Changes v St Kilda

[Gator 16,918]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

You're free to point out where I said we lost because Frost didn't play, or we lost even though the midfield was good, however if you want to use actual evidence of how the team has performed, then we've played better when Frost (and Pedersen) have been part of the structure, it's an actual fact, and as someone who prefers stats rather than watching the game I thought you would be able to grasp that by yourself, evidently I have to hold your hand and lead you down the path.

So to summarize for you, to save you the effort of having to post twice before comprehending once more, you stated dropping Frost would make us a better team, however the evidence does not support you on that, and clearly neither does our coach.

 

Too late, Chuckles. 

I've already said in the post you responded to that the coaches may prefer the structure with Frost in the team. 

Me ?  Not so much.  Frost is not a pivotal player in the forward-line and can be displaced by Petracca.

[What 18,810]

7 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Getting in the finals, as glamorous as that is - is just a pass mark for the season with 8 teams making the finals.

 

9 minutes ago, sue said:

Yes, but don't forget with the over-sized (in my opinion) final 8, a mid-range team  is the definition of a team that just qualifies for the finals.

 

18 team comp, and  8 teams make the Finals.

That is the right number.  

 

[Gator 16,918]

32 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

Dropped briefly into training session this morning. Very light workout, mostly goal kicking practice, in very blustery conditions. 

One thing to report. Dunn was training with the injury group made up of himself, Trenners, Spencer and Dawes, mostly handball practice. Is there anything anyone knows about this. It is the first time I have heard of a question mark over him. Also wondered why Trenners was there given his game at Casey over the weekend.

If he were to be out, who would replace him? Garland is in very ordinary form, and Oscar Mac has only recently returned from injury, although was in the full training session today. We need two talls to cover McCartin and Reiwolt. Maybe we need to put either Frost or Pederson back there. 

Thoughts?

Those players are no longer injured, so, as mentioned by another payer, he'll just be on light duties. 

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Too late, Chuckles. 

I've already said in the post you responded to that the coaches may prefer the structure with Frost in the team. 

Me ?  Not so much.  Frost is not a pivotal player in the forward-line and can be displaced by Petracca.

Yep, the coaches DO prefer him in. You don't. Hmmmm.....

Frost and Petracca are very different players, I'm not sure why you think having one in automatically displaces the other.

[Redleg 37,930]

1 hour ago, CityDee said:

Injury timeframes to be confirmed but all copped serious injuries at the weekend nick an ankle roberton a knee joey a bad hammy 

They described Joey's " bad hammy" as just "tightening". If true, that is not a bad hammy. Roo played on, so how serious was that? 

Not saying they won't miss, only looking at the description you used, of "serious".

[Gator 16,918]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yep, the coaches DO prefer him in. You don't. Hmmmm.....

Frost and Petracca are very different players, I'm not sure why you think having one in automatically displaces the other.

Because Petracca is ready to go, Frost doesn't play tall (I prefer him as a back) and someone needs to make way. 

If they make Petracca wait another week so be it, but Frost, who doesn't hit the scoreboard, is an obvious candidate to make way.  I'd keep Pedersen, because he's better in the ruck and is more beneficial taking the heat off Hogan from a contested marking point of view.

Speaking of hitting the scoreboard, I see Wattsy is doing what I said needed to be done.  From memory you poured cold water over my suggestion he needed to kick 40 goals.  How's he tracking ?

[Moneider96 1,045]

Not worthy of its own thread, but Cale hooker has resigned with Essendon for 5 years. Will make Freo an even more unattractive team to Hogan, you would think. 

[Fat Tony 4,480]

3 minutes ago, Moneider96 said:

Not worthy of its own thread, but Cale hooker has resigned with Essendon for 5 years. Will make Freo an even more unattractive team to Hogan, you would think. 

Gives Freo salary cap space though. I actually think it would have been better for us if he went. We don't have a first round pick either.

[Cards13 9,117]

17 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Saints are quick but their skills are down.

From an article someone posted last week they are one of the worst teams in the AFL for turn overs per game and one of the worst for being scored against on those turn overs. Here is hoping our pressure acts are up and continue that trend, especially with turn overs in our fwd half.

[stuie 7,374]

4 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Because Petracca is ready to go, Frost doesn't play tall (I prefer him as a back) and someone needs to make way. 

If they make Petracca wait another week so be it, but Frost, who doesn't hit the scoreboard, is an obvious candidate to make way.  I'd keep Pedersen, because he's better in the ruck and is more beneficial taking the heat off Hogan from a contested marking point of view.

Speaking of hitting the scoreboard, I see Wattsy is doing what I said needed to be done.  From memory you poured cold water over my suggestion he needed to kick 40 goals.  How's he tracking ?

I think Petracca will come in and I think a tall will come out seeing it's Etihad, however I don't believe it will be Frost due to his speed, but I agree Pedo is a better backup ruck, so we'll see what the match committee does.

Still don't think you quite grasp the fact that not every forward is there simply to kick goals and that's all, but even so Frost has scored more than Pedersen this year anyway.

For the record (which incidentally is there in my posts) I poured cold water on your suggestion that kicking 40 goals is the only measure of Watts' success this year. Do you rate his intent better? His marking? His general play? Pretty obviously they have all improved, and anyone actually going to or watching games would notice that. But still, if he continues this form but only kicks 39 goals then apparently his year is a failure according to you.

Oh and secondly to that, you were going on about what a dud Watts is, so you tell me, how is he tracking?

 

[Binmans PA 26,378]

3 hours ago, Peter Griffen said:

Gus will be fine  even now you can see with some of his touches the class is still there.

just needs some time to find his feet again and maybe a move further up the ground

I think I'm more frustrated by the fact that he's still clearly got class written all over him, but he doesn't get it enough. Even when he's involved in midfield rotations. But it's still early days and the point of him playing on the HFF is valid. 

[Gator 16,918]

17 minutes ago, stuie said:

I think Petracca will come in and I think a tall will come out seeing it's Etihad, however I don't believe it will be Frost due to his speed, but I agree Pedo is a better backup ruck, so we'll see what the match committee does.

Still don't think you quite grasp the fact that not every forward is there simply to kick goals and that's all, but even so Frost has scored more than Pedersen this year anyway.

For the record (which incidentally is there in my posts) I poured cold water on your suggestion that kicking 40 goals is the only measure of Watts' success this year. Do you rate his intent better? His marking? His general play? Pretty obviously they have all improved, and anyone actually going to or watching games would notice that. But still, if he continues this form but only kicks 39 goals then apparently his year is a failure according to you.

Oh and secondly to that, you were going on about what a dud Watts is, so you tell me, how is he tracking?

 

Watts has been a dud in every year he's played, until this year. 

There's a reason he was shopped around last year for around pick 25 and there's a reason there were no takers. 

Finally, he's improved his contested ball significantly and he's hitting the scoreboard.  He's finally doing what I've called for for years. 

You and others have been happy for him to chug along without impacting games of footy.  I wasn't and have been vindicated by his improved play.  Only taken his 8th year. 

I never said forwards only have to hit the scoreboard, but if you're averaging 10 disposals a game 2 goals for the year ain't enough. Which is why I'd bring in Petracca for Frost.

And yes, with Watts' talent he had to kick goals as a permanent forward.  He's doing what he had to and we're benefiting as a result. 

[Cards13 9,117]

3 hours ago, GawnWithTheWind said:

Viney has mentioned the 'F' word in his presser this morning. You'd hope the group has learnt from round 2, and not get ahead of themselves. If not, we could get spanked this week.

We are still a mid-range team, lets not forget that.

Oh fark! (Not being serious)

Edited April 27, 2016 by Cards13

[Slartibartfast 15,940]

7 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Watts has been a dud in every year he's played, until this year. 

You and others have been happy for him to chug along without impacting games of footy.  I wasn't and have been vindicated by his improved play.  Only taken his 8th year. 

I don't think too many would have argued Watts has paid his way until this year and this year has only just begun.  I think many, like me, could see what he could be and wanted to hold him in the hope he'd succeed.  It's taken some proper development coaching but it seems to be paying dividends.  I think there may be some clubs around lamenting they didn't offer that pick 25.

 

[CityDee 738]

53 minutes ago, Redleg said:

They described Joey's " bad hammy" as just "tightening". If true, that is not a bad hammy. Roo played on, so how serious was that? 

Not saying they won't miss, only looking at the description you used, of "serious".

Serious enough to take no futher part in the game they are all tbc so I could be wrong but I think they will miss and if they play well hopefully unfit . 

[stuie 7,374]

13 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Watts has been a dud in every year he's played, until this year. 

There's a reason he was shopped around last year for around pick 25 and there's a reason there were no takers. 

Finally, he's improved his contested ball significantly and he's hitting the scoreboard.  He's finally doing what I've called for for years. 

You and others have been happy for him to chug along without impacting games of footy.  I wasn't and have been vindicated by his improved play.  Only taken his 8th year. 

I never said forwards only have to hit the scoreboard, but if you're averaging 10 disposals a game 2 goals for the year ain't enough. Which is why I'd bring in Petracca for Frost.

And yes, with Watts' talent he had to kick goals as a permanent forward.  He's doing what he had to and we're benefiting as a result. 

Who said I've been happy for him to chug along? I've said all along he needed to improve, but I don't take as much of a simplistic approach as your "me forward, me kick goals" one.

How exactly are you vindicated by him improving when you wanted him traded? Pretty sure that's actually the opposite and he's proven you completely wrong.

But still, should he only kick 39 goals, I guess you'll call for him to be traded again no matter what.

 

[Deeoldfart 7,809]

3 hours ago, GawnWithTheWind said:

Viney has mentioned the 'F' word in his presser this morning. You'd hope the group has learnt from round 2, and not get ahead of themselves. If not, we could get spanked this week.

We are still a mid-range team, lets not forget that.

....... and what an outstanding presser it was: Media conference: Jack Viney

Jack is so composed and well considered in everything he says.  He's growing enormously as both a footballer and a leader.  His maturity belies his age and experience.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Deeoldfart
Punctuation

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,370]

No way will Riewoldt miss.

St Kilda know that he's the main reason they have a 12 game winning streak over us, and will take the risk accordingly.

and his injury can't be too bad considering he played out the game.

Montagna, I can see him possibly missing a week if he's got a hammy issue (hamstring awareness is the trendy term these days) given the short week.

[Gator 16,918]

42 minutes ago, stuie said:

Who said I've been happy for him to chug along? I've said all along he needed to improve, but I don't take as much of a simplistic approach as your "me forward, me kick goals" one.

How exactly are you vindicated by him improving when you wanted him traded? Pretty sure that's actually the opposite and he's proven you completely wrong.

But still, should he only kick 39 goals, I guess you'll call for him to be traded again no matter what.

 

There's a difference between trading and delisting.  The club and I both would have traded him for the right offer.  You do realise that both parties (clubs) have to be happy in a trade ?

Finally, thankfully, he's playing an important role that benefits the club.  That he's doing what I've been calling for doesn't make me "wrong".  It vindicates what I've been suggesting was required and is a minimum output (for me).  

Some of you glad handlers are far too easily pleased. 

 

 

[GawnWithTheWind 604]

45 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

No way will Riewoldt miss.

St Kilda know that he's the main reason they have a 12 game winning streak over us, and will take the risk accordingly.

and his injury can't be too bad considering he played out the game.

Montagna, I can see him possibly missing a week if he's got a hammy issue (hamstring awareness is the trendy term these days) given the short week.

Depends on how it recovers. Pain killers can get him through the game, but if the swelling is still there then he may not have movement in it.

Fingers crossed they both miss.

[nutbean 8,837]

I have never understood the idea of a "defensive forward". You want all your forwards to be defensive but you want them to be offensive as well. The best to stop Shaw of the GWS running off and causing havoc is to kick a couple of goals on him - that makes him more accountable. 

On that score I would bring in Petracca at the expense of Frost - Frost has been building and is doing a few nice things but still doesn't impact enough. If you want someone to give a good contest in the forward line I still would go with Pedersen as he will clunk more marks. Then you bring in  Petracca who ( based purely on his resume) can play big and small and is a natural forward. Watts a lock, Hogan a lock, Kent a lock, Gartlett a lock  , we then rotate a mid through the half forward flank  - that really leaves two more spots with 3 players competing for them   - Frost, Pedersen and Petracca - I think the choice is pretty simple and until Frost impacts more games he is the one i would leave out.

Edited April 27, 2016 by nutbean

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

2 hours ago, Cards13 said:

From an article someone posted last week they are one of the worst teams in the AFL for turn overs per game and one of the worst for being scored against on those turn overs. Here is hoping our pressure acts are up and continue that trend, especially with turn overs in our fwd half.

I can see Kent kicking a bag! 

[nutbean 8,837]

24 minutes ago, Jesse Christ said:

I can see Kent kicking a bag! 

I am very happy with no one kicking bags. It gives the opposition coaches more headaches if we keep on doing what we are doing.

Sit on Jeffy and Kent kicks 3 or 4. Put your best on Hogan and Watts kicks 3. Keep Watts and Hogan under wraps and Gawny floats down and kicks a couple or Pedersen kicks a couple as he did against Collingwood. Kennedy was quite but if you look at the possessions he did have  - they were involved in goal scoring chains.

Then we have our mid kicking goals - Tyson, Bernie and Oliver who has .

A good spread of goal kickers works for me.

( just did a back of the envelope gathering of data - last year our mids kicked 43 goals. This season 5 games in they have already kicked 23 goals. - mids kicking goals is verrrrry healthy)

[juzzk1d 1,354]

After watching the replay, I thought Salem was brilliant in close. He always managed to fire out a clean handball through traffic to release a player and allowed us to get going. 

[armstrong35 262]

In: Petracca and Oliver

Out: Brayshaw and Frost

With Frost it's a hard one. it all depends on the height of the Saints defenders?
If they're a little smaller than maybe cause them a few headaches and if they're taller then obviously we need the height..
But, if they're small then it's a good opportunity for Petracca to come in and play