Let's stop with the excuses for Watts. He shat himself as usual and didn't want to dive and take it on the chest because he didn't know if someone could be behind him and clean him up.

He played a very good game. But cost us a 2 goal swing by not putting his body on the line.

The coaches have presumably tried everything by now and he's slowly improving his ground balls and tackles so maybe there's hope that one day he holds a higher percentage of marks when under physical pressure.

The culture of the club is changing. Watts is probably performing as well as ever this year with most aspects of his game and the other players aren't treading with egg shells around him so much. He's part of the team and we've started to see Roos, Jones and McDonald be more honest with the media about Jack. Hopefully the media are seeing his good form as well as his bloopers and aren't so focussed on them but that's a lot to ask.

rubbish grrm. it wasn't a situation for shatting ones self. no danger there. and i'm not a watt's apologist

he either misjudged the fall of the ball or the ball was floating in the flukey wind

at the same end and in the goal square there was a mark to elliot from behind when initially he was out of position. the melb players were caught too far under. watch the replay. the ball was definitely affected by the wind.

I thought Watts was really trying hard and attempting to respond to criticisms. That he is applying himself is a positive. Still needs a VVS Laxman moment to finally turn his career.

The fact that we're discussing whether or not somebody decided to have a crack is a problem in itself.

Sue the glass has been half empty for the best part of a decade and no amount of saying it is half full will win games.

In the end you win games or you don't we consistently don't and there is always a bloody excuse.

Like Cloke kicking straight for the first time in aeons

It is equally true that we gifted him two goals.

We lost this game because of poor performance by a number of players and that is a recurring theme.

We are 3 and 6 about the same as last year at this point.

I reckon Old Dee is warming this season. The 5 word posts are getting a bit longer and we now are occasionally blessed with these longer more explanatory posts which elaborate on the often accurate 5 word proclamations.

I do not like losing one bit, but I walked away as happy as I could be after a loss. We looked gone twice and rallied to get back in front. Last year we would have rolled over at 5 goals down. We did make some shocking errors that cost us the game, but we are making far less errors than last year. We are slowly becoming enjoyable and entertaining to watch. Our clearance work is getting much better and will continue to improve.

Gus n Hoges are the most exciting kids I can remember in 20 years, Petracca could be just as good!

One more season ending clean out and we will be back in business.

The fact that we're discussing whether or not somebody decided to have a crack is a problem in itself.

No it's not, it's just a bunch of people who see only what they want to see in Watts. That effort was far from the 'worst play of the day' and wasn't close to as soft as some say it was. It was a mistake, sure, but in the scheme of mistakes made by MFC players on the day it doesn't even rank top 10.

Our effort yesterday was fantastic, from all 22 (Newton started really well but faded as the game wore on). There was nothing to worry about from a 'having a crack' perspective.

Right in front of me bb

It was coming over his head.

At the time I thought he lost sight of it.

Unlike others I thought it was lost sight rather than lack of effort and gods knows I have not been big fan

Like the Dogs game I thought he was very good yesterday

I'm usually on your wavelength old dee but not with this.

'I know the ball is up there somewhere but I'm not sure where. I won't put both my arms out because I have a better chance of getting it with one hand'.

I think he was lazy, not stupid.

One more season ending clean out and we will be back in business.

Yes it feels that way. No doubt we will have a couple more shockers this year but I bet we will pull out some ripping wins in the 2nd half of the season (and this Sunday)

I'm usually on your wavelength old dee but not with this.

'I know the ball is up there somewhere but I'm not sure where. I won't put both my arms out because I have a better chance of getting it with one hand'.

I think he was lazy, not stupid.

Oh please!

This is both lazy AND stupid.

I thought Watts was really trying hard and attempting to respond to criticisms. That he is applying himself is a positive. Still needs a VVS Laxman moment to finally turn his career.

Laxman was a beautiful stroke maker with perfect timing. Jack is a beautiful kick as shown by his long, penetrating kicks to a teammate. A very good analogy.

Laxman was a beautiful stroke maker with perfect timing. Jack is a beautiful kick as shown by his long, penetrating kicks to a teammate. A very good analogy.

Laxman at his absolute peak sits alongside Mark Waugh as the finest stroke maker I've seen. Sublime.

Then don't say we were stiff we were not.

We made a number of bad errors and lost the game nothing stiff about it.

We would have been stiff if we had a decison go against us in the last couple of minutes and lost by less than a goal.

Why do you want to deign the facts ?

I believe we should have won the game, due to our stastical dominance (TBH, I thought we'd run over the top of them in the last). However, we didn't deserve to win, due to our ridiculous errors.

I agree with that CB but the score board says we still don't win.

some of us actually enjoy the game, more than or even regardless of the scoreboard.

It is more fun, OD. Love the game, love seeing our players do good things in the game. if it adds up to a winning score, that's even better.

Besides which, you have to agree, I imagine, that a player like Cloke always has the potential to pull one of wherever, and when he does the other team is going to be unlucky. Lots of other things in the game, sure, and nothing beats something like Hawthorn winning what is now known as Ablett's Grand Final - despite Cloke, we still might have won - yet, for all that, it's still known as Ablett's Grand Final. I think the collective memory honours extraordinary play higher than it does wins. (A bit like the question 'did Abraham Lincoln deliver a balanced budget?' - answer: 'wouldn't know - he abolished slavery".) Robbie Flower and Jimmy Stynes decorate our header. Over-focusing on the scoreboard may be causing you to miss some of what's going on on the ground - missing the main thing we were actually paying for when we paid the price of admission.

Watching the replay and the game I am sure that Jeff Garlett's second goal was absolutely brilliant. The commentators said that he fell over. I don't think he did, I think he deliberately propped to elude the guy on his hammer. What do others think?

Watching the replay and the game I am sure that Jeff Garlett's second goal was absolutely brilliant. The commentators said that he fell over. I don't think he did, I think he deliberately propped to elude the guy on his hammer. What do others think?

Most definitely, BM. Channel 7 commentators are notoriously out of touch with the game. Was Luke Darcy one of the commentators? One of the absolute worst. He doesn't have a clue.

Meanwhile, I walked away from the ground yesterday confused and extremely disappointed. We didn't turn up to play in the first quarter and then completely stopped in the last, when we had the momentum going into the fourth.

Let's make no mistake, Pendlebury was playing injured, Swan is a shadow of his former self and taking Beams out of that line up severely compromises the depth their midfield once possessed. They'll struggle to play finals and if they do, they'll be bundled out in the first round.

They are an ordinary side, but brought almost finals like pressure in the first term and we were inexplicably, given the build up and circumstances surrounding Danners, unprepared.

The best part for me was the dominance of our midfield - a long time since that has happened. I think a lot of credit for that must go to big Maxxy. Vince and Jones were superb and Viney, Cross and Brayshaw offered great support.

I think Tyson will come back in next week better for his rest, so I believe there was a lot of good to be taken from the game.

Won the clearances.

47 Inside 50s.

220+ Uncontested Possessions.

Kicked 6 goals in about 15 mins from the end of the first to half way through the second.

Beating a goods midfield in clearances, getting near parity on I50s, getting league average UPs, and kicking goals in a hurry.

That would not have occurred in one game against a good team for half a decade.

Watching the replay and the game I am sure that Jeff Garlett's second goal was absolutely brilliant. The commentators said that he fell over. I don't think he did, I think he deliberately propped to elude the guy on his hammer. What do others think?

I agree Bob, it was great positioning of his body and he knew exactly what he was doing.

As the game wore on and we kept kicking it to Oxley why didn't some one take the game on run 20 metres and kick it over Oxley for Garlett to run on to.

Garlett was on his bike many times ready to do that but we kept kicking it to Oxley

On the replay, I watched last night for clarity, Oxley kept marking the ball in amongst Melbourne players

Our players didn't work hard enough at those contests, simple as that, and made it easy for him

Most definitely, BM. Channel 7 commentators are notoriously out of touch with the game. Was Luke Darcy one of the commentators? One of the absolute worst. He doesn't have a clue.

Luke Darcy is a Tool of the AFL absolute [censored]

Watching the replay and the game I am sure that Jeff Garlett's second goal was absolutely brilliant. The commentators said that he fell over. I don't think he did, I think he deliberately propped to elude the guy on his hammer. What do others think?

yes that was the real brilliance of that goal, dropping to let the other guy go past. Very clever, very intuitive. Was great footy.

I reckon Newton needs some more scrutiny. I was stoked we got him from Port and really rated his natural footy ability - especially ball winning. When he has the ball in space and uses his left foot he is very effective but currently this is about once a game. Apart from this he really has offered nothing. I agree with posters above that he is so easily bumped off the ball and if people think Toumpas' defensive positioning is bad at times, Newton is in another league altogether. I wonder if he is struggling with Roos' demands for two-way running or is a natural attacking player who finds team defence difficult. Thoughts?

It was one of the few times we have won the midfield against a quality opposition. That shows how important it is because we 'should have' won the game (ie: if we reduce our mistakes and didn't gift them at least 5 goals)

We had a real crack. Tackling was hard and smart (no Matt Jones tumbling into someone's back etc)

Some incredibly dumb mistakes.

The wrong free against TMac for OOF was a terrible blow when we had kicked 5 in a row. A few brain fades that should reduce with time playing at this kind of level.

V poor effort from the coaching box. Starting to get a little concerned about the consultant on game day and certainly don't like the deflection about the loose man set up. We have let this happen all year and its a momentum killer. We aren't good enough or smart enough yet to pick our way through a crowded fwd line. Many of our goals were fast break type goals when we had space. Same for the Pies. Having the ball come back immediately and shoot up the other end is pretty demoralizing after you have been piling the pressure on.

Probably the best game I have seen Gawn play (which isn't much) and it was obvious how much grunt Viney adds to our midfield set up. And I just love Gus. Every time he made a mistake or got beaten he involved himself in the next play and atoned. That is a great sign of a competitor.

And Bernie, Cross and NJones were simply immense. Absolute warriors.

It was one of the few times we have won the midfield against a quality opposition. That shows how important it is because we 'should have' won the game (ie: if we reduce our mistakes and didn't gift them at least 5 goals)

We had a real crack. Tackling was hard and smart (no Matt Jones tumbling into someone's back etc)

Some incredibly dumb mistakes.

The wrong free against TMac for OOF was a terrible blow when we had kicked 5 in a row. A few brain fades that should reduce with time playing at this kind of level.

V poor effort from the coaching box. Starting to get a little concerned about the consultant on game day and certainly don't like the deflection about the loose man set up. We have let this happen all year and its a momentum killer. We aren't good enough or smart enough yet to pick our way through a crowded fwd line. Many of our goals were fast break type goals when we had space. Same for the Pies. Having the ball come back immediately and shoot up the other end is pretty demoralizing after you have been piling the pressure on.

Probably the best game I have seen Gawn play (which isn't much) and it was obvious how much grunt Viney adds to our midfield set up. And I just love Gus. Every time he made a mistake or got beaten he involved himself in the next play and atoned. That is a great sign of a competitor.

And Bernie, Cross and NJones were simply immense. Absolute warriors.

Pity we did not have three more like them we would have won.

Most definitely, BM. Channel 7 commentators are notoriously out of touch with the game. Was Luke Darcy one of the commentators? One of the absolute worst. He doesn't have a clue.

He popped up too quick for it to be an accident. Footy smarts.

Nothing on Channel 7 about him falling, not sure what commentary Bobby is referring to.