MATCH PREVIEW AND TEAM SELECTION - Round 23

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

25 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Clayton Oliver playing this VFL game now means he is officially eligible for VFL finals.

A smart decision by the football club and one Oliver would agree wholeheartedly.

Yeh don't mind that. Has had a big year and a taste of finals along with a bit of success (hopefully) would be nice reward

[mrtwister 652]

All of these 'outs' are eligible for the VFL semi-final because they aren't playing Round 23. If they played this weekend they wouldn't be allowed to play next weekend. Other teams are leaving 'not quite rights' out this week so they can play more VFL games in an effort to get them match ready for finals (see Stringer). As we are not in finals, our team selections are for the benefit of our fringe players that can make a huge difference to our VFL prospects.

Disappointed that Oliver isn't playing, he's our cleanest player, but what can you do?

[PaulRB 6,361]

I think with Oliver there is a clear sub-text to his being dropped aside from the VFL eligibility aspect, and it's "work your ass off over the break, and hit the start of preseason at AFL level fitness."

[old dee 23,787]

12 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Saddened Dawes wasn't selected.

Oh excellent Mr Shadow

[poita 3,902]

Big of the selectors to admit they completely stuffed up selection last week by dropping Michie and Neal-Bullen. Pity they didn't make the right decision in the first place, yet again.

I have no idea why Weideman is still in the side, as he was decidedly poor last week. I don't expect him to be taking ten marks and kicking five goals, but I do expect him to be getting to contests and making an effort defensively, and there was very little of that. Pedersen is a much better option, and probably will be for much of 2017 as well if we are aiming to play finals.

[picket fence 17,137]

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Clayton Oliver playing this VFL game now means he is officially eligible for VFL finals.

A smart decision by the football club and one Oliver would agree wholeheartedly.

Would he?? Surely playing Senior Footy would trump that!

Particularly if the team wins!!

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

Would he?? Surely playing Senior Footy would trump that!

Particularly if the team wins!!

Well he can either play 1 more senior game or he can play possibly 4 or so more VFL games including a grand final.

Seems clear which would be better for his long term development.

 

[nutbean 8,838]

52 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Would he?? Surely playing Senior Footy would trump that!

Particularly if the team wins!!

surely not...

As much as we want to win against the cats tomorrow in any man's language it is a dead rubber - we are playing for pride.

However Casey is not playing for pride - Casey is playing for silverware.

Edited August 26, 2016 by nutbean

[picket fence 17,137]

I can well imagine Afl players looking back on their footy Careers rejoicing in a Casey Finals campaign! Yep TOPS!

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

I can well imagine Afl players looking back on their footy Careers rejoicing in a Casey Finals campaign! Yep TOPS!

I can imagine former AFL players who were never developed properly looking back on their short careers wishing they had had more patient and well planned development like Oliver is currently experiencing.

 

[picket fence 17,137]

NAME SOME!

[JV7 2,351]

9 minutes ago, picket fence said:

I can well imagine Afl players looking back on their footy Careers rejoicing in a Casey Finals campaign! Yep TOPS!

Just look at the players Geelong had in their 2002 VFL Premiership side... Seemed to work well for them. Ablett, Bartel, Hunt, Mackie, Johnson, Kelly.. just to name a few 

Edited August 26, 2016 by JV7

[The Big Sauce 25]

Late change for tomorrow. 

Matty Jones comes into the side. 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,817]

3 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Seems to me that it's Garlett for ANB; Harmes for Michie; and Salem to allow Vince to play in the midfield in place of Oliver. Salem then becomes one of the four small defenders - the model we've played all year.

All seems very logical. Vince plays his best football on the wing or on the ball. I fully expect him to spend most of the day on Dangerfield.

What I don't understand is why Michie came in for Harmes in the first place. Maybe because of the wet weather last weekend? 

Harmes was rested last week, but my view is that Salem or Grimes were much better options than Mitchie. Kennedy or even JKH/Newton would have been much better options for Garlett and Pedo should never have been omitted for Weid.

They should have at least started Vince on Crisps to provide a physical contest and negating role there.  Crisps dominantion was entirely predictable.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[stuie 7,374]

1 hour ago, JV7 said:

Just look at the players Geelong had in their 2002 VFL Premiership side... Seemed to work well for them. Ablett, Bartel, Hunt, Mackie, Johnson, Kelly.. just to name a few 

North did pretty well in the 90s out of their group who came through under 18s and VFL together too

 

[stuie 7,374]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

NAME SOME!

Really? Did you just start following Melbourne this year or something?

 

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

17 hours ago, picket fence said:

Worst decision in years Clarry has a dip !! Sheeit I just can't fathom this! Speechless!!

Given the number of posts I have seen from you on this topic I dont think "Speechless" is the right word.

[Adam The God 30,218]

2 hours ago, stuie said:

Well he can either play 1 more senior game or he can play possibly 4 or so more VFL games including a grand final.

Seems clear which would be better for his long term development.

 

Particularly if they can win that Grand Final, ala the Geelong VFL team.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

8 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Yep, I know where you are coming from.  I guess my statement somewhat reflected a personal emotional apathy towards this game after the disaster of last week and the horrible selection decisions which were made prior to that game.

That said, I actually think that by in large, the 'youth' selected in the team this year have been up to it.  Was very impressed about the way Wagner went about his game from his second game onwards (until he got tired), Oscar was holding his own somewhat even early on because at that time Dunn and Garland's form wasn't so great either.  I thought Frost looked the goods from early in the year (it wasn't his fault he was being played out of position), Billy has been worthy of his position in the side for the most part, Harmes is harder than many of the players five years his senior and Hunt, Track, Clary, Gus all goes without saying.

I would agree that Weid is probably still a bit too lean for my liking and would probably prefer to see Pedo in there as well, but per the Hawthorn game, Weid is not incapable of providing a valuable contribution.  I don't quite know how the coaches should deal with ANB, I think he has potential, but just doesn't look quite ready/up to it when they have brought him in this year.

I don't think we should be as quick as some suggest to dispose of Dunn, Garland, Pedo or even Dawes though.  As you suggest, we are only a long term injury away to Tommy Mac, or Hogan from needing a sound, mature backup.

Most of the kids have been great Balls for sure but down back it took them quite some time, maybe half the season or slightly longer, before their numbers and results in terms of hitting targets/Turnovers, started to see improvement vs earlier in the season and that was coming off a pretty low base.

Like all inexperienced players, we had some playing out of their skin and having a blinder, some went missing, others played an OK game for half a game, missing for the 2nd half etc.

I'm fine with a slight youth bias, it's when we go too far a la last week that IMO sees us pretty much throwing away a decent chance of winning (or getting close to it more often). 

If we had 8 to 10 players of calibre and experience at the top end (eg; 100/150 plus games) I reckon we would rarely see results like last week or the Bombers. Instead we are lucky if we go in with 3 or 4 max with over 100 games each week.

The fact that we haven't got those 8 to 10 and instead usually have 10 plus rookies (sub 50 games) most weeks means we can't just throw an extra raw boned, skinny wet one gamer in to critical contests  (finals berth in the offing) like  we did with Weids last week. Nor players that have been tried at AFL level and have shown they aren't quite able to take the next step in their previous matches (ANB/Michie).

I love the Weids style and reckon he'll also be a solid addition with another pre-season or two. His first half against the Hawks was a great insight into what he might bring for 3 to 4 quarters (eventually) after he gets those pre-seasons under his belt. He was probably playing on adrenalin in that first half and we saw the great potential he offers. But that adrenalin doesn't last through an entire game, nor necessarily through the next one, the one after that etc etc. Only time, effort, lots of gym/strength work/match time and fitness/experience will see him move through that wall that I'm sure most new players hit when first starting out, either during a match or at some stage during a season.

Oscar, Frost, Wagner have also no doubt hit the wall at various stages this season. Frost has shown some progress and would want to have vs his early form. Seems to be working his way slowly to an acceptable level but I'm not as bullish or as convinced  on him being a lock in HB just yet. The jury is out and a big W.I.P. IMO. I still think he may play a few games up forward at some point and may also need a stint at Casey for a while to work on aspects of his game before returning. In this case we may well need to call on the likes of Dunny (if he's still around) or swing Pedersen down  back to cover.

We can all see the improvement on the field and we can see that the FD has been developing and bringing a run and gun fast break attack style off HB by moulding and bringing in kids who can do so, as well as work a forward press etc.

But you need balance in defence and when an opponent gets hold of your turnovers and starts winning the centre clearance  work, as the Blues did last week, you also need one or two very experienced dour types to prevent the dyke from bursting, taking critical marks when needed, playing a "slower" but higher percentage style of possession footy to control the tempo and kill a run on. Poise and a cool head in a crisis if you want to call it that. That only comes with much experience.

The key word here is balance, across all lines and in general. When we achieve that we'll start seeing some consistency and a good team that rarely drops matches like last week and the Bombers. Regular finals appearances should follow.

The Swans are a great example of never going too far with either youth or seniority and usually have a nice balance preferring to recruit ready made players along with a smaller focus on some youth in the draft. It's no coincidence that they have only missed 3 finals series since 1996 when Eade took over.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Rusty Nails

[The Real Big Sauce 1]

The Big Sauce. How do u know. And why are you using my actual photo as your photo. 

[picket fence 17,137]

17 minutes ago, stuie said:

North did pretty well in the 90s out of their group who came through under 18s and VFL together too

 

You are joking/ We are talking CASEY not a stand alone Melbourne F.C 

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

18 hours ago, picket fence said:

Worst decision in years Clarry has a dip !! Sheeit I just can't fathom this! Speechless!!

No you aren't. Quite the opposite.

[picket fence 17,137]

1 hour ago, The Big Sauce said:

Late change for tomorrow. 

Matty Jones comes into the side. 

What a wondrful change that will be !! Who goes out?

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, picket fence said:

You are joking/ We are talking CASEY not a stand alone Melbourne F.C 

Yes Picket, and from what AFL team do the Casey players come?

Come on champ, I can hear your brain ticking over, you can do this!

 

[Biffen 12,940]

Picket- you get to watch Clarry Choo Choo for another few weeks.

You can go watch him and Stuie can watch Dawes ( if fit).