Open Andy: Meeting With Goodwin

[Slartibartfast 16,963]

Did Goodwin know that what he said was going to be posted on Big Footy and beyond?

[Ethan Tremblay 30,437]

1 minute ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Did Goodwin know that what he said was going to be posted on Big Footy and beyond?

I'll pager him and find out.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Ethan Tremblay

[Chris 2,892]

8 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Did Goodwin know that what he said was going to be posted on Big Footy and beyond?

I did wonder that, especially the comments around Watts. 

[Daily Dose of Demons 155]

16 minutes ago, Chris said:

I did wonder that, especially the comments around Watts. 

I thought I read the whole thing what were the comments around Watts? 

[Grapeviney 9,591]

2 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Did Goodwin know that what he said was going to be posted on Big Footy and beyond?

I'd say he didn't, but it was poor judgement in my opinion to reveal what he did about Watts regardless. 

Why would a coach ever talk about a player's weakness or fragility to anyone outside the club?

The poster has no obligation to keep it secret unless specifically asked to, but I think he also exercised poor judgement in making it public. 

 

[dazzledavey36 53,377]

If Saty can get away with it every week im sure Andy will be fine.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, dazzledavey36 said:

If Saty can get away with it every week im sure Andy will be fine.

True, although Andy shied away from the tough questions about Arsenal and never asked Goodwin about his 'guns'.  Poor form Andy!

[Chris 2,892]

1 hour ago, Daily Dose of Demons said:

I thought I read the whole thing what were the comments around Watts? 

It was about him needing constant praise due to damage done in the past ruining his self belief. 

[Yossarian 1,820]

No way I'd throw a private conversation onto a public forum. Such a d**k move.

[Adam The God 29,679]

18 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

lol at mentions on OMac being elite after 80 games. Just cos he's related to TMac doesn't mean he'll be there. DOn't get me wrong, I'm fond of the kid, but there's nothing in his footy so far to suggest he'll be elite after 80. For mine it's the obvious ones, Hogan, Salem, Petracca, Brayshaw, Gawn, Oliver, Weideman... I see 7/8 so far.

Viney is the 8th, is probably already there now, will be captain, and I think will confuse people, because nothing about him is elite. Not size, pace or disposal. The elite thing is his production. I don't see him getting worse as a player than what we've seen this year, until he declines in his old age. We'll see 8 years now of footy basically like this, or close to it more often than not. Sam Mitchell style. That's Elite to me.

Jetta - Probably just off elite. Opposition clubs will respect him, but he doesn't scare anyone.

Harmes - All I can say about him is ???. Sometimes he looks VFL. Sometimes he looks like Stevie J in red and blue. The times he vanishes are starting to evaporate, and he's now looking dangerous more and more often. Could potentially get to elite, but I feel like only in late twenties, and only for a few years.

Kennedy - I don't agree with everyone on him. Don't get me wrong, love his work, will be awesome. But we're seeing his ceiling now. He's tiny and zippy, but rather more outside than the Oliver/Viney/Jones types... I think of him as a poor man's Prestia. He will excel more than anyone (outside of Watts) in the hard-ball winning demons. Zippy outside players will want to come to demons over the next 3-5 years, you watch. We will make them All Australians.

VDB - Not elite. Very good. Not elite. I reckon he'll settle more as a leading forward who pressures, like Mayne. So his kicking will end up restricting him from the elite conversation. Love him, and will represent well for 150 games at least.

Trengove - Who the hell knows. If he gets any sort of pace back, there's no reason he can't be. Has basically no faults in his game aside from the pace problem. I'm hoping he can become our Simon Black, in which case, Elite certainly... But I prefer to have no expectation with him. In all honesty I think as Vince and Jones age, they'll be hoping he can step in.

Tyson - Disposal the only thing holding him back from Elite. Right on the cusp, but not there yet. He's on 54 games and is only 22. Will he improve? I'm thinking we're seeing near to his best already, and it's pretty damn good. But a top 40 player in the league? I'm thinking no. Still hugely important though.

TMac - I couldn't decide on him. He's only 23 and is key position. Has already played his 80+ games. I think in the end of his career he'll be so wily, as he is already, and his disposal won't improve, but his decision making will. I would say that no, he won't be elite... but KP defenders rarely get the press. He'll be in the top handful of his position his whole career, but will never take the Rance/Gibson/Hurley? mantle.

 

Gee it's fun being able to read about the list with high hopes again. I said it at the end of the year, this will be one of the most fondly remembered seasons of my life. When we all had zero expectations, but still won our fair share.

You 'lol' at Omac being one of the 13 players they hope will reach elite status, Dan, but then you don't name 13 yourself. Bit of a cop out. Still, I agree. Omac probably isn't one of them.

[Ted Lasso 18,914]

On 4/21/2016 at 0:23 AM, AdamFarr said:

You 'lol' at Omac being one of the 13 players they hope will reach elite status, Dan, but then you don't name 13 yourself. Bit of a cop out. Still, I agree. Omac probably isn't one of them.

OMac is rated extremely highly within the club, I spoke to Macca at training a few weeks ago and asked how he thought Oscar was going and he said he's able to compete now but still probably one big pre season away from really being consistently AFL standard as a key defender, but the club rates him extremely highly, think he'll be a key part of our backline for the next decade with his brother, based on that conversation i'd be surprised if he wasn't in the 13, though who knows i think there are more than 13 really good prospects coming through the club right now.

In the same conversation i asked who he rates higher of Petracca and Hogan, he just said they're both going to be extremely exciting for the Melbourne footy club for a long time.

[Daily Dose of Demons 155]

5 hours ago, Chris said:

It was about him needing constant praise due to damage done in the past ruining his self belief. 

 

1 hour ago, Jesus Hoganshaw said:

No way I'd throw a private conversation onto a public forum. Such a d**k move.

Thanks for the clarification.

I agree, I reckon Goodwin would've thought what he was sharing would've remained private given how much he said and what he talked about. The poster could've posted specific things that people would be interested about, that were not harmful to anyone. So rude to post everthing. 

[SaberFang 7,151]

I didn't like the Watts part being shared, that felt really inappropriate after a private conversation. Just imagine if JW got told by a friend that his future coach had shared information like that with a total stranger? 

Really not on.

[deespicable me 1,472]

Not many are rated elite until we get into the top four and then all of a sudden the Denham's of the world reckon they're all elite. I agree we've got a fantastic list developing nicely, but there's a lot can go wrong. We are yet to do it.

Goodwin is a young coach being protected by our godfather Roos. I hope we don't miss him too much, Roosy. He's looking borderline genius if it all rolls out like he has planned it.

[Akum 2,660]

7 hours ago, Chris said:

It was about him needing constant praise due to damage done in the past ruining his self belief. 

With respect, I think the phrases "needing constant praise" and "ruining his self-belief" are a bit too tabloid.

I'd say it's more that he needs constant feedback that he's doing what the coaches want him to do. And that if they're not happy about any part of his game, that they let him know one-to-one and are prepared to discuss what to do about it. 

I think it dovetails with what Roos said after the Norf game about many players individually & collectively responding better to an "educational" approach than to being revved up or bawled out.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

On 4/20/2016 at 7:41 AM, Stretch Johnson said:

Harmes is an interesting one.

I see him as a player that flies under the radar a little bit, but one that has attributes that might see him become better than decent.

Very good hands, strong bodied, hard, and shows the ability to make good decisions quickly and execute.  Now he doesn't do all of these things all of the time, the fact that he has shown that he can do them sometimes indicates that his ceiling may be higher than some.

 

 

Pretty much exactly what I was trying to say. Some players hit the pitch and you just know they have the courage and willingness to compete. I think of Max and Viney. Their first few possessions, I knew they'd take time, but would get there. I see Harmes as a fairly flashy player. Little bit of Robbo in him. But the second and third efforts and consistency haven't materialised yet. As you say though, when they do, he could be a seriously important footballer. And not just at MFC, I mean AFL wide. We need a Chapman style player one day. A guy who doesn't get the press but on his day can be just as scary as the blue-chip guys like Brayshaw and Tracca. I think of VDB and Harmes, they're not Chapman level. But with Harmes, I just can't pin him down. I think we'll see him kick 6 goals in a game more than once. 

 

8 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

You 'lol' at Omac being one of the 13 players they hope will reach elite status, Dan, but then you don't name 13 yourself. Bit of a cop out. Still, I agree. Omac probably isn't one of them.

 

I think my point was that I don't think we have 13. I'm taking a very harsh view of it though. I remember watching guys like Wheatley, Whelan, Ward, Rigoni, Moloney... All respected and all best 22 for a number of years. Probably all were headhunted at various times by other clubs looking for their stronger attributes, like Wheatley's kick or Ward's pace. But they didn't really scare anyone (Whelan possible exception). They were quality AFL footballers, 150 gamers. But they weren't elite. I see a number of guys on the list as being that. And that's FINE. A team can't be 22 elite guys. Not even Hawks are that. The term elite... it's a bit ambiguous, cos we're talking potential (someone like Weideman, or Tracca) and we're talking about exhibited form, like someone like Brayshaw or Oliver who within a game or two, everyone knew would be elite. Just a matter of time.

At the end of the day, I resist as much as possible the masturbatory aspect of being a demons supporter. If we say VDB is elite, and OMac is elite, then more power to you. This is our forum. Public opinion be damned. What I think is really impressive though, is a player who is feared by the other 17 clubs' supporters. That gets my attention. OMac and VDB need a few more seasons of JPod style, come out of nowhere and dominate, style footy to actually get me interested. 

I should also say I counted only the under 80 gamers above. I absolutely count Jones and Vince as elite. I reckon Garlett would have a serious case. But I struggle to slot their names in because in 3 years (when the bulk of these "potential" stars have cracked 80 games) they'll presumably be declining somewhat. 

 

8 hours ago, Peter Griffen said:

OMac is rated extremely highly within the club,

 

Interesting. I'll be holding my position on OMac til I see some food on my plate. It should be said that I didn't quite get the TMac thing until late in the piece. I remember seeing him play on after intercept marks very early on, and I remember him racking up 10 possession quarters, having read that his engine is massive. But I thought his deficiencies would cut him down in the end. I was wrong on him. I also didn't see the Wagner hype until last weekend where it was in full display. So as always, happy to be proven wrong.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Dappa Dan

[Skuit 10,004]

What are the opposition going to do? Tell Watts he's terrible and suddenly undermine all our hard work on the track building his self-esteem?

[Chris 2,892]

6 hours ago, Akum said:

With respect, I think the phrases "needing constant praise" and "ruining his self-belief" are a bit too tabloid.

I'd say it's more that he needs constant feedback that he's doing what the coaches want him to do. And that if they're not happy about any part of his game, that they let him know one-to-one and are prepared to discuss what to do about it. 

I think it dovetails with what Roos said after the Norf game about many players individually & collectively responding better to an "educational" approach than to being revved up or bawled out.

Have a read of the comments and you will see what I mean. I won't post it here as I don't think it should have been posted at all. 

[Moonshadow 17,580]

8 hours ago, SaberFang said:

I didn't like the Watts part being shared, that felt really inappropriate after a private conversation. Just imagine if JW got told by a friend that his future coach had shared information like that with a total stranger? 

Really not on.

Possibly, but it's worth remembering that the info comes 3rd hand, so it's hard to assess the accuracy of what Goodwin supposedly said. 

[nutbean 8,838]

8 hours ago, Daily Dose of Demons said:

I agree, I reckon Goodwin would've thought what he was sharing would've remained private given how much he said and what he talked about. The poster could've posted specific things that people would be interested about, that were not harmful to anyone. So rude to post everthing. 

So talking to supporters who he has never met before and then he revealed stuff that he thought would remain private ?

Irrespective of your thoughts on whether a poster should or shouldn't reveal stuff, a professional coach, especially a coach going through a specialised coaching program as Goodwin is would know that you open your mouth outside the match committee room, especially to a supporter, you take it as gospel it will be  in the public forum.  

[Skuit 10,004]

I also recall they said Goodwin was measured in his responses, even in an informal setting. I get the sense that Roos is generally directing his comments toward AFL House and the team in his interviews. Maybe Goody has learned a few tricks.

[Maldonboy38 6,387]

Elite refers to players who have skills and/or presence that can make or break a game. At the moment players like Robbie Gray, Aaron Hall, Lynch, Luke Palmer etc... Right now and on 2016 form, probably only Viney and Gawn would be mentioned next to this lot but are not genuinely elite.

However, we do have an emerging list of genuine A-graders:

• Viney
• Gawn
• Hogan
• Oliver

Possibly:

• TMac
• Petracca

And I can't wait to see Weideman.