Post Season Discussion 2016

[CP5 166]

If one puts the entire season in context and not one game in isolation we're well placed. 

GWS in 2015: 11 wins/99%

Dees in 2016: 10 wins/97%

GWS had 2 x 80+ point losses and we had one over 10 goals, albeit a bad one.

There are obviously no guarantees that we'll emulate GWS, but I do see similarities. 

[Sir Why You Little 36,638]

Most of the kids improved Whilst our leaders went backwards. 

 

Who is going to lead these kids?

Absolutely crucial Trade and Draft Period

[Watts the matter 1,235]

57 minutes ago, Chris said:

Salem also played 7 of those while under the cloud of an undiagnosed condition that turned out to be one that saps you of energy, and he was serviceable without being great in those games. I won't say he had a great year but I certainly wouldn't be anywhere near as harsh as you are on him. 

 

You have information regarding this? Or are you just guessing? 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

45 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Most of the kids improved Whilst our leaders went backwards. 

 

Who is going to lead these kids?

Absolutely crucial Trade and Draft Period

I don't know how our leaders went backwards when we won 3 more games than last year.  If anything they haven't progressed like we hoped, and I would agree with that, but gone backwards?  No.

[Satyriconhome 10,339]

46 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

You have information regarding this? Or are you just guessing? 

The information on his illness is well known, it is a thyroid problem, last attack (which hopefully they have now fixed) cost him 5kg in weight, fact coz I spoke to him face to face, good enough?

[Sir Why You Little 36,638]

10 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I don't know how our leaders went backwards when we won 3 more games than last year.  If anything they haven't progressed like we hoped, and I would agree with that, but gone backwards?  No.

Leaders playing for Casey mean they have gone backwards

We need all our experience to be available otherwise these kids will plateu

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Leaders playing for Casey mean they have gone backwards

We need all our experience to be available otherwise these kids will plateu

 

Only one leader, Colin Garland, played for Casey this year.  Not sure where you got leaders from.

I wouldn't argue the point that our leaders, to an extent, have not made much progress this year.  We still have losses that are inexcusable, but on the flip side we've had some sensational wins that our leaders have played a big part in.  It works both ways.

[Sir Why You Little 36,638]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

Only one leader, Colin Garland, played for Casey this year.  Not sure where you got leaders from.

I wouldn't argue the point that our leaders, to an extent, have not made much progress this year.  We still have losses that are inexcusable, but on the flip side we've had some sensational wins that our leaders have played a big part in.  It works both ways.

To sporadic Wise

Trade Period is crucial

[Chris 2,892]

1 hour ago, Watts the matter said:

You have information regarding this? Or are you just guessing? 

The club have been open with the fact his thyroid was playing up and probably had been for a while before he was diagnosed. They knew something was wrong but didn't know what for a while. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

To sporadic Wise

Trade Period is crucial

Sporadic doesn't mean 'gone backwards'.  

Trade period is always crucial.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

58 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

The information on his illness is well known, it is a thyroid problem, last attack (which hopefully they have now fixed) cost him 5kg in weight, fact coz I spoke to him face to face, good enough?

I'm aware of this, my question was related to what evidence there was he was suffering from this early in the season. 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

39 minutes ago, Chris said:

The club have been open with the fact his thyroid was playing up and probably had been for a while before he was diagnosed. They knew something was wrong but didn't know what for a while. 

Not how I remember it being reported, I know many on Demonland decided this was the reason behind his poor form but I don't recall the club ever providing information along this line. Happy to be proven wrong if it did occur. 

[Satyriconhome 10,339]

3 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

I'm aware of this, my question was related to what evidence there was he was suffering from this early in the season. 

Because I spoke to him as well, this has been an ongoing issue since he was drafted, he thinks/hopes/etc that they have finally fixed it

[titan_uranus 24,625]

The last fortnight is a reminder that there is a significant amount of improvement still to be made at the club.

The season in total, though, shows that we have made significant improvement regardless.

When you look at the things we were able to do this year that we have consistently failed to do in the last 10 years (win 3 consecutive games, go through a year never losing 3 games in a row, win in Adelaide, win in Darwin, win in Queensland, beat Hawthorn, get within 50 points of West Coast in Perth, win more games interstate than we lose) you can see that this side is much more capable than any side we've had since 2006.

Next year is about taking the platform we have built and adding a key rung to it - winning when we are expected to, and should, win. Whilst every club has upset losses, we can't afford five of them (Essendon, Carlton, Port, and two to St Kilda). We need to deal with the pressure of expectation. 

3 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

3) While some might point at the GCS match as a 'close win', we need to learn to close out games where pressure is tight and the stakes high. I view the GCS game (in light of Bernie's clanger) as one where we basically stumbled over the line. Jack's clutch goal was great but what if Tommy Lynch had connected with that kick? 

Nope, you don't get to write off wins because they don't suit your argument.

GC might not be a good side but that was a close game and we won it. I'd like to see us do it more than once a year, but we won it.

As for the "what if Lynch had kicked it?" comment, what if Stretch had kicked his goal against North? A pointless exercise.

[Jaded No More 67,658]

Finishing 11th with a percentage under 100 is what really hurts in the end.

We absolutely let the season down with these last two weeks. 

[titan_uranus 24,625]

3 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Finishing 11th with a percentage under 100 is what really hurts in the end.

We absolutely let the season down with these last two weeks. 

We were always going to finish 11th with a loss yesterday.

Our percentage falling below 100% disappoints me greatly, though. 

[jumbo returns 6,703]

2 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I think we are nearly there to be honest if you look at the bond among the group. They are bloody tight. He is the last domino to fall.

I reckon the question that will be asked if he does leave is do we revert to type and fall in a heap after the 'savior' leaves (ala Tom Scully)? Or do we adapt to our new reality like Hawthorn/Geelong post Buddy/Ablett and move onto bigger and better things? 

I really want the big fella to sign and this is where (albeit not a fave of many) Dawes will be important on field to allow JH to do well...Dawes will come cheap, too....

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

The last fortnight is a reminder that there is a significant amount of improvement still to be made at the club.

The season in total, though, shows that we have made significant improvement regardless.

When you look at the things we were able to do this year that we have consistently failed to do in the last 10 years (win 3 consecutive games, go through a year never losing 3 games in a row, win in Adelaide, win in Darwin, win in Queensland, beat Hawthorn, get within 50 points of West Coast in Perth, win more games interstate than we lose) you can see that this side is much more capable than any side we've had since 2006.

Next year is about taking the platform we have built and adding a key rung to it - winning when we are expected to, and should, win. Whilst every club has upset losses, we can't afford five of them (Essendon, Carlton, Port, and two to St Kilda). We need to deal with the pressure of expectation. 

Nope, you don't get to write off wins because they don't suit your argument.

GC might not be a good side but that was a close game and we won it. I'd like to see us do it more than once a year, but we won it.

As for the "what if Lynch had kicked it?" comment, what if Stretch had kicked his goal against North? A pointless exercise.

Let's look at it this way then. Hawthorn first time around versus the second time around. First time around we didn't show the poise required to eke out that victory. Second time around when challenged we did find something extra and that can't be dismissed or discounted. We need more of those performances and we need to replicate them across the season.

I don't take an absolutist view on things. I don't dismiss sloppy wins outright nor do I consider losses irretrievable disasters. Sure, I'm happy we won against the Suns but to say we won because of our class, poise and maturity would be us lying to ourselves.

I should also point out that the one win that we did managed to squeak out in tough circumstances was against a bottom four team. When we start doing that against the top 8 more often than not then we will know that we are on the way to righting a lot of our deficiencies.

[Sir Why You Little 36,638]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Sporadic doesn't mean 'gone backwards'.  

Trade period is always crucial.

Sporadic means players pick and choose when to switch on

That is a lack of leadership...

[CP5 166]

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Sporadic means players pick and choose when to switch on

That is a lack of leadership...

We definitely lack leaders.

It's a legacy of having consistently the youngest and least experienced team in the competition. 

[CBDees 3,165]

38 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

We were always going to finish 11th with a loss yesterday.

Our percentage falling below 100% disappoints me greatly, though. 

We could even finish twelfth if Collingwood beat Hawthorn (they have led at every change to date)!

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Sporadic means players pick and choose when to switch on

That is a lack of leadership...

I think with leadership it is very much a case of 'work with what you have got.'

I think while Chunk is a great role model and the model of persistence, he may not be a natural leader. There are very few Nick Riewoldt's, Luke Hodge's or Cameron Ling's out there. It's impossible to ask Nate to live up to that example as well as being, if you want to look at it in the cold light of day, unfair. It's not his fault that the rocket surgeons running the club from 2009 on wards decide to sack every senior player the club had (and handle their sackings so badly that many of them have refused to come back).

The obvious successor is Jack Viney. He is the one they send out after disgraceful losses like the one yesterday and it's clear that he expects better as a man. That attitude is great but if we put him in as captain now then I wouldn't be surprised if he went through a Jack Grimes like decline. Jack has some areas to work on in his own game as it is.

We are on an interesting next leg of our journey. Roosy has tried his hardest to start the process of making the club about the players as a group and not about an individual (be it a coach, executive or high priced recruit). It will be interesting to see if the next generation such as Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver and Viney carry out that mantra.

 

[Satyriconhome 10,339]

16 minutes ago, CP5 said:

We definitely lack leaders.

It's a legacy of having consistently the youngest and least experienced team in the competition. 

I am afraid to say that most people wouldn't know what a great leader was even if they bit them on the arse

[Deevolution 103]

Although it looks like our boys clocked off for the year after the Port game I think our season has gone as most would of expected it to, Step improvement from most of the list, some great wins, some poor losses & a tired finish, The addition of Hibberd & another pre season into the rest of the boys I can finally reach for the sunglasses because the light at the end of the tunnel will be blinding.

[DSP 1,488]

We improved, so its a success.

That being said, the loses to the Blues, Saints, Dons etc have to stop. Those games alone would have us comfortably in the finals right now.

We had some great highs, a couple of very close games and some really disappointing ones.

I think with a healthy Gus Brayshaw and Christian Salem, along with a season under Clarry and Tracca - we will be a better side next year. Bringing in Hibbo and the Milkman from the back end will also help a lot. Hogan will have to look back and be disappointed in his year. So many terrible kicks for goal. But again, another year under his belt and he should be all the better for it.

Big max was amazing and Viney took another step. Midfield should be pretty solid for next year.

Looking forward to seeing what Goody can do in 2017. Go Dees!