Saturday talking point: Intraclub and the State of the List

[Whispering_Jack 30,649]

 There has been a lot of talk about who was there yesterday and who played well but who didn't make it to the game?

Intraclub practice matches such as the one held by Melbourne yesterday at Casey Fields are an vital ingredient of the football season. They provide an essential warm up for the players in transition from the preseason moving into the NAB Challenge practice matches on the way to the opening of the premiership season which is little more than a month away.

The game gave those in attendance the opportunity to watch most of the club's recruits in action for the first time and to see who had improved over summer, who was fit and raring to go and of course, our hearts were in our mouths lest we lose any players through injury. On that score, the only apparent casualty, according to coach Paul Roos was ruckman Jake Spencer who suffered a "niggle".

 

We also learned of the importance of certain players to the club. With Spencer off the ground, it magnified the fact that the Demons are heavily reliant upon Max Gawn in the ruck, the other potential tall followers being young and inexperienced (and in Max King's case also presently injured) or part time ruckmen.

 

The Intraclub game also provided a showcase for the club's young, inexperienced midfield talent in the absence of its veterans in the skipper Nathan Jones and last year's Bluey winner Bernie Vince. 

 

While these games are essential, they aren't really great indicators of what's to come because, after all, they're very much like dancing with your sister. And, as we've seen over the last couple of evenings, the NAB Challenge matches are a long way short of the real thing.

 

We've read the reports on the game both here and in the media and they do throw some light on the season ahead but one thing is for certain. There is a group of players who comprise about a quarter of the club's list who were unavailable either through injury or because they were rested (and in Jake Melksham's case because of suspension for the year) and, judging by some of the names of those missing, it will be an essential to get as many of these players up and running as possible if we are going to see major improvement in 2016. They are -

 

2. Nathan Jones

5. Christian Petracca 

6. Chris Dawes

8. Heritier Lumumba 

9. Jack Trengove 

18. Jake Melksham 

19. Ben Newton

23. Bernie Vince

24. Jay Kennedy-Harris

27. Liam Hulett

41. Mitchell White

46. Dean Terlich

47. Max King

                                                                 

We've learned over time, that it's so important to have a healthy list. You can't always avoid injuries but, as we've seen with North Melbourne who made consecutive preliminary finals in 2014-5 with near full lists through most of the season and particularly at finals time, when the time comes, it helps to have a settled group of players fit and ready for battle.

 

Edited February 23, 2016 by Whispering_Jack
Added Vince & JKH, removed & then reversed the removal of Hulett from list of no shows

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I think this is best illustrated by the Swans in 2005 who essentially jagged a flag on the basis of an injury free season, despite not remotely having the best list in the competition at the time.

Sorry if I've missed it elsewhere, but what's wrong with Jones? And White and Hulett?

[Elwood 3184 1,338]

4 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Sorry if I've missed it elsewhere, but what's wrong with Jones? And White and Hulett?

You would think that anyone who didn't play yesterday would not be likely starters next weekend.

[Whispering_Jack 30,649]

Apparently Liam Hulett did play yesterday so I've removed him from the list of no shows in the OP.

Apologies.

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by Whispering_Jack
Scrub that

[Gator 17,449]

13 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Apparently Liam Hulett did play yesterday so I've removed him from the list of no shows in the OP. Apologies.

Are you sure ?

I'm virtually certain Hulett didn't play.

[Whispering_Jack 30,649]

32 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Are you sure ?

I'm virtually certain Hulett didn't play.

It was reported (apparently incorrectly) elsewhere that he did. Thanks.

I might have to put him back on the list of no shows then.?

[whatwhat say what 22,943]

Also missing was Vince.

 

I'd say max of 5 listed would be best possible 22 - Vince, Jones, Petracca, Dawes and maybe Trengove, with Lumumba, Melksham and Newton part of our much needed 'quality' depth.

[beelzebub 23,383]

You're not going to see Milkshake this season so he's not a possible player in terms of that list. Neednt be on it. 

[robbiefrom13 892]

yes.  Overlooking Melksham's status seems to me to be a mistake suggestive of a wrong attitude.  Not saying WJ has a wrong attitude, but his inclusion of Melksham on his list makes it sound like he is not respectfully aware of the enormous black mark against Melksham's name for the duration of 2016.  All of us should, in my opinion, be very conscious of MFC having become implicated after the event (quite unnecessarily) in something disgraceful.  I wish we'd never recruited any of the 34, and certainly wish we now maintained a very careful distance from Essendon's and the media's attitude to CAS's sanction.  Melksham is an embarrassment on our list in 2016; he can offer the club absolutely nothing but shame this year.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

8 minutes ago, robbiefrom13 said:

yes.  Overlooking Melksham's status seems to me to be a mistake suggestive of a wrong attitude.  Not saying WJ has a wrong attitude, but his inclusion of Melksham on his list makes it sound like he is not respectfully aware of the enormous black mark against Melksham's name for the duration of 2016.  All of us should, in my opinion, be very conscious of MFC having become implicated after the event (quite unnecessarily) in something disgraceful.  I wish we'd never recruited any of the 34, and certainly wish we now maintained a very careful distance from Essendon's and the media's attitude to CAS's sanction.  Melksham is an embarrassment on our list in 2016; he can offer the club absolutely nothing but shame this year.

You'll get over it.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Anyone know when Harry might rejoin the fit list (as in be up for selecting )

[robbiefrom13 892]

27 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

You'll get over it.

maybe, maybe not.  Discreet ignore till then, I think.

[old demon me!!! 108]

1 hour ago, robbiefrom13 said:

yes.  Overlooking Melksham's status seems to me to be a mistake suggestive of a wrong attitude.  Not saying WJ has a wrong attitude, but his inclusion of Melksham on his list makes it sound like he is not respectfully aware of the enormous black mark against Melksham's name for the duration of 2016.  All of us should, in my opinion, be very conscious of MFC having become implicated after the event (quite unnecessarily) in something disgraceful.  I wish we'd never recruited any of the 34, and certainly wish we now maintained a very careful distance from Essendon's and the media's attitude to CAS's sanction.  Melksham is an embarrassment on our list in 2016; he can offer the club absolutely nothing but shame this year.

Long time reader,first time poster i dont normally post as generally i cant be bothered but i have to say your post is a disgrace and i am glad you have never made a mistake in your life,your last line is well ...just so wrong and as far as i am concerned it brings shame on you !!!! and ....well ....na cant be bothered,i just feel sad for you oh and by the way i dont think any of them are drug cheats,i think what was done to them was SOMETHING DISGRACEFUL.   

[beelzebub 23,383]

7 minutes ago, old demon me!!! said:

Long time reader,first time poster i dont normally post as generally i cant be bothered but i have to say your post is a disgrace and i am glad you have never made a mistake in your life,your last line is well ...just so wrong and as far as i am concerned it brings shame on you !!!! and ....well ....na cant be bothered,i just feel sad for you oh and by the way i dont think any of them are drug cheats,i think what was done to them was SOMETHING DISGRACEFUL.   

Then again we're discussing a decision by a professional organisation. There was ample opportunity to get information onboard. Anyone following the Essendon debacle who could apply reason foretoldthe outcome. Our clubs action seems to have flown in the face of this thinking.

So either the club is astute beyond measurement or they fcuked up when they plainly neednt have.

We're not talking about anyold mistake you or I might make.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Anyhow back to the list.

Am keen to see Harry back and Tracca to debut. Here are two amongst a number who I feel ought to have impact.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

1 hour ago, robbiefrom13 said:

yes.  Overlooking Melksham's status seems to me to be a mistake suggestive of a wrong attitude.  Not saying WJ has a wrong attitude, but his inclusion of Melksham on his list makes it sound like he is not respectfully aware of the enormous black mark against Melksham's name for the duration of 2016.  All of us should, in my opinion, be very conscious of MFC having become implicated after the event (quite unnecessarily) in something disgraceful.  I wish we'd never recruited any of the 34, and certainly wish we now maintained a very careful distance from Essendon's and the media's attitude to CAS's sanction.  Melksham is an embarrassment on our list in 2016; he can offer the club absolutely nothing but shame this year.

Sigh!!!!!!!?

[Gator 17,449]

1 hour ago, robbiefrom13 said:

yes.  Overlooking Melksham's status seems to me to be a mistake suggestive of a wrong attitude.  Not saying WJ has a wrong attitude, but his inclusion of Melksham on his list makes it sound like he is not respectfully aware of the enormous black mark against Melksham's name for the duration of 2016.  All of us should, in my opinion, be very conscious of MFC having become implicated after the event (quite unnecessarily) in something disgraceful.  

We are not "implicated" in anything.

What an ill-considered assertion.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

36 minutes ago, old demon me!!! said:

Long time reader,first time poster i dont normally post as generally i cant be bothered but i have to say your post is a disgrace and i am glad you have never made a mistake in your life,your last line is well ...just so wrong and as far as i am concerned it brings shame on you !!!! and ....well ....na cant be bothered,i just feel sad for you oh and by the way i dont think any of them are drug cheats,i think what was done to them was SOMETHING DISGRACEFUL.   

What was done to them??

My best mate coaches a certain age group/club in the TAC, he has worked with a number of current AFL players when they were juniors. They are fully aware at a young age as to what is acceptable. First year AFL players attend courses on gambling/drugs/social behaviour.

Essendon cheated and got caught, the players were onboard and as we already know some were strong enough to say no.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

18 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

What was done to them??

My best mate coaches a certain age group/club in the TAC, he has worked with a number of current AFL players when they were juniors. They are fully aware at a young age as to what is acceptable. First year AFL players attend courses on gambling/drugs/social behaviour.

Essendon cheated and got caught, the players were onboard and as we already know some were strong enough to say no.

This has been done to death   you have got young guys who have sweated blood to get on an AFL list knowing it could all end with injury or delisting     they were told everything was above board    hands up anybody who has never gone against their principles so not to lose something    there is only one 'guilty" person in all this for me    Hird

Edited February 20, 2016 by Satyriconhome
Smar8phone

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

5 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

 There has been a lot of talk about who was there yesterday and who played well but who didn't make it to the game?

Intraclub practice matches such as the one held by Melbourne yesterday at Casey Fields are an vital ingredient of the football season. They provide an essential warm up for the players in transition from the preseason moving into the NAB Challenge practice matches on the way to the opening of the premiership season which is little more than a month away.

The game gave those in attendance the opportunity to watch most of the club's recruits in action for the first time and to see who had improved over summer, who was fit and raring to go and of course, our hearts were in our mouths lest we lose any players through injury. On that score, the only apparent casualty, according to coach Paul Roos was ruckman Jake Spencer who suffered a "niggle".

 

We also learned of the importance of certain players to the club. With Spencer off the ground, it magnified the fact that the Demons are heavily reliant upon Max Gawn in the ruck, the other potential tall followers being young and inexperienced (and in Max King's case also presently injured) or part time ruckmen.

 

The Intraclub game also provided a showcase for the club's young, inexperienced midfield talent in the absence of its veterans in the skipper Nathan Jones and last year's Bluey winner Bernie Vince. 

 

While these games are essential, they aren't really great indicators of what's to come because, after all, they're very much like dancing with your sister. And, as we've seen over the last couple of evenings, the NAB Challenge matches are a long way short of the real thing.

 

We've read the reports on the game both here and in the media and they do throw some light on the season ahead but one thing is for certain. There is a group of players who comprise about a quarter of the club's list who were unavailable either through injury or because they were rested (and in Jake Melksham's case because of suspension for the year) and, judging by some of the names of those missing, it will be an essential to get as many of these players up and running as possible if we are going to see major improvement in 2016. They are -

 

2. Nathan Jones

5. Christian Petracca 

6. Chris Dawes

8. Heritier Lumumba 

9. Jack Trengove 

18. Jake Melksham 

19. Ben Newton

23. Bernie Vince

27. Liam Hulett

41. Mitchell White

46. Dean Terlich

47. Max King

                                                                 

We've learned over time, that it's so important to have a healthy list. You can't always avoid injuries but, as we've seen with North Melbourne who made consecutive preliminary finals in 2014-5 with near full lists through most of the season and particularly at finals time, when the time comes, it helps to have a settled group of players fit and ready for battle.

 

If we are relying on 

Dawes (cooked)

The Prince (overrated)

Trengove (may never play again)

Melksham (no comment)

Newton (not best 22)

Hulett (just a kid)

White (just a kid)

Terlich (depth player)

King (just a kid) 

To see major improvement this season we might as well shut up shop now. 

Jones ans Vince must maintain their rage, Petracca could be anything, we need continued improvement and consistency from the likes of Gawn, Viney, Salem, VB, Tmac etc.

 

[Redleg 41,428]

Had a bit of an argument with a pretty pathetic Dees supporter, who basically these days just rubbishes us. Well I suppose he is not a real supporter.

I tried to explain to him that our list has been turned over in the last couple of years,  but all he could answer was he had heard that for the last 10 years.

Again I tried to explain that our list was crap over the last 10 years and we have done something about it.

In summary though, even though he says he is a Dees fan, he is like many in the AFL world.

Until we produce, many will think we are just making up the numbers.

Go Dees and produce and stick it up the condescending and arrogant, clubs and individuals who make up the AFL.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

36 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Sigh!!!!!!!?

For the first time in, well, probably ever... I agree with you!

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Redleg said:

Had a bit of an argument with a pretty pathetic Dees supporter, who basically these days just rubbishes us. Well I suppose he is not a real supporter.

I tried to explain to him that our list has been turned over in the last couple of years,  but all he could answer was he had heard that for the last 10 years.

Again I tried to explain that our list was crap over the last 10 years and we have done something about it.

In summary though, even though he says he is a Dees fan, he is like many in the AFL world.

Until we produce, many will think we are just making up the numbers.

Go Dees and produce and stick it up the condescending and arrogant, clubs and individuals who make up the AFL.

I hate this argument.  I understand the last decade has been tough, but the old 'I've seen it all before' argument doesn't wash with me.  If you take 5 minutes to compare the club to now you'll see there is a huge difference... but some, I guess, are too far gone to realise that.

[In Harmes Way 7,823]

10 minutes ago, Redleg said:

In summary though, even though he says he is a Dees fan, he is like many in the AFL world.

Until we produce, many will think we are just making up the numbers.

It's exactly this attitude that had me continue to pay up memberships for me an small Jnr. Through the crap seasons prior to 2014. You know who your supporters are when things are really bad.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

19 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Had a bit of an argument with a pretty pathetic Dees supporter, who basically these days just rubbishes us. Well I suppose he is not a real supporter.

I tried to explain to him that our list has been turned over in the last couple of years,  but all he could answer was he had heard that for the last 10 years.

Again I tried to explain that our list was crap over the last 10 years and we have done something about it.

In summary though, even though he says he is a Dees fan, he is like many in the AFL world.

Until we produce, many will think we are just making up the numbers.

Go Dees and produce and stick it up the condescending and arrogant, clubs and individuals who make up the AFL.

Only one with this attitude, you need to get out more, issue has been with the demographic, always looking over their shoulder at the past, my analogy   we dug ourselves a hole and promply fell in, we have now found a ladder, just need to climb out of the hole, I have been closely involved with the club for the last 8 years, and have seen a few false dawns 

I am more optimistic this year, off the field it is all more focused and professional     on the footy side, we are developing the young playerd properly, and looking after the older ones both physically and mentally a lot better, I know because I talk to them   in Viney Hogan Brayshaw and Salem we have young leaders who crave success and will drag everybody with them to achieve it

The list is teally strong with the mix nearly right, would like a bit more defensive cover personally

 

 

Edited February 20, 2016 by Satyriconhome