This. Any of those players would improve our side significantly. Toumpas can't even improve Casey. He is a massive disappointment.

I think Jesus Hoganshaw would be a bit disappointed that this was the only thing you took from his (edit: sorry, had you confused for someone else) post.

Edited August 31, 20159 yr by Nasher

This. Any of those players would improve our side significantly. Toumpas can't even improve Casey. He is a massive disappointment.

No, not 'this'.

We can't redo the draft, so why bother talking about it?

We took Toumpas, he's our player, he's the one we have to make a decision on now, and that decision has nothing at all to do with Stringer, Wines or Macrae.

I remember the Geelong game pretty well. I was there and I watched the replay 5 times the following week. Every time Toumpas got the ball in that game, he failed to take the first option. From the outside, it was obvious each time what the first option should have been. He just over-thought it and failed to pull the trigger.

Yet those responsible for our list management have offered him two years.

Presumably they see something that you don't.

I must say, as an inexpert observer, I have concerns, but then what would I know?

Toumpas' problems are two fold:

1. Stringer and Wines were taken after him and both are absolute weapons; and

2. He seems to panic/fumble too much.

That said, I suspect he's got the potential to be a very good player - he just hasn't quite developed quite as fast as those around him yet.

I back the likes of Roos, McCartney and Goodwin to get this stuff right.

Hes a keeper

Toumpas's entry into AFL was as bad as Watts, but not as publicised. Like many of our top 10 draft picks he was slotted straight into the team and expected to dominate, I guess like what Wines has done. But he wasn't ready, physically he didn't have a proper first pre-season and he clearly wasn't developing as what they would've liked. But they kept playing him and he kept getting beaten around. Therefore like Watts his confidence was shattered from the very beginning.

If the club thinks they can change and improve his mindset I do believe there is a talented footballer inside him, that said there are times when players are unable to get themselves out of their own heads when at a particular club and a change of environment can help to exorcise those demons.

If the club wants to re-sign him then so be it, and good luck to him for his time in the red and blue.

The funny thing about living in Adelaide is you can't rag on any of their fringe players, they'll back them in to the hilt no matter how bad they are, and I respect that.

The thing about supporting Adelaide is that you get a flag now and then and most years you are at least up and about playing finals - you don't go 50 years of darkness and the last decade of pure embarassment and torture. You don't have to watch as administrations, coaches and players waltz through the club and each fail spectacularly, making your life a misery for countless consecutive decades. In Adelaide, you get to go to the ground on a Saturday arvo and have a nice day at the footy with your mates and your family. The Dees have completely stripped us of that pleasure, in a way no Crows supporter could ever understand. I would like to see the demeanor of those unwashed cretins if you gave them the decade we've just had. I don't blame any supporter/barracker of this club for being fed up and demanding MORE from those involved with it. If this means having a grievance at yet another draft pick that has failed to deliver, and has somehow had his contract extended anyway, then I respect their right to be annoyed. I also understand that the blame goes to our recruitment and development and not just the player. I also understand that nobody is suggesting that they don't like Toumpas personally, and the human being that he is has sweet FA to do with it.

Re-signing Toumpas is logical.

At the end of the season Bail, Fitzpatrick, M.Jones, Riley, Jamar, McKenzie, Terlich will most probably go. That's 7 spots to fill with VDB to be elevated. Howe and Garland may leave 2 more spots.

If Toumpas were not re-signed, his replacement pick would be in the 80-100+ range. In last years draft only 2 players were taken with picks over 80, across every club!

What would be the better option? A pick at that range in a weak draft or a kid who has been injured for a substantial part of his 2 years at the club?

Yet those responsible for our list management have offered him two years.

Presumably they see something that you don't.

I must say, as an inexpert observer, I have concerns, but then what would I know?

Well, I also thought he was terrific against the Saints and the Bulldogs. Particularly, the second half against the Dogs.

Look at all our players who have been good in the last few years, all are in and under players due to the wonderful style of play we implement.

Toumpas and the like will benefit when we play a more attacking game.

In saying that, he does tackle well but if we get the ball to him in a bit of space regularly he will be a much better player.

I see him playing a role like Montagna does at the saints.

Toumpas's entry into AFL was as bad as Watts, but not as publicised. Like many of our top 10 draft picks he was slotted straight into the team and expected to dominate, I guess like what Wines has done. But he wasn't ready, physically he didn't have a proper first pre-season and he clearly wasn't developing as what they would've liked. But they kept playing him and he kept getting beaten around. Therefore like Watts his confidence was shattered from the very beginning.

If the club thinks they can change and improve his mindset I do believe there is a talented footballer inside him, that said there are times when players are unable to get themselves out of their own heads when at a particular club and a change of environment can help to exorcise those demons.

If the club wants to re-sign him then so be it, and good luck to him for his time in the red and blue.

Ollie Wines case scenario is exactly the opposite. So our crap culture is to blame then??

Our game style doesn't suit Toumpas...

Name any on our list that are suited to this game style!!?

Ollie Wines case scenario is exactly the opposite. So our crap culture is to blame then??

Actually don't know what you're asking. Ollie Wines was ready to go in every respect; physically, mentally, and football ability. Toumpas wasn't, but we played him anyway because that was the policy at the time and clearly it was the opinion of the coaches he could develop himself through the times of being beaten and not playing all that well. It didn't work out that way and now we have someone with talent to burn but can't seem to break into the 22.

I'm not sure what you're point about the "Ollie Wines case scenario is exactly the opposite". We chose Toumpas over Wines, that's fine, my point is that Jimmy's introduction to AFL was poorly handled and I believe has caused him to have low confidence at times. So if the club is offering him another contact then they are clearly of the opinion that they can extract what they need out of him and get him past his confidence issues. If that's the case I am in full support of it.

No, not 'this'.

We can't redo the draft, so why bother talking about it?

We took Toumpas, he's our player, he's the one we have to make a decision on now, and that decision has nothing at all to do with Stringer, Wines or Macrae.

Spot on. It's done.

You have to treat Toumpas on merit and merit alone. If his spot -- his contract -- would be better off in the hands of someone else, so be it. But at 22 next year, 27 games and recruited with the hopes of becoming an A-grade player, he deserves another shot IMO. Or, the club can try their hand with offcuts from elsewhere instead ??

Name any on our list that are suited to this game style!!?

Jones, AVB, Viney, and Brayshaw could start the list.

Those who aren't yet, (as our real gamestyle has only been seen a few times this year and will be quick and attacking, we just don't have the skill to pull it off), Toump, Salem, Watts, Vince, Hogan, and Lamumba.

Not sure that Viney was at fault either. If he was jogging as you say, then Michie was literally walking. For a player who came on as sub and should have been fresh, his effort was pathetic. Viney actually runs past Michie in order to get to Steven.

Blaming Toumpas was wrong on this occasion.

Go back and watch it again. Michie was THE ONLY MFC player that had the nous to go deep into the back line after we hit the front. Cross came on after the ball came back to the centre and told him to get back to the centre. He had to run back to the centre and then took up his position on the umpire's side of the bounce where he always lines up. Even the commentators queried Cross's instructions to Michie. He had probably run flat out from full back to the wing and then crossed the other side, where the ball went from the bounce, to even get close to where they got the ball into their forward line. The play was already past him and he had no chance of contesting. The TV foreshortens perspective and players can often appear closer to the action than they are. If you ask me the bounce played right into their hands, but players, particularly Cross should have been aware of the situation and flooded back.

Jones, AVB, Viney, and Brayshaw could start the list.

Those who aren't yet, (as our real gamestyle has only been seen a few times this year and will be quick and attacking, we just don't have the skill to pull it off), Toump, Salem, Watts, Vince, Hogan, and Lamumba.

Chris, don't argue with Picket on anything to do with Toumpas. Why? Think of yourself as Sisyphus, and you'll get the idea.

Rubbish. Our game will be based on moving the ball quickly from half back through the corridor or the wings. We need blokes who can kick it. Toumpas can. When Goodwin's more attacking game plan comes into things blokes like Jimmy, who can hit a target, will be vital.

Jimmy can kick it allright just not when under any pressure I would pass

Chris, don't argue with Picket on anything to do with Toumpas. Why? Think of yourself as Sisyphus, and you'll get the idea.

Perhaps he prefers this version of the Sisyphus story......

Toumpas' problems are two fold:

1. Stringer and Wines were taken after him and both are absolute weapons; and

2. He seems to panic/fumble too much.

That said, I suspect he's got the potential to be a very good player - he just hasn't quite developed quite as fast as those around him yet.

I back the likes of Roos, McCartney and Goodwin to get this stuff right.

Number 1 isn't Toumpas' problem at all.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hairdont-chris-masten-showing-he-cando-20120719-22bv4.html

"On the field, the one-time star junior has struggled with disposal, consistency and injuries to a point his many detractors have wondered if he could ever play well enough, often enough, to warrant being selected with a [high] draft pick."

Toumpas has time and could turn the corner, just like Masten has.

Number 1 isn't Toumpas' problem at all.

It seems to be the problem of many posters on here, not Jimmy.

It seems to be the problem of many posters on here, not Jimmy.

I suspect it weighs on Jim.

He appears to take his performance ( or lack of it ) very seriously.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hairdont-chris-masten-showing-he-cando-20120719-22bv4.html

"On the field, the one-time star junior has struggled with disposal, consistency and injuries to a point his many detractors have wondered if he could ever play well enough, often enough, to warrant being selected with a [high] draft pick."

Toumpas has time and could turn the corner, just like Masten has.

Different players, but that's a very good analogy.

Actually don't know what you're asking. Ollie Wines was ready to go in every respect; physically, mentally, and football ability. Toumpas wasn't, but we played him anyway because that was the policy at the time and clearly it was the opinion of the coaches he could develop himself through the times of being beaten and not playing all that well. It didn't work out that way and now we have someone with talent to burn but can't seem to break into the 22.

I'm not sure what you're point about the "Ollie Wines case scenario is exactly the opposite". We chose Toumpas over Wines, that's fine, my point is that Jimmy's introduction to AFL was poorly handled and I believe has caused him to have low confidence at times. So if the club is offering him another contact then they are clearly of the opinion that they can extract what they need out of him and get him past his confidence issues. If that's the case I am in full support of it.

Precisely my point

A) We picked a guy who clearly was not ready

B) Why did we pick a guy who clearly was not ready