As others have said and continue to say, Tom McDonald continues to be a liability with the ball in his hands.

I can't understand why supporters think that taking a few intercept marks during the game correlates to a 'good game'. What the fark do you people watch?

The footy club obviously see little alternative as they refuse to play Dunn or Garland. 

We have T-Mac, Frost and O-Mac holding down key posts. It's as shaky a defence you'll see from a side who are sitting 10th on the ladder. Yesterday was but a taste of what's to come in regards to high pressure games. Imagine if it were a final? I have little to no confidence that T-Mac won't turn it over when the ball is in his hands. Frost doesn't have a football brain and sorely lacks the basic and fundemental skills required to play the game regardless of his impressive 'athletic' capabilities. And Oscar McDonald is only getting games because the selection committee have little to no faith in two experienced and former 'leadership group' players in Garland and Dunn. Which says a huge amount about the both of them as players and is not spoken about enough on here.

There were plenty of positives to take out of yesterday's game and I was proud of the way we played. But fark me we will continue to leak goals from our backline play if we don't bring in some quality KP defenders.

Brown, McKenzie, Hurley. We need to land one.

Hibberd as well. 

We need experience and competence back there. And we have little atm.

 

 

Can we put a kicking clause in his new contract that we are offering?

Loses money with each turnover as a result of a poor kick. Poor bugger might not have much money left come seasons end

People on here cant continue to live in the delusion that we are going to just magicaly get another KPD in the trade period. We might have a slight chance but we have no way of knowing this, we are not a destination club yet. Hurley is just about a pipe dream he has far better options than Melbourne right now assuming he wants to leave at all. Suggestions Trading Tom robs us of all we have... I would rather have Tom give up a couple of goals a game and stop countless others than throw him to Sydney were he can help them win another flag and we can give up another 4/5 goals a game just to satisfy your bloodlust. 

I know people say that an intercept mark is not worth much but I cant understand why. Its a turnover. Meaning if he takes 4 intercept marks thats forcing 4 turnovers! Add his spoils and effort at ground level that result in turnovers and I can guarantee you that he causes us to gain the ball far more frequently than he gives it up. No, that doesnt excuse his poor disposal, but it does make it worth putting up with when we have no other option. If we are lucky enough to get a KPD then having that magical person and Tom will be fantastic. He has no support he makes a mistake we are done for, give him a backup and suddenly his mistakes wont be so bad.

11 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

People on here cant continue to live in the delusion that we are going to just magicaly get another KPD in the trade period. We might have a slight chance but we have no way of knowing this, we are not a destination club yet. Hurley is just about a pipe dream he has far better options than Melbourne right now assuming he wants to leave at all. Suggestions Trading Tom robs us of all we have... I would rather have Tom give up a couple of goals a game and stop countless others than throw him to Sydney were he can help them win another flag and we can give up another 4/5 goals a game just to satisfy your bloodlust. 

I know people say that an intercept mark is not worth much but I cant understand why. Its a turnover. Meaning if he takes 4 intercept marks thats forcing 4 turnovers! Add his spoils and effort at ground level that result in turnovers and I can guarantee you that he causes us to gain the ball far more frequently than he gives it up. No, that doesnt excuse his poor disposal, but it does make it worth putting up with when we have no other option. If we are lucky enough to get a KPD then having that magical person and Tom will be fantastic. He has no support he makes a mistake we are done for, give him a backup and suddenly his mistakes wont be so bad.

Totally agree, AW.  Brian Lake and Chip Frawley known weakness was poor disposal but their strength was reading the ball in the air and taking intercept marks. 

They were both head hunted to the Hawkes for that skill and backline structures were built to minimise the impact of their weakness (poor disposal).

We should not understimate Tom's strengths and how valuable they are in winning a premiership.  If Sydney are chasing him it is for premiership reasons.

Tom will not be a 'complete' defender (Rance, Talia or Hurley) but he may be a Frawley or Lake - a premiership player who has an individual weakness but strengthens the team.  Lets hope that premiership is with the Demons!! 

Edited July 4, 20169 yr by Lucifer's Hero

Tom mis-kicks a few times a match and because of where he plays it's looks and is costly.  But he sets up a lot of creative play too which gets overlooked by many here.  It's not decision making errors it's execution errors which he can continue to work on.  He's a terrific player and his intercept marking is great.

Seriously anyone who doesn't think McDonald is an incredibly valuable commodity to this team, is kidding themselves.

He is the only serious quality key position defender we have left on our list. Lose him, and our defence will turn into an even bigger goal-enabling machine!

1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

Tom mis-kicks a few times a match and because of where he plays it's looks and is costly.  But he sets up a lot of creative play too which gets overlooked by many here.  It's not decision making errors it's execution errors which he can continue to work on.  He's a terrific player and his intercept marking is great.

At least 3 and often 4 goals result. He will never be a key player unless he can get rid of that. He has brain fades and when he tries to switch play it's heart in mouth stuff.

So I assume the anti Tom McDonald brigade are happy with Oscar McDonald and Sam Frost as our number one and two key defenders respectively, for the 2017 season.

Looks like a formidable defence without T Mac.

Edited July 4, 20169 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

57 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

At least 3 and often 4 goals result. He will never be a key player unless he can get rid of that. He has brain fades and when he tries to switch play it's heart in mouth stuff.

He's being instructed to do it and there's known risk.  It sets up a lot of positive attacking play when it comes off which is most of the time - Dunn and Garland are not in the team because they can't or won't do it.  The problem is his occasional skill execution errors and of course they stand out because of where they happen.  I'd love to see them gone but costing 3 or 4 goals a week is exaggeration.  If he can perfect his skills in this area he will be one of the greatest defenders we've ever had.

On 25/05/2016 at 8:42 AM, Demons11 said:

Seems like the Howe situation all over again

What the Pies have promised him he can play in the forward line?

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

So I assume the anti Tom McDonald brigade are happy with Oscar McDonald and Sam Frost as our number one and two key defenders respectively, for the 2017 season.

Looks like a formidable defence without T Mac.

You are assuming wrong.

On both counts.

McDonald has a place in the side. Obviously.

It's shaky because there is little support with Frost and O-Mac also playing. But it's also shaky because Tom simply isn't improving his ball use.

We cannot have all three play there next year if we're expecting to improve again. Tom McDonald has miles of work to do if he wants to be considered a reliable and consistent backman. 

We will land a KPD in the off-season. Because we have to. 

7 hours ago, Viscount Cardwell said:

You obviously did not watch the game 

 

7 hours ago, Demons11 said:

He butchered the ball.  That's the worst game I have seen him play 

23 touches, 11 marks, 4 contested, their big forwards didn't get much of a look-in. Nah, but he stuffed a couple of kicks up. Wattsy's come on so I guess people need someone else to hate!

3 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

He's being instructed to do it and there's known risk.  It sets up a lot of positive attacking play when it comes off which is most of the time - Dunn and Garland are not in the team because they can't or won't do it.  The problem is his occasional skill execution errors and of course they stand out because of where they happen.  I'd love to see them gone but costing 3 or 4 goals a week is exaggeration.  If he can perfect his skills in this area he will be one of the greatest defenders we've ever had.

Is Garland out because of his inability to play to team rules, or his shocking body language?

 

 

 

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

You are assuming wrong.

On both counts.

McDonald has a place in the side. Obviously.

It's shaky because there is little support with Frost and O-Mac also playing. But it's also shaky because Tom simply isn't improving his ball use.

We cannot have all three play there next year if we're expecting to improve again. Tom McDonald has miles of work to do if he wants to be considered a reliable and consistent backman. 

We will land a KPD in the off-season. Because we have to. 

Who is available that will be an upgrade on what we currently have?  If we take Hurley out of the equation for a moment, as there are plenty of variables there, who can we realistically land that will improve us in the short or long term?  Key defenders with talent don't just grow on trees or fall out of the sky into our laps.

Edit - I'm not disagreeing that we couldn't use an upgrade in the back half, but I just don't see much out there for us.  Hibberd would be terrific but he isn't a key backman.

Edited July 4, 20169 yr by Wiseblood

21 minutes ago, Dante said:

Is Garland out because of his inability to play to team rules, or his shocking body language?

It's probably got to do with him seemingly being scared by his own shadow.

20 hours ago, waynewussell said:

picket fence, your recent posts indicate a lack of knowledge of game plans post 1967. Backlines do not play man on man anymore. There is constant change related to zones and team defence. Yes, McDonald has flaws in disposal, and it costs us at times, but he will be snapped up by any of the top eight teams if they are presented with the opportunity. Now, what does that tell you about your overall appraisal?

What does it tell me??That current top 8 teams will utilize him as a running Half Back Flanker rather than  Free flowing and lose KPB.

Also that your attack should begin in the pivot and wings.! Too get polished first possesions you need polished inside mids! Eg Danger,Ablett etc

It also tells me our wingers also are not creative nor defensive enough! Melksham may be part of this solution!!

A key position CHB motto should still be Limit my man to a few possesions and keep him goal less and we win the game!

1967 ?? Well man on man still has a place if you want to win games IMO

Your move!!

7 hours ago, Jaded said:

Seriously anyone who doesn't think McDonald is an incredibly valuable commodity to this team, is kidding themselves.

He is the only serious quality key position defender we have left on our list. Lose him, and our defence will turn into an even bigger goal-enabling machine!

LOL!

Tom's bad kicking comes from his ball drop. It's worse than Hogan's. (A lot worse: Hogan is obviously working on his set shots.)

Tom throws the ball out in front of him, the ball floats in the air for five minutes before it gets down to his foot, and by the time he gets to kick it, it can be almost anywhere. If he wasn't running after it in the first place, he's miss it completely.

All good kickers guide the ball on to their foot. Look at Watts, Brayshaw, Bernie.

Plenty good qualities to Tom but he nullifies it with his bad kicking.

Has more positives .. Hard to find that strong defensive mark.. Turns it over @ times but which of our players aren't making dumb mistakes & costing us games right now??? Not being critical of the players but it's all part of their development!

Tom is definitely a great defender no doubt but I think the emphasis placed on his attacking side of the game has probably gone over the top. If Tom can concentrate on defending as his number one priority and when ball in hand look to go for a 'safe' option then I think his game will improve significantly. 

If we look at Hawks and Frawley. He is not a great kick and user of the ball, he seems to be directed to either look to kick it long down the line or to find a short kick or disposal to one of the better kicks. You often see him kicking it to a Gibson, Burgoyne etc. 

I think with the other tall backs, I think Frost can develop into a second key defensive post, until Omac gains more weight we will have to wait and see. 

If we can get a KP player through the trade period it would be ideal. Imagine if Hurley and Hibberd both came to the Dees! Now that would be a strong backline

9 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

He's being instructed to do it and there's known risk.  It sets up a lot of positive attacking play when it comes off which is most of the time - Dunn and Garland are not in the team because they can't or won't do it.  The problem is his occasional skill execution errors and of course they stand out because of where they happen.  I'd love to see them gone but costing 3 or 4 goals a week is exaggeration.  If he can perfect his skills in this area he will be one of the greatest defenders we've ever had.

Its not an exaggeration. And I doubt he is instructed to do what he is doing, He would be instructed to look inboard and look for the switch when safe to so, The problem is that his skill errors kill us. I watched him carefully yesterday and tonight on the replay. He'll do some good stuff and then completely stuff it up.

Q1

Dawes does a great tackle , kicks back to TMac and he fumbles the ball. T/over to Crows

TMac takes great mark from a kick in and then kicks into man on the mark

Q2

TMac does a blatant throw on members wing when we are running fwd T/over

TMac gets the ball with an open fwd line and kicks into man in the mark

Q3 

When we lost the game, TMac takes a great intercept mark , turns the ball over goal results

I have stopped watching and will resume but this game was not isolated. As I said, He has some great attributes but he has to clean up his brain farts and turnovers. Turnovers and poor composure cost us the game yesterday. We can't go anywhere with payers that continually do that. 

I was at the game on Sunday and I have now watched the whole replay... Tom McDonald was very good for most of the game. Even in the final quarter (we were closer to Adelaide than I had thought watching the game live) McDonald was resolute and turned their forward thrusts on a number of occasions. Bloody sure that he is a level above any other tall defenders we have, and he will be a hot-property around the comp if he doesn't sign with us.

We could just about supplant Frawley's name in here...similar things were being said.

Poor kick, poor decision maker etc...

Now he's a solid defender and premiership player, his kicking and decision making have magically improved, will never be A grade let alone elite (kicking & decision making) but more than acceptable.

We need to keep Tommy Mac and get him some help.

Tom McDonald currently sits 18th on the list of Marks this season (ahead of Rance and Tahlia - the only key defenders I can see that head him are Boyd and Josh Gibson by 1). He is currently 10th on the list of rebound 50's (that is 2 behind Boyd and 3 behind Hurn). He is going at 81% disposal efficiency (ahead of Tahlia, Boyd, Hurn - and Robert Murphy for that matter!). Anyone out there want to reconsider their appraisal of his worth?

While i think he will stay, if he was to take off to the Swans, what sort of deal would we accept in return?

assuming we don't get Hurley.

I don't think the Swans first round pick is enough for a young key position player who's going to be around the mark of All Australian for the next decade, i'd be hoping for that pick and something else. 

maybe the first rounder and Dean Towers who looked good the last few weeks but struggles to get regular games, is a very good young player.

and then as a replacement i think a New enviorment might really do some good for Nathan Brown from the Pies who has fallen off the cliff as a player and is said to feel the program over there isn't for him.