23 hours ago, Fitz Fitzpatrick said:

Melksham is a very ordinary footballer. Too many are getting sucked in by his story and the fact he's a new recruit. He is depth only. Hibberd is a much better recruit.

Not what we saw against the Blues.  The other way around. 

9 hours ago, demon9 said:

I still think VDB will end up causing more turn overs off his own boot than any pressure acts.

You could probably say that about all of them (less so JKH)

Great assessment LT - in particular I share your views on Melksham and Bugg. Two very underrated players here.

 

10 hours ago, demon9 said:

I still think VDB will end up causing more turn overs off his own boot than any pressure acts.

Slightly tangential to what this is meant to be about but given the AFL's widespread set shot issues...  Is VDB the only player who is a better set shot than he is in play?. Like there are the Watts' of the world that are good kicks anywhere but everyone else seems to get worse from a setshot while VDB gets so much better. 

On 3/1/2017 at 1:34 AM, Fitz Fitzpatrick said:

Melksham is a very ordinary footballer. Too many are getting sucked in by his story and the fact he's a new recruit. He is depth only. Hibberd is a much better recruit. Melksham was an ordinary trade.Poor decision making and average skills under pressure. 

Jetta is an integral part of the back line . He breaks up play and his scramble defense is nearly second to none. Plays taller than he is.

Jetta remains best 22

I wont argue about jetta's place in the team because he is so much loved around here, but on melksham: I agree that he is a pretty average footballer but I (assume others as well)  would be astounded if he wasnt played in the first 5 rounds or so. They put so much into getting him and Hibbard to the club they will be keen to give them both a decent shot at AFL level before picking others ahead of them

Garlett would be a loss if he doesn't make it to round 1.

Having said the he's been absolutely atrocious against St Kilda since he's come over. I think he's managed just 3 goals in 4 games with Geary giving him a an absolute bath in all games, including kicking 2 on him in one particular game last year.

Not much love for Jetta anymore due to lack of offensive capabilities. Was this not raised 12 months ago....

I don't like sending players out there at the start of the season with any question marks on them, so Garlett isn't in my 22. Kent is in, provided he really has recovered now.

Like others, I'm concerned about our lack of tall defenders ready to go. Only the Golden Arches and Joel Smith have had any pre-season game so far - on that basis, right now you'd have to have Smith in the team to give some kind of height. None of Frost, Garland or Pederson have had a run yet.

At the moment I don't have Hibberd. Melksham I hesitated at first but his second game has given me confidence to put him in.

For me Vandenberg is in, largely on account of 2 goals, 2 goal assists, and a ridonkulus 10 score involvements against Carlton. That means every effective disposal he had, ended up being a scoring shot. I'll take that across half forward any day.

Watts is in, because as much as I think Weideman is great, I don't think he's currently playing full AFL-level games. Assuming, of course, Watts plays the final JLT game, and does something about that hair.

Hogan I've got playing close to goal, with no real CHF position out there as I expect to see the whole half-forward area being used as a space for our scary monsters to run around in. Scary monsters, and Watts. If his hair was blue the whole scene would look like it was cut from 'Avatar'.

And now for the real shock. I'm including Cameron Pederson. On the field as a forward pocket, but really there as a tall utility. We must have a tall defensive option to swing back in case any of the St Kilda tall forwards start to really dominate their opponent. Pederson's versatility and unselfishness means it's no loss to have him in that forward line, and he draws a tall defender. I also see it as a plus to have both Watts and Pederson available to take just a few hitouts each when GAWN needs to attend an Entmoot.

B:      Jetta            T.Mac           Smith

HB:    Hunt            O.Mac          Stretch   

C:      Salem          Lewis            Vince

HF:   Petracca      Watts             VDB

F:      Kent            Hogan          Pederson!

Foll:   GAWN        Jones           Viney

Interchange:  

Oliver,    Brayshaw,   Tyson,   Melksham.

Would it shock anyone that we haven't beaten St Kilda at Etihad since 2002?

3 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Would it shock anyone that we haven't beaten St Kilda at Etihad since 2002?

Would it surprise you we have never beaten Geelong at Etihad?


In the clubs defence we have never played them there 

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Would it shock anyone that we haven't beaten St Kilda at Etihad since 2002?

I remember going to that match: I think Steven Armstrong played well!

11 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Like others, I'm concerned about our lack of tall defenders ready to go. Only the Golden Arches and Joel Smith have had any pre-season game so far - on that basis, right now you'd have to have Smith in the team to give some kind of height. None of Frost, Garland or Pederson have had a run yet.

At the moment I don't have Hibberd. Melksham I hesitated at first but his second game has given me confidence to put him in.

 

This was my initial reaction too, but Membery is only 188cm, so I don't think needs a massive tall on him and if Hibberd is fit I think would be our perfect match up on him. Not saying Smith would be out, but in form and fit I think Hibberd gets a game. I expect he might be like Milkshake and be much better in his second JLT game.

15 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

I don't like sending players out there at the start of the season with any question marks on them, so Garlett isn't in my 22. Kent is in, provided he really has recovered now.

Like others, I'm concerned about our lack of tall defenders ready to go. Only the Golden Arches and Joel Smith have had any pre-season game so far - on that basis, right now you'd have to have Smith in the team to give some kind of height. None of Frost, Garland or Pederson have had a run yet.

At the moment I don't have Hibberd. Melksham I hesitated at first but his second game has given me confidence to put him in.

For me Vandenberg is in, largely on account of 2 goals, 2 goal assists, and a ridonkulus 10 score involvements against Carlton. That means every effective disposal he had, ended up being a scoring shot. I'll take that across half forward any day.

Watts is in, because as much as I think Weideman is great, I don't think he's currently playing full AFL-level games. Assuming, of course, Watts plays the final JLT game, and does something about that hair.

Hogan I've got playing close to goal, with no real CHF position out there as I expect to see the whole half-forward area being used as a space for our scary monsters to run around in. Scary monsters, and Watts. If his hair was blue the whole scene would look like it was cut from 'Avatar'.

And now for the real shock. I'm including Cameron Pederson. On the field as a forward pocket, but really there as a tall utility. We must have a tall defensive option to swing back in case any of the St Kilda tall forwards start to really dominate their opponent. Pederson's versatility and unselfishness means it's no loss to have him in that forward line, and he draws a tall defender. I also see it as a plus to have both Watts and Pederson available to take just a few hitouts each when GAWN needs to attend an Entmoot.

B:      Jetta            T.Mac           Smith

HB:    Hunt            O.Mac          Stretch   

C:      Salem          Lewis            Vince

HF:   Petracca      Watts             VDB

F:      Kent            Hogan          Pederson!

Foll:   GAWN        Jones           Viney

Interchange:  

Oliver,    Brayshaw,   Tyson,   Melksham.

I like LG's use of Stretch in the backline and if it turns out Jetta is not out man we should consider pushing Stretch further back to take on the small forwards. I like Jetta and believe his one on one skills outweigh his deficiencies on the rebound. But if he is to be replaced Stretch has speed, disposal and discipline. Given the competition for spots in the midfield I reckon he would provide another (developing) asset deep back.

FROST  T.MCD  HIBBERD

J.SMITH  O.MCD  SALEM

HUNT  VINEY  STRETCH

HARMES  HOGAN  PETRACCA

GARLETT   WEIDEMAN  WATTS

GAWN  LEWIS  JONES

BRAYSHAW  VINCE  OLIVER  MELKSHAM

emergency: BUGG  PEDERSEN  TYSON

underdone  KENT  JETTA  

Inj. Wagner  King  JKH  VDNberger

6 hours ago, Tram 74 said:

I like LG's use of Stretch in the backline and if it turns out Jetta is not out man we should consider pushing Stretch further back to take on the small forwards. I like Jetta and believe his one on one skills outweigh his deficiencies on the rebound. But if he is to be replaced Stretch has speed, disposal and discipline. Given the competition for spots in the midfield I reckon he would provide another (developing) asset deep back.

I can't see Jetts playing in this game. They're too tall up forward to play him. 

I said I wasn't gonna do a deadset prediction until after JLT and now that it's over... (considering injuries. I'd probably have Frost over O.Mac)

B: Jetta - O.Mac - Hibberd

HB: Hunt - T.Mac - Vince 

C: Lewis - Oliver - Stretch 

HF: Petracca - Hogan - Kent

FF: Garlett - Spencer - Watts

FOLL : Gawn - Viney - Jones 

INT: Tyson - Brayshaw - Melksham - Salem

EMG: Weideman - Bugg- Smith

Edited March 9, 20178 yr by DemonLad5

7 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

I said I wasn't gonna do a deadset prediction until after JLT and now that it's over... (considering injuries. I'd probably have Frost over O.Mac)

B: Jetta - O.Mac - Hibberd

HB: Hunt - T.Mac - Vince 

C: Lewis - Oliver - Stretch 

HF: Petracca - Hogan - Kent

FF: Garlett - Spencer - Watts

FOLL : Gawn - Viney - Jones 

INT: Tyson - Brayshaw - Melksham - Salem

EMG: Weideman - Bugg- Smith

I'll have Bugg over stretch. Didn't see any outside run or creativity from him tonight. Isn't that what he is supposedly in the team for,? Bugg has a go and was good, again.

B: MELKSHAM, T.MCDONALD, GARLAND

HB: HUNT, O.MCDONALD, VINCE

C: SALEM, JONES, LEWIS

HF: PETRACCA, WATTS, BRAYSHAW

F: GARLETT, HOGAN, SPENCER

FOLL: GAWN, VINEY, OLIVER

IC: TYSON, HIBBERD, STRETCH, BUGG

EMERG: WEIDEMAN, HARMES, NEAL-BULLEN 

FB: Hunt  Oscar  Hibberd/Garland
HB: Melky  Tom Mc  Lewis
C:  Vince   Viney   Stretch
HF: Tracc   Hogan  Brayshaw
FF: Watts  Spencer  Garlett/ANB
Foll: Gawn  Oliver   Jones
Int: Tyson  Salem  Bugg  Kent/ANB/Harmes/Hannan

Pretty much Spencer gets the nod over Weed and then we see if any of the 3 who could make it back before round 1 do. 

Bernie Vince needs to do an old fashioned tagging job on Riewoldt. He's off no use at half back. Salem and Lewis have to cover the half back spot.

Melksham annoys me but if they want to play an aggressive hard running zone backline then he gets the nod over Jetta who just doesn't have the tank to play that way.

I've been saying this all preseason but I really want to look at Hannan, hopefully he plays at Casey tomorrow. He's drafted to play half forward, he's got the skills, I would have no problems throwing him in for a round 1 debut if he shows a bit at Casey if the alternative was picking guys who aren't performing in the role.

16 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

FB: Hunt  Oscar  Hibberd/Garland
HB: Melky  Tom Mc  Lewis
C:  Vince   Viney   Stretch
HF: Tracc   Hogan  Brayshaw
FF: Watts  Spencer  Garlett/ANB
Foll: Gawn  Oliver   Jones
Int: Tyson  Salem  Bugg  Kent/ANB/Harmes/Hannan

Pretty much Spencer gets the nod over Weed and then we see if any of the 3 who could make it back before round 1 do. 

You really think they'll play Spencer in round 1 against the Saints at Etihad ?

I very much doubt it will happen.

34 minutes ago, ProDee said:

You really think they'll play Spencer in round 1 against the Saints at Etihad ?

I very much doubt it will happen.

I think too much gets made of the v the Saints and Etihad factor. Sure they are quick and it's a fast and small ground but plenty of teams win games there against them with a tall line up. They'll probably be playing Carlisle and Nathan Brown who aren't exactly speedy rebounding defenders. The talls can chase the talls and the smalls can chase the smalls! If it comes down to Weed v Spencer playing as the 2nd tall (with Watts rucking or not) then I think Spencer has done enough.

If we don't want to pick Spencer for concerns about pace and run then I wouldn't pick Weed either and I'd go with Hogan, Watts and hope Petracca can compete in the air. 

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

I think too much gets made of the v the Saints and Etihad factor. Sure they are quick and it's a fast and small ground but plenty of teams win games there against them with a tall line up. They'll probably be playing Carlisle and Nathan Brown who aren't exactly speedy rebounding defenders. The talls can chase the talls and the smalls can chase the smalls! If it comes down to Weed v Spencer playing as the 2nd tall (with Watts rucking or not) then I think Spencer has done enough.

If we don't want to pick Spencer for concerns about pace and run then I wouldn't pick Weed either and I'd go with Hogan, Watts and hope Petracca can compete in the air. 

I feel as though Spencer diminishes Gawn.

Gawn's not great resting forward, he's much better drifting forward with the flight of the ball and taking a mark inside the 50 while still playing on-ball.  When he's stationed there I don't see him being much of a forward threat.  And Spencer is no full-forward either.

Fair enough if they don't include Weideman or Spencer, but given the choice of the two I'd rather Weideman, as I feel he works better with Hogan.  Spencer will just get in Hogan's way and is useless with defensive pressure. 

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts.

I like Stretch but feel these pre season games he has struggled, VFL for round 1, Harmes, ANB likewise...

 

Please no Garland / Omac in the same team again..

 

Imo one of Spencer / Weed doesn't play, makes us to top heavy up forward, need to be more nimble up there, create pressure. 

 

Get VFL practice games into Frost, Hibberd, Garlett, Kent if fit. 

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

I feel as though Spencer diminishes Gawn.

Gawn's not great resting forward, he's much better drifting forward with the flight of the ball and taking a mark inside the 50 while still playing on-ball.  When he's stationed there I don't see him being much of a forward threat.  And Spencer is no full-forward either.

Fair enough if they don't include Weideman or Spencer, but given the choice of the two I'd rather Weideman, as I feel he works better with Hogan.  Spencer will just get in Hogan's way and is useless with defensive pressure. 

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts.

The question is how much Spencer should ruck. If Gawn can still ruck 70% then that's almost ideal as he can still run around in the ruck and be in the game and is only forward for about 20% -  really just a short change up, maybe when Hogan is either off or on the ball so the 2 don't get in the way. 

That would mean Spencer rucks 30% and probably plays forward for no more than 50% of the game. Can he grab a mark or a free and kick 1 or 2 goals and not get in the way deep? Will he chase effectively and efficiently or just give away free kicks. I kind of want to find out. The Swans and Hawks are 2 teams that play 2 rucks most of the time including some pretty ordinary forwards (think Ceglar/McEvoy etc) and they manage to just get their rucks out of the way up forward. I'd love to learn how they get their ruckman just to sit on a forward flank whilst the ball gets directed to the star forward.

The other thing playing Spencer does is allow Watts to stay forward, maybe with a little change up on the wing. The ruck was good to get him involved in games last year but it really isn't his go and if he's down on intensity and physicality will it really help him? Without the 3rd man up even against Josh Bruce he'll be in trouble in the ruck.

I'd laugh at the idea of picking Spencer even a month ago but he's fit, he's training better than he ever has, he gives his best, he's physical. It goes against everything I think about round 1 which is to pick a fit running side, but I just think Spencer is the fit running player compared to Weeds.

3 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I feel as though Spencer diminishes Gawn.

Gawn's not great resting forward, he's much better drifting forward with the flight of the ball and taking a mark inside the 50 while still playing on-ball.  When he's stationed there I don't see him being much of a forward threat.  And Spencer is no full-forward either.

Fair enough if they don't include Weideman or Spencer, but given the choice of the two I'd rather Weideman, as I feel he works better with Hogan.  Spencer will just get in Hogan's way and is useless with defensive pressure. 

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts.

At the moment Weiderman isn't a full forward either. He floats across the front of the goals without providing commanding leads like a Dunstall. If he is going to float like that I'd rather a bigger body like Spencer who is more likely to clunk the mark or make sure as hell they don't.

Weiderman is clearly better than Spencer when the ball hits the ground but that is not the primary role of the position.

Defensively I'd prefer Spencer. He is more aggressive and without having a stop watch on either I'd say faster.

There is no question in the long term Weiderman is our preferred option. Round 1 I would lean towards Spencer. We obviously can't play both. Perhaps we wont play either.