but the JLT games are about experimenting with structures/players/positions so I see nothing sinister in Watts not playing. 

If he was left out for other reasons then so be it; a coach's prerogative.  

As a footnote: The most interesting things from the interview was that Max may cut his beard off later in the season and that Goodwin is considering a Gawn/Watts ruck combo.  To me they are far more interesting headlines that click bait 'journo's' taking stuff out of context.

29 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Seemingly, I'm one of the few disappointed that a player entering his ninth year, off the back of one good year where he placed top 5 in the B&F, was left out of a squad of 29 due to unsatisfactory training efforts efforts.

Granted, it's a small story and I doubt it will impact his year, but it reinforces an immaturity that helps explain why he's produced very little in the first 7 years of his career and has never threatened to get near the leadership group.

I can't speak for others PD but i share your disappointment. Not good enough (again, if true and Gawn's comments - and in particular what he didn't say - suggest the rumour has some basis i fact).

I am hoping however that it does in fact impact his season. Positively. You have pointed out a number of time how well goody is regarded is by the players as a man manager (and also that the players love him) and he appears to be very measured and smart. It is reasonable to assume not selecting Watts was a well thought out strategy and as someone has pointed out perhaps also an opportunity for a new coach to lay done a marker as a warning to all players that there will be no favorites and everyone will need to earn their spot.

 I am confident the strategy will bear fruit and Wattsy will double down his efforts. It will be fascinating to see if he is selected this weekend.

Edited February 21, 20178 yr by binman

8 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

But The Age Headline is: "Max Gawn insists Melbourne Demons teammate Jack Watts doesn't have attitude problem" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/max-gawn-insists-melbourne-demons-teammate-jack-watts-doesnt-have-attitude-problem-20170221-guhi2q.html

I wonder if the HS people actually listened to the interview. 

Max said Goodwin wanted to try playing 2 rucks (him and Spencer) and test other forwards who had trained well, specifically Van d and Weideman.   No room for another tall last week.  He also said Watts' attitude wast the best he had seen in 7 years.

He was then asked if he (Gawn) would be playing forward more this year.  He said it depends if the ruck combination is Gawn/Watts in which case he will ruck most of the time.  But if the rucks are Gawn/Spencer he will play forward more often. 

People can believe whatever but the JLT games are about experimenting with structures/players/positions so I see nothing sinister in Watts not playing. 

If he was left out for other reasons then so be it; a coach's prerogative.  

As a footnote: The most interesting things from the interview was that Max may cut his beard off later in the season and that Goodwin is considering a Gawn/Watts ruck combo.  To me they are far more interesting headlines that click bait 'journo's' taking stuff out of context.

This ^ ^

Confirmation bias is only valid when the info is confirmed as being true.

I'm not saying Watts hasn't come back underdone, I have no idea. Track watchers seem to indicate it's bs. But unlike some, I'm not going to jump to biased conclusions based upon rumours in the press.

Edited February 21, 20178 yr by Moonshadow

6 minutes ago, Theo said:

The original interview was with Garry Lyon, Tim W and Hamish. KB just replayed it on his show. SEN audio has the interview 

Yeah, I heard the original interview on that show. They started off with the Watts non-issue (after asking max about his beard). Max played a great straight bat to all their questions and in my opinion just confirmed what most of us assumed...that he was rested to see how the two rucks and Weideman would work.  Max said that a few players had been training well and deserved a chance. He dIdnt single Watts out, just answered a question by saying there's great depth and competition for places. That's what is irritating that despite all that, the original Watts non-issue was persevered with despite getting no encouragement from Max.

Goodwin should have explained his selections prior to the start of the game simple!

Why leave people wondering? Just amateur handling of information in my view

.Its called being on the front foot guys.

4 minutes ago, binman said:

I can't speak for others PD but i share your disappointment. Not good enough (again, if true and Gawn's comments - and in particular what he didn't say - suggest the rumour has some basis i fact).

I am hoping however that it does in fact impact his season. Positively. You have pointed out a number of time how well goody is regarded is by the players as a man manager (and also that the players love him) and he appears to be very measured and smart. It is reasonable to assume not selecting Watts was a well thought out strategy and as someone has pointed out perhaps also an opportunity for a new coach to lay done a marker as a warning to all players that there will be no favorites and everyone will need to earn their spot.

 I am confident the strategy will bear fruit and Wattsy will double down his efforts. It will be fascinating to see if he is selected this weekend.

If we're basing opinions on what people don't say I think we've gone past rumour into unsubstantiated, idle speculation. Might as well just say it's a hunch based on nothing.

8 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

But The Age Headline is: "Max Gawn insists Melbourne Demons teammate Jack Watts doesn't have attitude problem" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/max-gawn-insists-melbourne-demons-teammate-jack-watts-doesnt-have-attitude-problem-20170221-guhi2q.html

I wonder if the HS people actually listened to the interview. 

Max said Goodwin wanted to try playing 2 rucks (him and Spencer) and test other forwards who had trained well, specifically Van d and Weideman.   No room for another tall last week.  He also said Watts' attitude wast the best he had seen in 7 years.

He was then asked if he (Gawn) would be playing forward more this year.  He said it depends if the ruck combination is Gawn/Watts in which case he will ruck most of the time.  But if the rucks are Gawn/Spencer he will play forward more often. 

People can believe whatever but the JLT games are about experimenting with structures/players/positions so I see nothing sinister in Watts not playing. 

If he was left out for other reasons then so be it; a coach's prerogative.  

As a footnote: The most interesting things from the interview was that Max may cut his beard off later in the season and that Goodwin is considering a Gawn/Watts ruck combo.  To me they are far more interesting headlines that click bait 'journo's' taking stuff out of context.

Don't do it Max. Look what happened to Sampson. His beard should be protected as a national park.

Just now, chook fowler said:

Don't do it Max. Look what happened to Sampson. His beard should be protected as a national park.

or at least a sacred site, chook

1 minute ago, jackaub said:

Goodwin should have explained his selections prior to the start of the game simple!

Why leave people wondering? Just amateur handling of information in my view

.Its called being on the front foot guys.

So he should explain why each player has been left out ? Perhaps he didn't say anything because there is nothing to say. He just thought he would try different combinations in the game. That would be a given I would have thought, seeing as Ita a practice game with virtually nothing riding on the result (apart from supporter confidence etc)

4 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Don't do it Max. Look what happened to Sampson. His beard should be protected as a national park.

There'd be plenty of fauna and flora contained within!

18 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Maybe 3AW got that from Demonland ... wouldn't be the first time.

Or did the commentator name a source/evidence?

I thought the same thing when I heard it, trolling on Demonland!!!

Max played a straight bat but it's pretty clear to me Goodwin is lighting a fire under Watts for a pedestrian preseason given the talent and strides he made last year. 

Watts had a great year, but he's still an unusual player because he's 196cm tall but doesn't use that height all that often as a tall structural player and his defensive pressure is really poor for a guy of his mobility. At his best he's great, when he's off he doesn't add much to the team. 

Our rebuild is a bit like Richmond's who got a bunch of stars but they failed to build the depth and versatility in how they played and were found out in finals. Watts reminds me of someone like Shane Edwards who was very good for a few years but never fired in a final and fell away this year. We need to make sure Watts isn't the same kind of player (even if he's 6 inches taller).

The challenge to Watts:
- If you want Spencer's 2nd ruck spot - make sure you are super fit and can run around the ground when in the ruck because we can't give you 3rd up help.
- If you want Weid's 2nd key forward spot - make sure you are strong in the air and forcing contests
- If you want Vanders' mid sized spot - then run super hard to present an option and most importantly chase and tackle with intent.

The Tom McDonald comments of afl.com.au make it clear that this is not a figment of ProDee's imagination, nor the original poster of the story.  I think the Max Gawn interview did as well but accept it was somewhat open to interpretation whereas TMac is unequivocal and all that's left to ponder is whether a) Watts presented poorly for the intraclub; b) he broke or failed to adhere to team rules in the intraclub (presumably in terms of pressure acts / defensive actions).   It is clearly not about how he presented for preseason training.

Having said that, this is a storm in a tea cup and simply represents an early line in the sand from Goodwin around expectations and the fact that there will be no exceptions, nor any tolerance of non conformance.  Only way to run a footy club that's seriously focused on a journey for mine.  Watts will learn and others that have a propensity to end up in the same space eg Jeffy will sit up and take notice.  All good.  Move on.

Interesting the interview with Tom McDonald on the club website. You can tell both he and Max worded their answers carefully in their respective interviews but there's clearly been an issue, minor or major, with Watts over the the summer.

just not firing 

Pretty poor how the club has handled it sending both Gawn and TMac to do interviews. 

I feel like their comments were really convoluted and really told nothing about what was going on. 

The club simply needed to make a statement saying what is what, but these strange interviews from these two members of our leadership group have just added fuel to the fire and now I'm more confused than ever!

11 minutes ago, Copuchas said:

The Tom McDonald comments of afl.com.au make it clear that this is not a figment of ProDee's imagination, nor the original poster of the story.  I think the Max Gawn interview did as well but accept it was somewhat open to interpretation whereas TMac is unequivocal and all that's left to ponder is whether a) Watts presented poorly for the intraclub; b) he broke or failed to adhere to team rules in the intraclub (presumably in terms of pressure acts / defensive actions).   It is clearly not about how he presented for preseason training.

Having said that, this is a storm in a tea cup and simply represents an early line in the sand from Goodwin around expectations and the fact that there will be no exceptions, nor any tolerance of non conformance.  Only way to run a footy club that's seriously focused on a journey for mine.  Watts will learn and others that have a propensity to end up in the same space eg Jeffy will sit up and take notice.  All good.  Move on.

i've read it too and it didn't "make it clear" to me. one must remember journos selectively pick their quotes and can present them to mean other than intended. they revel in just wording it in a way that leaves room for conjecture as that is what sells. either way i agree it's more of a storm in a teacup

1 minute ago, Neitz the Great said:

Pretty poor how the club has handled it sending both Gawn and TMac to do interviews. 

I feel like their comments were really convoluted and really told nothing about what was going on. 

The club simply needed to make a statement saying what is what, but these strange interviews from these two members of our leadership group have just added fuel to the fire and now I'm more confused than ever!

tend to agree

sometimes the simple truth is all thats required...or a version of it..   Smoke and mirrors....a bit yesterday