The Loss we had to Have...

[rjay 24,851]

I think we're on the right path but still have a way to go...

I know we would have loved the finals fairy tale but it was not to be and in truth never was going to happen.

We're not good enough yet, the EFC game early in the year probably stamped those papers.

I'm not sure if it's the loss the club had to have as I hope those running the football club are a bit more astute than those (including self) on this forum but as supporters we overrate our list. Most fans do, it's the fans motto to be like the tigers. Unfortunately for the Tiges it's the pros that get it wrong.

It's a loss that as supporters we can use to evaluate where we are and where we are heading. Sorry but I've just browsed the other threads and I just don't buy the idea that we got big heads, got ahead of ourselves, or we're going nowhere, match day coaching, selection, the umpires cost us... or any other of the hand wringing responses a day like today brings.

A few things stood out for me today and if being truthful have for the year. Some will be fixed with experience and some will need changes such as list changes to fix.

Firstly, some of the players.

I don't think Frosty is going to make it, will need a footy brain transplant in the off season. Not going to happen.

Viney is not the heir apparent to me, not yet anyway. Love his passion but he's doing too much of a Moloney at the moment. Needs to open his eyes and use better options, needs to play for the team. He hits up balls that sometimes his teammate is in a better position to get, puts the team offside. This can all be fixed, a leader needs to keep his head...Jack's young and not there yet.

ANB deserved a run but we know he's not a small forward, had a purple patch last year against the Cats but it was one out of the box. Still only 20 so has time so lets see but as a smaller ground player has no tricks and few mids ahead of him.

Kent to me is still a player in the balance, yes he got an injury today but was very average early. He has a tendency to be a bit lazy and showed it again today, not good in the air and lacks some real tricks to be a top level small forward. He's done enough this year but next year it's his make or break, must be more consistent.

I like that Weed got another taste today, he's had a good one and a bad one. I reckon any KPP worth his salt need this experience early, he's had it and depending on conditions should have another run at Geelong next week. Preseason and the weight room will sort him out.

I'm concerned that we overuse the ball, particularly when it gets wet. It's why we struggle in these games. I hope Goodwin has an alt plan but fear this might be a bit of the South Aus influence. They were renowned for p.....around with the footy.

Still not convinced with young Billy, he's a good kid but will he take us to a flag? to early to tell. A bit will depend on the game plan.

Vanders, a good story but probably going to finish at Casey. A natural mid with to many ahead of him, it might have been a good day to throw him in today but I don't think the club see him that way.

Oscar & Tommy were good, a lot of ball coming in today but lets face it the Blues have no forwards. Oscar like Weed need to weight room.

Buggy, a good pest to have as back up but not a best 22...

We know Viv is a good VFL player, probably not quite there but hasn't had  the opportunity of consistent games and probably won't.

Bernie, best footy behind him now. Will still play some good games but don't expect him to do it week in week out. Should have been used on Gibbs today, said it to a mate in the first few mins of Q1. Bernie needs a role and we are not a tier one team who can afford to go head to head with good midfields, we still need to tag (run with).

We really need a 2nd ruck/forward, that's pretty obvious. Max can't do it all and today if we had that option Jack could have helped counter the 3rd man up pretty easily.

Hunt can't be our only runner, oppo have worked that one out. He still did his job today though. Need another good runner, not Frost.

Hibberd will be a bonus if we get him, we need hard, experienced defenders who can attack and kick the ball well.

I think we could do with a class mid but not a small mid like Prestia. Don't know if one is availably but if I was list manager I would be looking at a FA over the next couple of years as Jones & Vince wind down.

Another versatile tall would be good, play back & forward.

Of the Casey crew we have Hullet who looks promising, Harmes needs to sort out disposal, Wagner could be ok, Salem needs a good run (next year make or break), J Smith looks the goods need Spencer as back up and I would keep Trengove, unsure about JKH (would trade for a good offer).

The rest are not part of the plan moving forward as far as I see it...

Here's looking forward to better times ahead, not concerned missing finals this year but would be very concerned next year...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Nasher
Removed plusses from thread title

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

[Josh 1,420]

Agree the loss we had to have. No team who loses to Essendon this year deserves finals.

 

RE players... Wow, enjoy your humble pie in 3 years

[Biffen 12,940]

5 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

That's actually true.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I feel as though we've said 'this is the loss we needed to have' a few times this year.  Not sure if this is one of them - to me, this is a win we needed to have, not the other way around.  I'm disappointed but, like others, I can see the improvement this year and I'm excited for the off season for our younger players.

What I'm thoroughly looking forward to are, hopefully, injury free pre-seasons for guys like Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver and Salem.  4 talented, quality players who can slot straight into our midfield and improve it instantly.  I know Oliver has played there most of the year, but with bigger tanks and more experience, they can all be in there more often and impact the game on a greater level.  That goes for others like Stretch and VandenBerg as well.

It's an exciting future, regardless of today's result, but the pressure for further improvement is most certainly on for 2017.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

The problem is rjay, we've been having these losses for 10 [censored] years!

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

2 minutes ago, Biffen said:

That's actually true.

And in your case Biff, it could be before you finish your next sentence!

[John Crow Batty 8,860]

The disturbing thing we have had a few of these losses in the past couple of seasons and I hoped the Essendon game might have been the last but now we have managed to bookend the season. Whist  we have improved overall there still appears to be hubris self inflicted by drinking our own bath water that could see us easily slide backwards next season if we don't eliminate this mentality.

[Demon Disciple 12,062]

The loss we had to have.....................you're kidding me right?

With potential finals on the line, and with all the talk coming out of the club (mostly the playing group) about not looking to next week and just focusing on Carlton, i'd have thought that it was the win we needed to have.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 minute ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

The problem is rjay, we've been having these losses for 10 [censored] years!

Enough time for some quality reds to have aged and mellowed

[rjay 24,851]

10 minutes ago, Josh said:

Agree the loss we had to have. No team who loses to Essendon this year deserves finals.

 

RE players... Wow, enjoy your humble pie in 3 years

Put it on the line 'Josh'.

Where am I wrong? Where will I eat humble pie?

How do you see the list?

[Deevout 492]

We have had way way to many "losses that we have had to have" I am over them. They will stay with me forever as I burn in hell for eternity.

I had the joy of a group of Carlton supported join me to rev me up with usual stuff that some opposition supports cannot resist doing, even to a Melbourne supporter. I said yes today your the better team, yes we are playing badly. Ect for half an hour. After the siren and when they had stopped their celebrations after 9 weeks of losing I said: 

You had your win again, but I will take Melbournes list over Carltons any day of the week!

 See you here next year.

[Guest]

I really believe that a large part of our failure today was our mental application.

Viney is a huge barometer, he wasn't in the game early and we were smashed around the footy.  That set the game up.

They were on and we were off and we never recovered.

The list itself is in good shape, we lack maturity and strong leaders.

 

 

 

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Nah 

[JV7 2,350]

16 minutes ago, rjay said:

Put it on the line 'Josh'.

Where am I wrong? Where will I eat humble pie?

How do you see the list?

Please... Where do I start ?

Frost has been good since settling down back, yes his disposal & decision making can be questionable but his played 40 games, give him time to work on his deficiencies. 

Kent does have his up & down weeks & even in games goes missing but up until today his 2nd half of the year has been consistent.

Stretch will be involved in our next tilt at a flag. 

Vince, I agree his 2nd half of the year has been shocking...

Bugg has been a good pick up, hes form the last couple of weeks before today was good. His only 23. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by JV7

[Gator 17,261]

Frost is still very young in "games played" terns and has some incredible attributes.  I think he can improve his decision making. 

Next year is "make or break" for Salem ? Way too early to say that.  I've seen enough to be very confident he'll be a long term important player. 

Stretch is also very young.  He's either still a teenager or just turned 20.  I'd reserve judgment for at least another year.

We have deficiencies to address, but it is a young and very exciting list.  

Edited August 21, 2016 by ProDee

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

Do not make excuses

Today was a disgrace. A real chance & they were not switched on

How many times does Jones fail dismally in crucial games?

[Josh 1,420]

23 minutes ago, rjay said:

Put it on the line 'Josh'.

Where am I wrong? Where will I eat humble pie?

How do you see the list?

OK, VB and losing to Carlton may have spoken on my behalf, there are some fair points there on second read.

 

I just see this list as young and learning. Will they all make it? No. Is the best footy past some older blokes? Yes.

 

Are we in a better place than this time last year? The year before? The year before?

 

You see where I'm going

 

I am Bitter But Optimistic today, and I look forward to some heated debate over the off season 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Josh
Spelling

[Biffen 12,940]

28 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

And in your case Biff, it could be before you finish your next sentence!

15 years is a long time and they'll never catch me anyway.

 

[Chook 15,012]

10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Do not make excuses

Today was a disgrace. A real chance & they were not switched on

How many times does Jones fail dismally in crucial games?

How many times do we have crucial games?

[Moonshadow 17,675]

9 minutes ago, Josh said:

I am Bitter But Optimistic today

I always knew you were a split personality Uncle Bitter, or maybe it's two faced. I don't know...

[rjay 24,851]

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Frost is still very young in "games played" terns and has some incredible attributes.  I think he can improve his decision making. 

Next year is "make or break" for Salem ? Way too early to say that.  I've seen enough to be very confident he'll be a long term important player. 

Stretch is also very young.  He's either still a teenager or just turned 20.  I'd reserve judgment for at least another year.

We have deficiencies to address, but it is a young and very exciting list.  

Not convinced on this one 'Pro', he sure needs to though.

Salem will be a player but how far he goes is the question for me. Will he be a good average player or start to be the player we think he can be? next year will tell that story for me. Maybe not a true make of break.

Stretch, many were pumping him up over the last few weeks. Today shows he's no guarantee.

Yep, it's a young exciting list. It's why I see today as part of the growth and haven't been devastated by the loss. You could see it coming in the first 10 mins.

17 minutes ago, JV7 said:

Please... Where do I start ?

Frost has been good since settling down back, yes his disposal & decision making can be questionable but his played 40 games, give him time to work on his deficiencies. 

Kent does have his up & down weeks & even in games goes missing but up until today his 2nd half of the year has been consistent.

Stretch will be involved in our next tilt at a flag. 

Vince, I agree his 2nd half of the year has been shocking...

Bugg has been a good pick up, hes form the last couple of weeks before today was good. His only 23. 

I stand by the comments on Frost

Kent & Stretch are no guarantees.

Vince not shocking just getting older even though he still looks and behaves like a kid. Some of his indiscretions this year are a sign of a player getting frustrated, still has a role.

Bugg is a depth player, along with Harmes they will fill a role but both hit of miss kicks. We need Hibberd...

You are looking at the list like Dimmer, can't see the faults for the team loyalty.

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

5 minutes ago, Chook said:

How many times do we have crucial games?

Not enough. But today was sure one of them...

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,325]

The loss we had to have....did we run out of themes for the week.

This is my main concern....so we came out cocky and got jumped early and then....nothing. 

Today again was all mental. 

If we're not on from the opening bounce it's all over.

 

 

[The heart beats true 18,095]

27 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Do not make excuses

Today was a disgrace. A real chance & they were not switched on

How many times does Jones fail dismally in crucial games?

If we won it wouldn't have been a crucial game. Was the Hawks or Port games crucial? Yep - and was he good? Yep.

They are only crucial in hindsight and our entire midfield 'team' got beaten today.

Stop having a crack at Jones. He's been our only consistent player over the passed 5 years. Thats not 'supporting' anything.