MATCH PREVIEW AND TEAM SELECTION - Round 19

[old dee 23,792]

3 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

I rate Vandenberg as a big powerful mid capable of kicking goals and punishing teams that reminds me of Swans Kennedy. And his improvement in his almost two years on the list has been as good as any.

23 games in, big fan

Last year yes PaulRB but this year ordinary.

Now he maybe carrying an ankle problem but he does not deserve a game at present based on his form.

[praha 11,240]

5 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Which makes the GC game critical. After that Hawthorn, Port at Adelaide, Carlton at the G and the Cats at Kardina. The Cats we have beaten once from the last 11 games, the Blues once from the last 9 games, Port twice form the last 7 and the Hawks have beaten us the last 13 games. 9 games is a stretch and would bevery good if we could get it beating two of those teams.

While we are undoubtedly playing better than recent years our win/loss record is still poor. Our three losses to Essendon and St Kilda have hurt us badly. We haven't beaten anyone inside the eight and if we finish on 7 wins it would be my view that our year has been disappointing. Particulalry when PJ and ROos were aiming for finals.

 

 

Well we beat GWS but yeah that doesn't count.

We should have won at least 6 in 2014.

Last year should have won at least 8.

We should be on 9 wins at this stage.

I like what Roos has brought to this club but ultimately, leadership has let us down during games we should be winning, and he and the coaching staff have all too often gone against their mantra during selection. I am still filthy about the Essendon loss and the Saints a few weeks ago. I can let the first Saints loss pass because it was a quick turnaround after the Sunday night game.

8 was my pass last year, and 10 is my pass this year. If we don't reach 10 this year (spoiler: we won't) then it'll be an asterix next to Roos tenure that would only be removed if the talent he has brought in leads us to finals in 2017.

I still think it's a between-the-ears issue. We should smash GC tomorrow but I suspect a close game. A loss would undoubtedly mark Roos' tenure as a failure on most supporters eyes. 

Really, we haven't made any more progress in three years than Bailey did in three. Granted we were coming from further back, and I still think Roos has been a better coach than Bailey, but we haven't "turned the corner". 

Roos and his team have two chances to do that. Vs Hawthorn, and vs Geelong. Tough ask, but we continue to struggle at Etihad, continue to struggle away from home, continue to struggle against Saints, North, Hawks, can't win in Perth, can't play consistently good football. So it's now down to two matches for Roos and his team to prove their worth, and it's two of the hardest tests in footy you could ask for.

A win against Hawthorn or Geelong and we're a top 6 side in 2017. Get smashed by both and nothing will change.

[PaulRB 6,363]

12 minutes ago, old dee said:

Last year yes PaulRB but this year ordinary.

Now he maybe carrying an ankle problem but he does not deserve a game at present based on his form.

Agree he was better last year, disagree he doesn't deserve a game this year.

He's a 191 big bodied forward/mid who is a bull in a pack when on song, plus at 23 games in he's one season into his career, improving and will be a monster at game 100.

Has work to do on his engine but has the appetite... 

Edited July 30, 2016 by PaulRB

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

Yet again, and needless to say, a MUST win tomorrow.

No matter what else happens this year, we MUST finish above the [censored] Filth. It's making my skin crawl just thinking about it. 

[Ricky P 757]

4 hours ago, praha said:

Well we beat GWS but yeah that doesn't count.

We should have won at least 6 in 2014.

Last year should have won at least 8.

We should be on 9 wins at this stage.

I like what Roos has brought to this club but ultimately, leadership has let us down during games we should be winning, and he and the coaching staff have all too often gone against their mantra during selection. I am still filthy about the Essendon loss and the Saints a few weeks ago. I can let the first Saints loss pass because it was a quick turnaround after the Sunday night game.

8 was my pass last year, and 10 is my pass this year. If we don't reach 10 this year (spoiler: we won't) then it'll be an asterix next to Roos tenure that would only be removed if the talent he has brought in leads us to finals in 2017.

I still think it's a between-the-ears issue. We should smash GC tomorrow but I suspect a close game. A loss would undoubtedly mark Roos' tenure as a failure on most supporters eyes. 

Really, we haven't made any more progress in three years than Bailey did in three. Granted we were coming from further back, and I still think Roos has been a better coach than Bailey, but we haven't "turned the corner". 

Roos and his team have two chances to do that. Vs Hawthorn, and vs Geelong. Tough ask, but we continue to struggle at Etihad, continue to struggle away from home, continue to struggle against Saints, North, Hawks, can't win in Perth, can't play consistently good football. So it's now down to two matches for Roos and his team to prove their worth, and it's two of the hardest tests in footy you could ask for.

A win against Hawthorn or Geelong and we're a top 6 side in 2017. Get smashed by both and nothing will change.

Haha you're such a drama queen. A loss tomorrow would be nothing worse than a bitterly disappointing loss for a middle of the road team. A win against Hawthorn would be nothing better than a bloody good win for a middle of the road team. Not everything that happens is epoch-defining.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

26 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

Haha you're such a drama queen. A loss tomorrow would be nothing worse than a bitterly disappointing loss for a middle of the road team. A win against Hawthorn would be nothing better than a bloody good win for a middle of the road team. Not everything that happens is epoch-defining.

I agree Ricky, although even an eternal optimist like myself who looks for the positives in most things will find it a hard pill to swallow if we get done tomorrow.  If we want to move on from just being a 'middle of the road' side then games like tomorrow are the ones we need to win without too much hassle.

[old dee 23,792]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I agree Ricky, although even an eternal optimist like myself who looks for the positives in most things will find it a hard pill to swallow if we get done tomorrow.  If we want to move on from just being a 'middle of the road' side then games like tomorrow are the ones we need to win without too much hassle.

On this one Wiseblood we are in total arguement a loss tomorrow will be devastating.

[Adam The God 30,261]

7 hours ago, old dee said:

Spot on jnr.

Tomorrow sets our season IMO anything less than a win means we have come bugger all distance in 2016.

Okay, so this is what I'd say to this comment...

Terry Wallace was talking on SEN tonight about the top 4. He ran through the top 8's remaining draws and from here locked in Hawthorn and Geelong for the top 4. He then predicted it would likely be Adelaide and one of the Sydney teams that would round out the top 4.

Can I remind you of the following results: we pushed the Hawks, only to go down by 3 goals; we pushed Adelaide, only to go down by 3 and a bit goals; and we beat GWS. Aside from the Sydney game, where the wet conditions clearly hampered our running game and their mature bodies smacked us up, we have been competitive against those really top sides. To say we're potentially 3 goals off where the premiers are, that is a quantum leap forward.

Our improved scoring power and vastly improved ball movement is evidence of how far we've come in 2016. Have people forgotten that in 2015 we barely managed to move the ball with any fluency at any point during the season? Geelong was one of those games, as was the Richmond game. Last year's inability to move the ball quickly was hampered by a totally different game style. 

So what you're doing is talking pessimistic twaddle again, OD. And let the above be a reminder to the rest of you wrist slashers.

Even if we lose tomorrow (we won't - we'll win by 10 goals), there's still marked improvement this season with an extremely young team that will improve again next year. There's too much quality, mixed with inexperience in the team not to grow leaps and bounds in 2017 and 2018. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by AdamFphlebeb

[old dee 23,792]

13 minutes ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Okay, so this is what I'd say to this comment...

Terry Wallace was talking on SEN tonight about the top 4. He ran through the top 8's remaining draws and from here locked in Hawthorn and Geelong for the top 4. He then predicted it would likely be Adelaide and one of the Sydney teams that would round out the top 4.

Can I remind you of the following results: we pushed the Hawks, only to go down by 3 goals; we pushed Adelaide, only to go down by 3 and a bit goals; and we beat GWS. Aside from the Sydney game, where the wet conditions clearly hampered our running game and their mature bodies smacked us up, we have been competitive against those really top sides. To say we're potentially 3 goals off where the premiers are, that is a quantum leap forward.

Our improved scoring power and vastly improved ball movement is evidence of how far we've come in 2016. Have people forgotten that in 2015 we barely managed to move the ball with any fluency at any point during the season? Geelong was one of those games, as was the Richmond game. Last year's inability to move the ball quickly was hampered by a totally different game style. 

So what you're doing is talking pessimistic twaddle again, OD. And let the above be a reminder to the rest of you wrist slashers.

Even if we lose tomorrow (we won't - we'll win by 10 goals), there's still marked improvement this season with an extremely young team that will improve again next year. There's too much quality, mixed with inexperience in the team not to grow leaps and bounds in 2017 and 2018. 

The reverse could be said about you.

talking overly optimistic twaddle again AF.

the simple fact is we lost to Essendrug which is their only win of the season.

we lost  to Hawthorn, we lost to Adelaide.

we all tend to see what we want you want to see great improvement.

so guess what you do.

get a grip we are nowhere near the side you imagine.

Edited July 30, 2016 by old dee

[bing181 9,240]

23 hours ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

I think the FD feel they messed up Brayshaw's development year a little bit ...

I don't know that they do (though how would I know!) ... we didn't have anything like the depth we have this year, and Brayshaw was always ahead of anyone who could come in. He was also probably ahead of Oliver on fitness.

Looking forward to seeing him tomorrow.

[Adam The God 30,261]

12 minutes ago, old dee said:

The reverse could be said about you.

talking overly optimistic twaddle again AF.

the simple fact is we lost to Essendrug which is their only win of the season.

we lost  to Hawthorn, we lost to Adelaide.

we all tend to see what we want you want to see great improvement.

so guess what you do.

get a grip we are nowhere near the side you imagine.

I didn't say we'd had a flawless season or even a great season. That would have meant knocking off Hawthorn, Adelaide and West Coast last week, but there is some grey, OD. To try and argue we'll have come bugger all distance in 2016 if we lose to the Suns tomorrow is just [censored]. It's also not supported by any facts, only your emotions.

[Adam The God 30,261]

13 minutes ago, bing181 said:

I don't know that they do (though how would I know!) ... we didn't have anything like the depth we have this year, and Brayshaw was always ahead of anyone who could come in. He was also probably ahead of Oliver on fitness.

Looking forward to seeing him tomorrow.

Didn't Roos make some noises earlier in the season about 'probably playing Brayshaw too much last season' (paraphrasing)? I think in an ideal world they wouldn't have needed to play him as often, but you're right, he was miles ahead of anyone else.

Can't wait to see how he goes tomorrow too. His last two weeks have been really positive.

[praha 11,240]

12 hours ago, Ricky P said:

Haha you're such a drama queen. A loss tomorrow would be nothing worse than a bitterly disappointing loss for a middle of the road team. A win against Hawthorn would be nothing better than a bloody good win for a middle of the road team. Not everything that happens is epoch-defining.

As it stands, we're giving up pick 7 in the draft. 

Losing to GC, the team with that pick, would be embarrassing. Not bitterly disappointing.

[Undeeterred 3,124]

18 hours ago, praha said:

Well we beat GWS but yeah that doesn't count.

We should have won at least 6 in 2014.

Last year should have won at least 8.

We should be on 9 wins at this stage.

I like what Roos has brought to this club but ultimately, leadership has let us down during games we should be winning, and he and the coaching staff have all too often gone against their mantra during selection. I am still filthy about the Essendon loss and the Saints a few weeks ago. I can let the first Saints loss pass because it was a quick turnaround after the Sunday night game.

8 was my pass last year, and 10 is my pass this year. If we don't reach 10 this year (spoiler: we won't) then it'll be an asterix next to Roos tenure that would only be removed if the talent he has brought in leads us to finals in 2017.

I still think it's a between-the-ears issue. We should smash GC tomorrow but I suspect a close game. A loss would undoubtedly mark Roos' tenure as a failure on most supporters eyes. 

Really, we haven't made any more progress in three years than Bailey did in three. Granted we were coming from further back, and I still think Roos has been a better coach than Bailey, but we haven't "turned the corner". 

Roos and his team have two chances to do that. Vs Hawthorn, and vs Geelong. Tough ask, but we continue to struggle at Etihad, continue to struggle away from home, continue to struggle against Saints, North, Hawks, can't win in Perth, can't play consistently good football. So it's now down to two matches for Roos and his team to prove their worth, and it's two of the hardest tests in footy you could ask for.

A win against Hawthorn or Geelong and we're a top 6 side in 2017. Get smashed by both and nothing will change.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic but, if not, why does it not count? It's just nonsense.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,841]

12 hours ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Didn't Roos make some noises earlier in the season about 'probably playing Brayshaw too much last season' (paraphrasing)? I think in an ideal world they wouldn't have needed to play him as often, but you're right, he was miles ahead of anyone else.

Can't wait to see how he goes tomorrow too. His last two weeks have been really positive.

Probably overplayed Brayshaw this year and perhaps underplayed Oliver this year??

[praha 11,240]

44 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Not sure if you're being sarcastic but, if not, why does it not count? It's just nonsense.

Were they a top 8 side in round 1? It was a fantastic win but what does a Round 1 win against a potential finals side mean if we lose to an Essendon team a week later to gift them their only win of the year? It counts as a win, nothing more, not a win against a top 8 side. 

Edited July 31, 2016 by praha

[What 18,810]

On 27/07/2016 at 7:45 AM, Demonland said:

COLD, COLD, COLD by The Oracle

I expect this week's game against the Gold Coast Suns to deliver final proof on the theory that the young Melbourne team is tiring badly as the season wears on. 

 

Nailed it, Oracle.

[jnrmac 20,089]

23 hours ago, old dee said:

Spot on jnr.

Tomorrow sets our season IMO anything less than a win means we have come bugger all distance in 2016.

We are clearly set for finals next year after today's brilliant game....

[old dee 23,792]

8 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

We are clearly set for finals next year after today's brilliant game....

There may have been a few other minor highlights Jnr

For me there were Two Highlights today

- Jack Watts, played well all day then kicks the goal that wins the game  from 50 metres on the boundy. Then 90 seconds later takes the match saving Mark in the GCS goal square.

- We won.

 

[old dee 23,792]

At the 20 minute mark of the last quarter my wife text me it read.

Neither team deserves the four points in this game.

[Adam The God 30,261]

On 7/30/2016 at 5:20 PM, PaulRB said:

I rate Vandenberg as a big powerful mid capable of kicking goals and punishing teams that reminds me of Swans Kennedy. And his improvement in his almost two years on the list has been as good as any.

23 games in, big fan

You were certainly vindicated today, Paul. Humble pie consumed. Still don't think he'll be more than a fringer going forward though.

[old dee 23,792]

3 minutes ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

You were certainly vindicated today, Paul. Humble pie consumed. Still don't think he'll be more than a fringer going forward though.

Happy to eat humble pie when we win.

I would not have had Vanders in the team.

Without his contribution today we lose.

Todays game was up to a number of his games in 2015.

Good effort.

 

[Adam The God 30,261]

11 minutes ago, old dee said:

Happy to eat humble pie when we win.

I would not have had Vanders in the team.

Without his contribution today we lose.

Todays game was up to a number of his games in 2015.

Good effort.

 

He didn't get a heap of it, but his 3 goals and important mark at CHF late in the game were enough for today.

[PaulRB 6,363]

More so today with Vanders after Hogan was injured and Watts swung into defence, he gave us an option.

Petracca's kicking today was awesome, his 70 m knife into Vanders was sublime.

Edited July 31, 2016 by PaulRB

[Adam The God 30,261]

12 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

More so today with Vanders after Hogan was injured and Watts swung into defence, he gave us an option.

Petracca's kicking today was awesome, his 70 m knife into Vanders was sublime.

Petracca has star written all over him. Makes the right decision at the right time and has the skill to execute.