POST MATCH DISCUSSION

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, jnrmac said:

Anyone have a link to a replay?

The replay should be up on the AFL website.

Edit - sorry jnr, didn't realise you need AFL live pass for that.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Wiseblood

[Slartibartfast 17,625]

4 hours ago, Biffen said:

Sandy has dimentia.

David King (scoop) thinks Goodwin might push Roos out of a job (no shyte Sherlock).

 My tinea is more informative than this trio of old tarts.

Then I suggest you listen to your tinea.  It must be difficult being so much smarter than everyone else.

I think the point King made re Goodwin and Roos is one of the more interesting issues facing the club in the immediate future. He knows Goodwin is taking over - der - he was asking when is the right time.

It's been well documented that Goodwin has driven preseason and Roos has taken a more back seat role.  Goodwin has also been given the senior coaching duties during the preseason cup and the performance of the team has exceeded external expectations.

The old saying of "don't fix it if it ain't broke" could be good advice for us now but the management of this is difficult.  Roos has been undeniably fantastic for this club IMO.  I've mates that question his motives but the results speak for themselves.  Our footy club looks like one now thanks mainly to Jackson but also significantly to Roos.  But what is clear over the Roos journey is his ego is evident and his image important to him.  He's made some terrible public utterances such as "sometimes the players just don't listen" and on 360 he was saved by Buckley on several occasions when the heat went on him personally.

I think the best thing for this club now is for Roos to hand over the senior coaching role to Goodwin- if not in name then in practice.  It will allow a consistent message and delivery to the players for the rest of the season and what is clear is the players are getting that message. But I also thing Roos ego won't allow that.  I think we'll see Roos as the senior coach in the box on game day and we'll see him address the player at game breaks.

But what a wonderful thing it would be if Roos said words to the effect that Goodwin has progressed much faster than could be anticipated and he thought it best he should remain in control of the playing group allowing Roos to concentrate on broader issues within the club. 

I've raised these question all through the off season but IMO this is Goodwin's team now.  He'll make selection decisions, game plan decisions and at season end list management decisions.  Let's hope Roos lets this natural progression continue and ego doesn't get in the way. If he could he'd stamp himself as a true leader.

[durango 2,023]

The link address is afl.com.au/video/2016-03-14/nab-demons-vs-saints-q1

 

[jnrmac 20,185]

5 minutes ago, durango said:

The link address is afl.com.au/video/2016-03-14/nab-demons-vs-saints-q1

 

Hmm thats not working. But thanks for trying..

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

1 hour ago, Ted Fidge said:

Great to see a very steady preseason with no blowouts, no real lapses, and plenty of players giving the selectors a round one headache.

Watts! He was more Riewoldt than Riewoldt. That was the most complete game he's played for us. Showed his class ... and grunt! He had the look, all day, of being the glue that held the side together. A taller Hodge?

Harmes has gone from being a raw young bloke who doesn't yet belong to being a young bloke who belongs in AFL.

Oliver is ready made.

Kent whether down back or up front looks so solid and reliable.

I don't get the knocks on Wagner or Oscar. They are inexperienced players who need experience. Given there's no home and away yet, where better than in a NAB cup game against real opposition?

Many of our regular suspects (Jones, Viney, Vince) were quiet but we didn't suffer for it. That is a very good sign.

Hoges' hands went on a wildcat strike ... he was double teamed at every opportunity but our forward line looked potent. How do you double team him and keep Pedo, Kennedy, Garlett quiet?

We now have so much talent and ability that all we have to do is stay focused and determined on field and we will win (more than) our fair share.

Easy Tiger...Have a lie down

we have to win games for points now...

[Demonland 73,140]

NOT THE REAL THING YET by The Oracle

Melbourne finished off this year’s NAB Challenge undefeated after a bright showing at its former nemesis Etihad Stadium and recorded its first win against St Kilda in the near ten years since it last played an AFL finals series.

The Demons again started slowly conceding easy goals to turnovers before picking up the tempo in the second term and outplaying the Saints for the rest of the match.

Despite Max Gawn's early ruck dominance, it was St Kilda that was winning the clearance battle in the early going with Melbourne conceding some soft goals but making up for it with positive movement forward. Jack Watts continued to shine in his half forward role keeping his team in the game at this stage. Tom McDonald was a rock in defence and he was finding his targets this week.

After the break, the Demon engine room, led by the skipper came to the fore and with him, Jack Viney, Dom Tyson and Bernie Vince lifted a notch while pre season revelation Clayton Oliver stepped in with two goals from his strong play.

The Saints made some attempts to surge back into the game in the second half but the Demons had all the answers. Jeff Garlett was superb with two goals in a minute. Jesse Hogan, who was being double teamed and having a poor day, lifted for a couple in the second half.

Newcomers Tom Bugg and Ben Kennedy added the hard competitive edge for which they were recruited and scored a goal each. Dean Kent was also strong with two goals. But the impressive of the field was Christian Salem with a consistent four quarter performance all over the ground. One minute he was holding the opposition at bay and the next he was scoring a super goal - also a first in a while for the club.

The NAB Challenge of 2016 has been great for the Melbourne Football Club but being the champions in March is meaningless if you don't perform from round 1 of the real thing.

Melbourne 0.4.1.25 0.8.5.53  0.11.12.78 1.14.14.107

St Kilda 0.4.5.29 0.6.7.43 0.9.10.64 0.12.21.83   

Nine pointers

Melbourne Salem

Goals

Melbourne Garlett 3 Hogan Kent Oliver Watts 2 Bugg Kennedy Pedersen T Bugg

St Kilda Billings 3 Bruce 2 Armitage Dunstan Hickey Montagna Newnes Steven Weller

Best

Melbourne Salem Garlett Watts N Jones Viney Bugg Gawn

St Kilda Steven, Montagna Billings Ross Bruce Lonie Newnes

Injuries

Melbourne Jetta (ankle) M Jones (concussion)

St Kilda Riewoldt (soreness)

Umpires Chris Donlon Dean Margetts Leigh Fisher Jack Edwards

Crowd 8,621 at Etihad Stadium

Meanwhile, on Saturday at Casey Fields, Jayden Hunt and Heritier Lumumba were among the few good players in the Scorpions' big defeat at the hands of reigning premier Williamstown.

[JimmyNP 174]

Oliver 18, Stretch 19, Brayshaw 20, Petracca 20, Salem 20, Hogan 21, Viney 21, Kent 22, Tyson 22, McDonald 22.

Jesus.

[Cards13 9,117]

Ps if we had of kicked straight could have been 50 point trashing.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

6 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Ps if we had of kicked straight could have been 50 point trashing.

20 scoring shots against Port, 22 vs the Dogs, 29 against St Kilda.

We only had 29 or more scoring shots last year once - Round 1 vs Gold Coast (30).

Indeed, we only had 14 games where we had 20 or more scoring shots.

[Redleg 41,427]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

• Forget about Hogans goal kicking yips, the fact that he was getting man handled by Fisher right in front of umpire Leigh Fisher (former teammates and good friends) and not getting a free kick was an absolute disgrace. I can see why he was getting frustrated. 3 times in a row he got held and not once a free kick. Fisher by the way shouldn't umpire saints game. Some of his decisions were mind boggling.

 

I was thinking the same thing yesterday. I wonder how his umpiring review of the game will go. 

[Macca 17,032]

Most of the analysis of the players has been covered very well in this thread but a few points on those who need to prove a bit, the new players and those on the fringe ...

 

• Wagner, Harmes, Frost  & O-Mac all showed a bit considering how raw & inexperienced they are - something to work with there with all 4 players. We've now got a decent development team so all 4 players have got every chance. They are going to make a few mistakes so a level of patience is needed.
• Bugg & Kennedy were both busy and acquitted themselves well ... starting 22 for both lads on what we've seen. Oliver was the standout though and he could be anything.
• M Jones & Grimes both did some nice bits and pieces over the 3 games ... whether that's enough to be automatic selections is up in the air ... Pedersen is needed to give Gawn a chop-out so he'll be a starter you'd reckon - takes some nice grabs just when it's needed. Kent is not really a fringe player if it all comes together for him - if the team starts winning consistently look for him to cash in. Watts looks a different player - keep it up, Jack.

 

Apart from the above, a special mention for Nate Jones - he was very good yesterday and looks set for another big year. His chasing, tackling and harassment of the opposition was top notch. We had a number of other good players yesterday.

With a number of other certain starters to push for selection in the first month of the season proper, things are looking good - we just have to find a way to win that round 1 clash against GWS.

[durango 2,023]

Try  afl.com.au/video/2016-03-14/nab-demons-v-saints-q1/

[Redleg 41,427]

1 hour ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Then I suggest you listen to your tinea.  It must be difficult being so much smarter than everyone else.

I think the point King made re Goodwin and Roos is one of the more interesting issues facing the club in the immediate future. He knows Goodwin is taking over - der - he was asking when is the right time.

It's been well documented that Goodwin has driven preseason and Roos has taken a more back seat role.  Goodwin has also been given the senior coaching duties during the preseason cup and the performance of the team has exceeded external expectations.

The old saying of "don't fix it if it ain't broke" could be good advice for us now but the management of this is difficult.  Roos has been undeniably fantastic for this club IMO.  I've mates that question his motives but the results speak for themselves.  Our footy club looks like one now thanks mainly to Jackson but also significantly to Roos.  But what is clear over the Roos journey is his ego is evident and his image important to him.  He's made some terrible public utterances such as "sometimes the players just don't listen" and on 360 he was saved by Buckley on several occasions when the heat went on him personally.

I think the best thing for this club now is for Roos to hand over the senior coaching role to Goodwin- if not in name then in practice.  It will allow a consistent message and delivery to the players for the rest of the season and what is clear is the players are getting that message. But I also thing Roos ego won't allow that.  I think we'll see Roos as the senior coach in the box on game day and we'll see him address the player at game breaks.

But what a wonderful thing it would be if Roos said words to the effect that Goodwin has progressed much faster than could be anticipated and he thought it best he should remain in control of the playing group allowing Roos to concentrate on broader issues within the club. 

I've raised these question all through the off season but IMO this is Goodwin's team now.  He'll make selection decisions, game plan decisions and at season end list management decisions.  Let's hope Roos lets this natural progression continue and ego doesn't get in the way. If he could he'd stamp himself as a true leader.

Agree and I think that Roos can allow the current situation to continue, while still being the senior Coach. He can do the TV match grabs and press conferences etc and can even continue to sit on the bench and talk to players about things during the game. Whether he addresses the group at breaks, or Goodwin does, will probably not really matter, as Leigh Matthews said, " everything is really done during the week".

it is working and there is no need to change, Roos is the Coach and Goodwin is driving the new game plan.

[Redleg 41,427]

We have a sensational development Coach, who will now have the time to properly develop players and add them to our production line. we are the new Melbourne Football Club.

I await the day when I see headlines that say " star wants to leave his club, to play with the perennial finalist, Melbourne".

[mo64 5,881]

5 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Loved the defensive pressue brought on by, Jeffy, kent, Harmes and Kennedy. We've struggled keeping the ball alive in our forward half but those guys were manic yesterday. 

Frustrated by the skill errors coming out of deep defense, while the idea is right the skills weren't great. Hoping with Dunn and Lumumba come back and if Bernie can play more half back this can be addressed. Not sure how many of their goals came from turnovers but it's one area if we tighten up on will make us much better.

A lot of that's due to the high press being implemented by Goodwin. It doesn't allow the opposition backmen easy options further afield. On the flip side, the high press highlights the skill level of your backmen in one-on-one contests, zoning and when we've got the ball. In all 3 NAB cup games, Garland, O Mac and Wagner's poor skill levels and decision making have shown up badly. 

As an aside, apart from Sandy, the Fox commentators weren't that bad. They did mention that last year we turned the ball over deeper in defence than any other team. That should change with Goodwin's high press.

Edited March 14, 2016 by mo64

[Demon Jack 6,930]

Love Bernie playing off half-back. Adds another string to his bow and will only further his career at the Demons. Bernie turns 31 at the end of the year but I could easily see him playing another 2-3 seasons after 2016. Could be a dangerous forward as well.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

7 minutes ago, Redleg said:

We have a sensational development Coach, who will now have the time to properly develop players and add them to our production line. we are the new Melbourne Football Club.

I await the day when I see headlines that say " star wants to leave his club, to play with the perennial finalist, Melbourne".

Most importantly, we have a sensational recruiting team.

[rjay 25,087]

1 hour ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Then I suggest you listen to your tinea.  It must be difficult being so much smarter than everyone else.

I think the point King made re Goodwin and Roos is one of the more interesting issues facing the club in the immediate future. He knows Goodwin is taking over - der - he was asking when is the right time.

It's been well documented that Goodwin has driven preseason and Roos has taken a more back seat role.  Goodwin has also been given the senior coaching duties during the preseason cup and the performance of the team has exceeded external expectations.

The old saying of "don't fix it if it ain't broke" could be good advice for us now but the management of this is difficult.  Roos has been undeniably fantastic for this club IMO.  I've mates that question his motives but the results speak for themselves.  Our footy club looks like one now thanks mainly to Jackson but also significantly to Roos.  But what is clear over the Roos journey is his ego is evident and his image important to him.  He's made some terrible public utterances such as "sometimes the players just don't listen" and on 360 he was saved by Buckley on several occasions when the heat went on him personally.

I think the best thing for this club now is for Roos to hand over the senior coaching role to Goodwin- if not in name then in practice.  It will allow a consistent message and delivery to the players for the rest of the season and what is clear is the players are getting that message. But I also thing Roos ego won't allow that.  I think we'll see Roos as the senior coach in the box on game day and we'll see him address the player at game breaks.

But what a wonderful thing it would be if Roos said words to the effect that Goodwin has progressed much faster than could be anticipated and he thought it best he should remain in control of the playing group allowing Roos to concentrate on broader issues within the club. 

I've raised these question all through the off season but IMO this is Goodwin's team now.  He'll make selection decisions, game plan decisions and at season end list management decisions.  Let's hope Roos lets this natural progression continue and ego doesn't get in the way. If he could he'd stamp himself as a true leader.

The club have a plan in place, they seem to be making the right moves. I just don't see an issue here at all.

King is just stirring things up a bit, it's part of his job. No reason to be sucked in by it.

The succession plan has been in place since Roos came on board, why should it change?

It's nothing to do with Roos ego, the consistent message to the players is to stick with the plan as spelled out by Jackson & Roos with Goodwin as a key component.

I think the players would have a bigger problem if the plan was changed mid stream...it would show that the club is not strong enough to follow through its planning and commitments.

I don't understand why we would want to change anything mid stream...

[Biffen 12,946]

If we let D.King dictate how and when we transition head coach we are in big trouble. He is an oxygen thief of the highest order.

He uses every chance to pot our club unlike Roos who is constructive and respectful to all.

[dee-luded 2,959]

14 hours ago, Demon Jack said:

I know it's only pre-season, but does anyone else feel this is genuinely the start of something special? I'm not saying finals are a certainty this year but things just seem to be...well...'right' at the moment.

I mean all of a sudden, the club is now drafting AFL ready players (Oliver, Brayshaw), we have a reliable midfield with legitimate depth and a key group of young leaders ready and determined to bring this club back up the ladder. 

Heck, even Jack Watts is clunking contested marks and laying tackles. Are we sure that this is Melbourne?

are we shaw its really jack?

[dee-luded 2,959]

22 minutes ago, Demon Jack said:

Love Bernie playing off half-back. Adds another string to his bow and will only further his career at the Demons. Bernie turns 31 at the end of the year but I could easily see him playing another 2-3 seasons after 2016. Could be a dangerous forward as well.

 

also Bernies timeframe works well,  with the development of MWhite, Wagner etc.    And having him 'back',  allows us to start to settle the midfield,  when Lamumba is fit,  we may have an injured mid?

Depth is a wonderful thing.

[Slartibartfast 17,625]

11 minutes ago, rjay said:

The club have a plan in place, they seem to be making the right moves. I just don't see an issue here at all.

King is just stirring things up a bit, it's part of his job. No reason to be sucked in by it.

The succession plan has been in place since Roos came on board, why should it change?

It's nothing to do with Roos ego, the consistent message to the players is to stick with the plan as spelled out by Jackson & Roos with Goodwin as a key component.

I think the players would have a bigger problem if the plan was changed mid stream...it would show that the club is not strong enough to follow through its planning and commitments.

I don't understand why we would want to change anything mid stream...

You change things because things change.  A decision made 2 years ago should not be adhered to if a better alternative arises. The players won't be concerned by the change and they may in fact like it.  Rather than showing the club is not strong enough to follow through its planning it would show we can be agile and respond to situations.

2 minutes ago, Biffen said:

If we let D.King dictate how and when we transition head coach we are in big trouble. He is an oxygen theif of the highest order.

He uses every chance to pot our club unlike Roos who is constructive and respectful to all.

If you really think that Jackson and Mahoney will let David King "dictate how and when we transition head coach" you're a very poor judge of situations.

King raised the question.  It's one I've had for some time and it's one I'll continue to ponder. I'm not sure he even offered a position on this question.

 

[Gorgoroth 13,016]

Whilst Bernie was decent off half back, he is much better at half forward, he can kick goals in either side from 50.

not sure if it was just me or did we not play Jones and Vince through the middle as much? 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

It's still critical to have Roos around as the wise old hand.

Goodwin is effectively a first year coach and without experience, at the first sign of trouble (a bad loss or a string of losses), he could be Bailey or Neeld all over again.

Unlikely. But it's way better to have Roos hanging around in the background steadying the ship.

[Slartibartfast 17,625]

I don't think anyone is suggesting he leave before the end of this year.  I'm certainly not.