The Jack Trengove is BACK Thread

[Ted Lasso 18,908]

Was desperately hoping jack would succeed, but at this stage he'd have to come in on the back of an injury crisis and absolutely dominate. No doubt he hasn't given up but it's not looking great 

[BAMF 4,172]

25 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Don't worry about that, 17 clubs passed on him a few years ago, when he was offered up as a trade after a few years with the Tigers, at a fraction of what he will get next year and is currently getting.

To be fair, I don't think an interview would have changed BP's mind one little bit. Scully and Trengove were the obvious choices at the time.

But having the chance to draft the best 2 kids in the country and not even bothering to interview a candidate shows how inept BP was. If you do not do your due diligence with pick 1 and 2 then what is the care factor with later picks?

[John Crow Batty 8,823]

38 minutes ago, Northern Summer said:

Comparing Grimes at this time last year and Trengove now, I would have said it would have been more likely that Grimes (a) would get another year and (b) if no new contract, a new club would be interested. Given Grimes got nothing, cannot see Trengove playing another AFL game, unless our midfield get hits with an abundance of injuries in the latter half of this season.

Sentiment has to be taken out of decisions these days given the league and clubs are multi-million dollar businesses. In saying that, there really is no logic as to why Trengove was given a 1-year deal this year. Sounds like a good bloke and he's been through a bit, but you can't hand out contracts just for that.

 

 

 

 

 

Trengove might get a tribute game if we bomb out of the finals race.

[Lampers 563]

8 minutes ago, Night Crawler said:

To be fair, I don't think an interview would have changed BP's mind one little bit. Scully and Trengove were the obvious choices at the time.

But having the chance to draft the best 2 kids in the country and not even bothering to interview a candidate shows how inept BP was. If you do not do your due diligence with pick 1 and 2 then what is the care factor with later picks?

I'm not sure an interview with Martin would've moved him up the order. Martin is not bright, as he as shown multiple times, and Trengove had it over both he and Scully for leadership, and Scully over the other two for sheer dedication/determination (potentially to the point of being unlikeable and selfish).

If you've decided on football ability already, and their personal traits would've been well known irrespective of an interview, I'm less concerned about additional due diligence at the top end of the draft. 

Where you want the due diligence is the mid picks where an individual's personality is a much better indicator of how much they will extract from their lesser apparent base talents. I think Predergast and the recruiting team of the time's main misses were on judging how well junior traits translate to AFL level - they went for too many players who had junior level strengths that become run of the mill at AFL, and they also had limitations that were exposed at AFL level.

Although development must've been poor, the fact that none of those early picks flourished elsewhere can't be down to a missed few years of quality development. I think they were players that were more likely never going to be stars, and maybe with better early development could've been solid role players.

The one player who really kicked on, aside from Scully who as a #1 should've anyway, is Stef Martin who was only a project player. He was mismanaged for his personality type. Martin needed positive reinforcement and was sensitive to criticism, and he got berated and publicly embarrassed by Neeld for his faults.

[pinkshark 949]

6 hours ago, bandicoot said:

Seems like his cards are marked. Cant see him being recalled to the side anytime this year. 

Really wanted to see him make it back to the the seniors however we are stacked with similar players. Jones, Oliver, Tyson, viney and Lewis all play a similar role and are in front of him.  

Only Watts, jones and  T mac remain from the dreaded neeld days. 

Partly the reason I am their biggest fan.  It was clear to me always that these three were our greatest talents.  They are three players I would love to see share success together. 

Edited June 3, 2017 by pinkshark

[pinkshark 949]

5 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Painful, but let's visit the 2009 draft shall we.

Pick 1 - T$ - bust (though compo did help us land Hogan)

Pick 2 - Trenners - unfortunately a bust  (was tracking well early days )

Pick 11 - Jordan Gysberts - Bust

Pick 18 - Tapscott - Bust

Pick 34 - Max Gawn - Yay we got one right!

Pick 50 - Fitzpatrick - Bust

 

One out of six. With 5 picks in the top 34 (4 in the first 18). This draft could've wielded the likes of Martin, Talia, Fyfe, Carlisle along with Gawn. A back-line set, an AA ruckman and 2 A-grade mids.

Christ, BP really did screw the pooch on this one, FMD. 

Not a bust.  As you point out, it got us Hogan.  That my friend is not a bust.  It was a good piece of business.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I'd have played him ahead of Tyson a couple of times this year already.

 

[Guest]

The ghosts of Christmas past have been making an unwelcome comeback over the last week on here.

I'm not referring to Trenners as part of a culture best forgotten. More his promotion to captain and him playing through 2012-2013 hurt. I wouldn't hold it against him if he held a grudge against the club until his final breath.

When people come on here ranting about how disgraceful we are, I suggest they look at that period. It wasn't just a time when fans were seriously let down. The duty of care extended to players was also extremely poor.

Our current challenge is to make the jump from mid table to finalist. It's not about fixing a broken and morally bankrupt club as it was back then.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Colin B. Flaubert
Missing an indefinite article.

[praha 11,217]

1 hour ago, Forest Demon said:

 

And let's not forget the farcical trade to Richmond which fell through due to the medical.

 

That was weird because the club must have known his status. Either they banked on him passing the medical on any given day, or Trengove fluffed it which is extremely doubtful and not in his character. 

That said we'd have gotten pick 12 or whatever for him, which would have been AMAZING and a typical Richmond trade. May have been the best for both parties though so in hindsight it's probably sad for Trengove that the trade didn't go through.

[praha 11,217]

1 hour ago, Lampers said:

Martin is not bright, as he as shown multiple times

Martin is a lot smarter than people dare admit and he has an exceptional football IQ. He's a rough around the edges kind of guy but he's a diamond in the rough. The public perception of him is based on media coverage, which is fixated on him due to his appearance and deamonor. He is the complete opposite of the kind of guy his aesthetic projects.

[Sir Why You Little 36,737]

11 minutes ago, praha said:

Martin is a lot smarter than people dare admit and he has an exceptional football IQ. He's a rough around the edges kind of guy but he's a diamond in the rough. The public perception of him is based on media coverage, which is fixated on him due to his appearance and deamonor. He is the complete opposite of the kind of guy his aesthetic projects.

To not give him an interview just shows how amateur and useless the club was back then. 

Dustin Martin is a weird cat, but he is not dumb. The day with the chopsticks, well we have all had one of those...after an all nighter...

Would have been a great player in our midfield. We blew it with him and Ollie wines

[Salems Lot 2,483]

Hindsight; I remember the received opinion at the time was it was Scully and Trengove as the 1&2 picks and the order could have gone either way.  There was acknowledgement that Martin was good but the other 2 were better.  Yes we missed a chance but at the time it would have been seen as a brave move. Wines on the other hand was more of a genuine miss in my opinion.

[Sir Why You Little 36,737]

9 minutes ago, Salems Lot said:

Hindsight; I remember the received opinion at the time was it was Scully and Trengove as the 1&2 picks and the order could have gone either way.  There was acknowledgement that Martin was good but the other 2 were better.  Yes we missed a chance but at the time it would have been seen as a brave move. Wines on the other hand was more of a genuine miss in my opinion.

I remember what all the recruiters said. They were wrong about Trengove sadly

he was never number 2 in the country. Even before he hurt his foot, he lacked pace. 

A good player, but top 20. BP was either a really bad operator or Schwab was calling the shots. 

Going by his "Whiteboard" Series he wanted to recruit the list as well as be the CEO

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

2 hours ago, Night Crawler said:

To be fair, I don't think an interview would have changed BP's mind one little bit. Scully and Trengove were the obvious choices at the time.

But having the chance to draft the best 2 kids in the country and not even bothering to interview a candidate shows how inept BP was. If you do not do your due diligence with pick 1 and 2 then what is the care factor with later picks?

I think Roos/Swans would've picked Martin had they had pick one, not pick six (which they used on Rohan).

Not to have even bothered to interview Martin is a real feather in BP's cap being a professional recruiter and having picks 1 and 2 in that draft.

 

 

[John Crow Batty 8,823]

20 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I remember what all the recruiters said. They were wrong about Trengove sadly

he was never number 2 in the country. Even before he hurt his foot, he lacked pace. 

A good player, but top 20. BP was either a really bad operator or Schwab was calling the shots. 

Going by his "Whiteboard" Series he wanted to recruit the list as well as be the CEO

It was common knowledge that Scully and Trengove were the ones even before midway through the season.  We got karma for tanking. If we didn't tank and finished higher up, those two may have been taken by other clubs  and we could have got Martin. Two more wins would have pushed us up to 14th and I believe we were good enough for up to 8 wins that season if we played fairdinkum. 

Edited June 3, 2017 by america de cali

[McQueen 17,864]

The AfL site 'free agency' article has him most likely hanging up the boots at seasons end.

I hope he sticks at it and pursues league games with another club if we let him go.

[Sir Why You Little 36,737]

5 minutes ago, america de cali said:

It was common knowledge that Scully and Trengove were the ones even before midway through the season.  We got karma for tanking. If we didn't tank and finished higher up, those two may have been taken by other clubs  and we could have got Martin. Two more wins would have pushed us up to 14th and I believe we were good enough for up to 8 wins that season if we played fairdinkum. 

I agree with that, but i will never understand why Trengove was rated so highly. He always lacked pace. 

Sure he played some good games, but never dominated like an elite player does. 

He was always rushing his skills because of a lack of pace. 

But yes Karma did hit us again

[Ted Lasso 18,908]

49 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I think Roos/Swans would've picked Martin had they had pick one, not pick six (which they used on Rohan).

Not to have even bothered to interview Martin is a real feather in BP's cap being a professional recruiter and having picks 1 and 2 in that draft.

 

 

Before Paul Roos signed with us he said a few times that he genuinely thought Trengove was good enough to be an elite inside midfielder, it's just such a shame he hasn't come on the way we all hoped 

[Adam The God 29,646]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I agree with that, but i will never understand why Trengove was rated so highly. He always lacked pace. 

Sure he played some good games, but never dominated like an elite player does. 

He was always rushing his skills because of a lack of pace. 

But yes Karma did hit us again

Trengove has definitely lost pace for whatever reason. Showed some reasonable signs early. Love his commitment to his club and team mates, but he's never dominated.

However, he played some standout games in the SANFL that year as an underager and I remember being really excited by that.

There's always hindsight, but top picks are never guaranteed successes. I wouldn't say any of Carlton's #1 picks have lived up to expectation. Murphy is a solid B+, cusp A grader, but no superstar and Gibbs is the same (very Jack Watts IMO) and Kreuzer has been an injury-riddled disappointment. Certainly has some talent, but like the other two, would never have been a superstar.

Unfortunately, with our drafting system, your expectation is the #1 pick is going to be a superstar, but it rarely comes to fruition. 

[Sir Why You Little 36,737]

6 minutes ago, A F said:

Trengove has definitely lost pace for whatever reason. Showed some reasonable signs early. Love his commitment to his club and team mates, but he's never dominated.

However, he played some standout games in the SANFL that year as an underager and I remember being really excited by that.

There's always hindsight, but top picks are never guaranteed successes. I wouldn't say any of Carlton's #1 picks have lived up to expectation. Murphy is a solid B+, cusp A grader, but no superstar and Gibbs is the same (very Jack Watts IMO) and Kreuzer has been an injury-riddled disappointment. Certainly has some talent, but like the other two, would never have been a superstar.

Unfortunately, with our drafting system, your expectation is the #1 pick is going to be a superstar, but it rarely comes to fruition. 

I expect the recruiters to know there job better rather than just agree with "Group Think"

slow pace will kill most players at AFL Level. Even in 2010 Trengove wasn't quick  he was clever and was a solid mark, but he lacked power in his legs, which may be how his injury started in the first place.

 His application is second to none but a lack of pace will always be a burden  

Toumpas was a similiar scenario on field

SANFL is just above VFL. 

We burnt ourselves twice 

[Nasher 33,607]

5 hours ago, Night Crawler said:

It was obvious to BP. He didnt even bother to interview Dustin Martin.

Do you reckon Dusty would have knocked 'em over in the interview?

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

34 minutes ago, Abe said:

Before Paul Roos signed with us he said a few times that he genuinely thought Trengove was good enough to be an elite inside midfielder, it's just such a shame he hasn't come on the way we all hoped 

It's a genuine shame. I actually think he's still a good football player but a return to AFL seems less likely by the week. At the very least, it seems highly unlikely he'll ever become an elite AFL midfielder now.

Interesting that Roos tried to get pick 12 for him from Richmond in order to land Lever. Perhaps he changed his view slightly after getting to know the list as the senior coach. He was however definitely a bloody good player in his first 2-3 years at the club.

 

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

4 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Do you reckon Dusty would have knocked 'em over in the interview?

I don't think that's the point Nasher. I don't expect he would have.

I think the issue is that he was universally considered worthy of a very high draft pick, and is now considered one of the best players in the league, and BP didn't properly consider him at all. He went pick 3 and we had the first two picks. Not speaking to him wreaks of arrogance and, with the benefit of hindsight, absolute incompetence/negligence.

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,737]

15 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I don't think that's the point Nasher. I don't expect he would have.

I think the issue is that he was universally considered worthy of a very high draft pick, and is now considered one of the best players in the league, and BP didn't properly consider him at all. He went pick 3 and we had the first two picks. Not speaking to him wreaks of arrogance and, with the benefit of hindsight, absolute incompetence/negligence.

 

Nailed it beautifully Ron. 

Then BP left and went to work for another club....

no probs for him

[DemonOX 8,733]

I don't c the point in signing him for another yr and leaving him in the reserves even though his is playing well. 

It frustrates me so I can only imagine how frustrating it is for Trenners. 

Edited June 3, 2017 by DemonOX