7 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Yes, but who - that is the problem and why I think they'll stick with Harmes, Oliver and Kennedy for another week.

Further to this we are playing Brisbane - who will be revved up, but will be without their two best midfielders.

Given we are playing the Lions, I have had another thought.

There is one more player who may be considered and that's Weideman. He's been handy (without dominating) at VFL level and they may just feel it's time to blood him at AFL level and try and fast-track him a bit against a weaker side. If that's the case then Pedo will miss, unless of course Lumumba is another week away and they decide to go with a bigger line-up.

Are we also fast tracking him into ruck? I'm sure that 80kg frame of his will be fine.

Out: Jetta, Garland, Pedersen, Hunt, Michie

In: Lumumba, Dunn, Spencer, ANB, Kent

 

Yup...Spencer! Gawn needs a chop out, they can both go forward, both are athletic, and I just remember the game against the Cats where it worked so well. At the moment Pedo is not working hard enough and Frost is (hopefully) being re-groomed as a defender at vfl level...

 

B: Wagner - Dunn - Lumumba 

HB: Salem - T McDonald - Vince

C: Stretch - N Jones - Bugg

HF: Petracca - Watts - Kennedy

F: Kent - Hogan - Garlett

Foll: Gawn - Tyson - Viney

I/c: Oliver - ANB - Spencer - Harmes

29 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

Out: Jetta, Garland, Pedersen, Hunt, Michie

In: Lumumba, Dunn, Spencer, ANB, Kent

 

Yup...Spencer! Gawn needs a chop out, they can both go forward, both are athletic, and I just remember the game against the Cats where it worked so well. At the moment Pedo is not working hard enough and Frost is (hopefully) being re-groomed as a defender at vfl level...

 

B: Wagner - Dunn - Lumumba 

HB: Salem - T McDonald - Vince

C: Stretch - N Jones - Bugg

HF: Petracca - Watts - Kennedy

F: Kent - Hogan - Garlett

Foll: Gawn - Tyson - Viney

I/c: Oliver - ANB - Spencer - Harmes

Interesting.  I'm not sure that I agree with all of those changes, but the side you propose doesn't look a bad fit at all.  Brisbane's strength is their fast attacking mids and half forwards, so we wouldn't feel the lack of talls.  I'd probably keep Hunt in the side, but who knows?  Lamumba has attacking runs too. 

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Newton with 32 disposals and 18 tackles surely has to come under serious consideration?

I personally would've thought so. The issue is who n the midfield does he replace? We have elite youngsters who need game time, and the leftovers are Vince, Jones and Viney.

I'd almost be inclined to send Jones to halfback for a quarter or two and let Newton have a proper run through the middle. Don't bring him in just to play as a goal sneak. It isn't doing him any justice. It seems unlikely as they are blooding them in specific roles at Casey such as Grimss being shuffled around. 

H to replace Jetta in the backline.

Pederson to replace Garland in the backline.

Newton to replace Pederson in the forward line

ANB to replace michie on the bench.

  

Don't get all the Garland Bashing.. was he that bad?? maybe I am just not focusing on his efforts or errors but he has always seemed one of the more reliable few down there... I have a problem with Tom Mcdonalds 2nd efforts.. noticed how slow he is turning once the ball hits the ground.. his lateral movement agility is horrid, but he is still good in the air one on one but does need to improve those 2nd efforts... Dunn still should be in team, he's hard and a great user of the ball and I feel more confident about things when he's in... gives us a bit of aggro and spunk down back too... probably ahead of Garland for that "vibe" type reason.

would like to see Weideman, Dunn,Trengove, Lumumba, Neal Bullen in this week but there wont be 5 outs no way.

 

8 hours ago, ignition. said:

Michie surely needs to be dropped. Had very little impact, and for a bloke of his size no tackles and two contested possession simply isn't good enough.

Also thought he had little impact in our win against the Suns.

Hopefully Kent is ok and ready to return, also think ANB has well and truly earnt his spot.

Drop michie... He isn't close to being in the best 22 and isn't the future of the club. 

Still undecided re Wagner. Has brain fades at times. Hope it's just inexperience and nerves.

H for Jetta 

trengove for michie 

ANB for Wagner 

dunn for garland if Roos wants to send a message

10 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Six players up for consideration with only one certain inclusion IMO.

The one certain in, subject to him passing concussion tests, is Lumumba and with Jetta out, there's a direct spot for him.

The other five that will get some love at selection meeting, although all could miss out again are:

Three midfielders

1) Grimes - the 23rd man three times now, one of the fittest blokes pre-season behind only Viney and T-Mac, and clearly the hardest done by this season - but that makes no difference I know. Would most likely play on a wing and with Billy one of our best, it would require a decision to rest Harmes for it to happen. Can't see it happening.

2) Neal-Bullen - Has been clocking up high-disposal numbers each week and is now getting close to Tom Mitchell's stats from Sydney reserves two years ago. The problem is he has to win a spot in the middle of the park, so unless they want to do the dirty on Oliver, it ain't going to happen this week.

3) Newton - Two huge weeks, including his 18 tackle game last week when he played more inside than on the wing. I reckon he's behind the other two in the queue, so unless we are making an example of a few, then he won't play. Based on rotating our 23rd man, I reckon he's a huge chance to miss the Box Hill Saturday night clash.

Two defenders

1) Lynden Dunn - Has been a class above in the VFL the past two weeks, but will they go back to him given they blamed him for the zone failure against the Saints? The fact that the zone failed so dismally in the first term v the Dogs probably shows it wasn't completely his fault v the Saints. So will his superior foot skills win against the greater speed of Garland?

2) Oscar McDonald - Taller, younger, quicker than Dunn, but quite clearly not as smart (with tunnelling) or clean with the ball in hand. Quite obviously they are keen to give him a go and his extra height against Josh Schache might be the factor that gets him in ahead of Col. But personally I wouldn't do it yet.

The good thing is that the game v Box Hill is a night game and will be a high level - so a good showing there will count more down the track.

So I'm tipping just the one out Jetta, and just the one in with Lumumba.

 

I find this to be a very good and concise post.

Would like to see Dunn in for the same reason as many often give: experience and come-uppance. Didn't think Garland was as terrible as others do, but if we're going to have a NQR older backman then it should be Dunn as he has more presence and a great Torp. That being said, I do wish Garland could rediscover his 2013 form. He seemed to be on an upward trajectory. Or was it just that we were so [censored]-poor he simply stood out by being as average as he is now?

 

Edit: didn't like the look of original post upon reflection.

9 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

Out: Jetta, Garland, Pedersen, Hunt, Michie

In: Lumumba, Dunn, Spencer, ANB, Kent

 

Yup...Spencer! Gawn needs a chop out, they can both go forward, both are athletic, and I just remember the game against the Cats where it worked so well. At the moment Pedo is not working hard enough and Frost is (hopefully) being re-groomed as a defender at vfl level...

 

B: Wagner - Dunn - Lumumba 

HB: Salem - T McDonald - Vince

C: Stretch - N Jones - Bugg

HF: Petracca - Watts - Kennedy

F: Kent - Hogan - Garlett

Foll: Gawn - Tyson - Viney

I/c: Oliver - ANB - Spencer - Harmes

These threads are always interesting. Some try to post what they would do with solid reasoning, some try to predict what will actually happen even if it isn't what they would do, and others just post outright fantasy. Five changes - as if.

7 hours ago, demon_fanatic said:

Don't get all the Garland Bashing.. was he that bad?? 

On Sunday he was. 

He played some pretty dumb football.

29 minutes ago, Nasher said:

These threads are always interesting. Some try to post what they would do with solid reasoning, some try to predict what will actually happen even if it isn't what they would do, and others just post outright fantasy. Five changes - as if.

Surely with outright fantasy you'd choose a stronger side. Robbie Flower would be my first picked, followed by a pre injury Ox. but Stan Alves, hardeman, G Healy and Wells would all get a run. As would Hogan, the two Vineys Wattsy, Gawn and hogan. Oh i'd chuck RDB in there as well and for fun i'd have Lawrie Fowler and maybe even Mark Jackson. 

10 minutes ago, binman said:

Surely with outright fantasy you'd choose a stronger side. Robbie Flower would be my first picked, followed by a pre injury Ox. but Stan Alves, hardeman, G Healy and Wells would all get a run. As would Hogan, the two Vineys Wattsy, Gawn and hogan. Oh i'd chuck RDB in there as well and for fun i'd have Lawrie Fowler and maybe even Mark Jackson. 

No way I would pick Hogan in front of Neitz, Jackovich, Greg Parke, Gary Lyon and as you suggest even Mark Jackson

Hogan can start on this bench. No way he's taking a spot on the ground ahead of Fred Fanning, Jakovich, Schwarz (not Ox), Lyon and Farmer.

13 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

Hogan can start on this bench. No way he's taking a spot on the ground ahead of Fred Fanning, Jakovich, Schwarz (not Ox), Lyon and Farmer.

How could I forget Fred, 18 goals 1 point in his last match, should have dragged him for that point, hope it wasn't his first kick.

11 hours ago, bandicoot said:

Drop michie... He isn't close to being in the best 22 and isn't the future of the club. 

Still undecided re Wagner. Has brain fades at times. Hope it's just inexperience and nerves.

H for Jetta 

trengove for michie 

ANB for Wagner 

dunn for garland if Roos wants to send a message

Don't get the posters on here wanting to drop Michie. He was clearly our 2nd best defender. So he did not get much in the way of tackles or contested possessions. One of our problems is the number of times we had 2 or 3 players attacking the ball, creating a contest between themselves and having no outlet. Watch the Dogs attack a contest. They had 1 player in the contest and 2 or 3 on the periphery to get the quick throw. I think this is the role Viv was tasked with this week (and last) He has quick hands, is a decent and accurate kick and has composure. Watch the bit of play in the 3rd quarter (at the end) under significant pressure but kept his head, weighed up two options and delivered. His only blemish on the weekend was a kick to Watts when in my (armchair) opinion there was a better option. His kicking was penetrating and accurate and he had 6 intercept marks. I would be surprised if he gets dropped this week. For those of you old enough to remember him Craig Bradley played a similar role. I used to refer to him as a sheep dog just hanging around the packs. But he was a terrific link man who moved the ball on to the running players. Every team needs them (no I am not saying Viv is as good as Braddles).  This is the 4th time he has played in defence in my time watching his career and I think he is getting better. The commentators (Hodge I think) even said he had been good off the HBF. 

And before I get smashed in replies yes I am a big fan of Viv's. I think he has become a whipping boy on this site. Plenty of excuses found for others who turn it over heaps but praised for one bit of good play. I personally do not like potting players as they are doing something I failed at many (many) years ago.  Smash away.

Viv was good. Smart ball use and intercept marking as mentioned above. With Jetta out, he stays for mine. 

14 minutes ago, Samael said:

Don't get the posters on here wanting to drop Michie. He was clearly our 2nd best defender. So he did not get much in the way of tackles or contested possessions.

0 tackles. 2 contested possessions.

Yeah I guess you could call that "not getting much".....

 

Zero change Garland is dropped with Jetta out.

14 hours ago, P-man said:

I personally would've thought so. The issue is who n the midfield does he replace? We have elite youngsters who need game time, and the leftovers are Vince, Jones and Viney.

I'd almost be inclined to send Jones to halfback for a quarter or two and let Newton have a proper run through the middle. Don't bring him in just to play as a goal sneak. It isn't doing him any justice. It seems unlikely as they are blooding them in specific roles at Casey such as Grimss being shuffled around. 

I'd replace Bugg for Newton. Newton's disposal is elite compared to Bugg.

2 minutes ago, mo64 said:

I'd replace Bugg for Newton. Newton's disposal is elite compared to Bugg.

I am not suggesting dropping Bugg - but if we are pointing at Bugg's 9 tackles then you can point to Newtons 18 tackles for Casey on the weekend !

I would counsel that the Match Committee deliberations might be a tad broader in focus than what's playing out on here.  It's a 6 day turnaround to the Port game after the Lions and a reasonably lengthy road trip with a high probability of the match being played in warm conditions.  Casey have a bye that weekend as well.  It is then a seven day turnaround to Hawthorn at the G.   All of this has implications for the number of changes for this week and the personnel involved.  

32 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I am not suggesting dropping Bugg - but if we are pointing at Bugg's 9 tackles then you can point to Newtons 18 tackles for Casey on the weekend !

Newton was playing Sandy and Bugg was playing a team which is in the best two or three in the AFL.

A substantial difference I would suggest.

IMHO Newton is like Michie both are Good at VFL level but struggle at the top.

Neither would get a game at the top six clubs.

23 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I doubt there will be that many changes.  I very much doubt that Hunt, Wagner or Harmes will be dropped unless they are "managed".  We are trying to build a defence that understands the new game plan and understands each other.  Yesterday we played a better team that found us out and this week we come up against a team that allows us to continue the education in a less difficult environment.

If players are going to be dropped I think it will be the experienced players who are fringe.  Garland, Michie, Bugg and Pedersen perhaps.  I think that given Gawn looks exhaused it's quite possible Spencer comes in. For all Roos said Oscar McDonald was underdone I've seen him from Essendon on and he's looking good to me.

I'm also not sold on Bugg.  He's a bit of a flat track bully for mine and he struggles to produce good performances against good teams.  He is hard but he rarely hurts the opposition and often mucks it up. And being hard shouldn't get you in the team, it should be mandatory for his type of player.  I think he'll let you down (skill wise) when it matters and the last 20 seconds of the game against NM is an example.  The kick to Stretch wasn't difficult.

To some degree the FD need to decide what the footy team looks like going forward and keep to that team primarily.  Next year when we play I want Harmes, Hunt, Wagner, Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, Stretch, Hogan, Brayshaw, AVB and Salem to have as much experience as possible so they get some slack.  ANB and Trengove also need to be given a good run at it to see where they fit.

I've also seen Weideman and Hulett.  Neither are ready IMO but Hulett would be in front of the Weed for mine.

Also I'm a big fan of Jack Grimes but I just can't see the point of giving him games when his papers are so obviously marked. Dunn and Garland seem to be in the same boat and Garland's contract extension now looks wrong.

For all I want to win this year is really about next year.

Too true that we were actually beaten by a better and more experienced (playing together) side - no disgrace in that.

I doubt if Spencer is ready yet for an AFL game though hopefully with a couple more at Casey he will.

Any chance that Huelett could get a run?

16 hours ago, Adzman said:

Jetta is out for one week, and Bernie is all good. I think 3 changes:

Out: Jetta, Garland, Michie

In: Nibbler, H, Trenners

You could build a case to drop 6 after last week, i just don't think it will happen. Nibbler and Trenners have been very consistent in the twos.

 

I would prefer OMcD to H - needs games under his belt, and is possibly part of our future.  H isn't.

13 hours ago, demon_fanatic said:

Don't get all the Garland Bashing.. was he that bad??

Probably not, the issue for me is he isn't a key defender but he is being forced to play that role.

Realistically he should be competing with Grimes, Lumumba, Hunt, Wagner, Salem, Jetta and Michie in a small defender role.

I wouldn't mind if Spencer was an inclusion this week. Although he may still be a little underdone, he and Gawn could really stretch the Lion defence when they rest forward.

Jetta out is huge blow for defence and I'm not sure if we have a ready to go replacement for him. Saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if Grimes is finally given a run. ANB will certainly be considered but unless he can play as a lockdown defender, I'm not sure if there's a place in the team for him at the moment.