Yes we've secured a lot of "miss" in the past. We've picked Watts and missed Natanui, picked Toumpas and missed Wines, etc, etc.

I thought it was pretty well understood that NikNat was going back to Perth once his first contract was done regardless. He was never a realistic option for the first pick unless you think the club would have been able to persuade him to stay because we were so successful and attractive as a workplace?

What's going to happen with Grimes at the end of the season? One year left to run on his contract, but doesn't seem to be getting much of a look-in at the moment. Should we trade him or hang on to him, and if we trade him, what is he worth?

I really hope that he succeeds regardless of where he's playing next year. He's done a lot for this club that has hurt him as a footballer and he is just another product of the poor development that has plagued Melbourne.

If the end of year chat doesn't go well with the coach he may ask to be traded. Who would take him and why?

If the end of year chat doesn't go well with the coach he may ask to be traded. Who would take him and why?

richmond might be interested. his brother is there and doing reasonably well. of course you've gut to get past their dr

I thought it was pretty well understood that NikNat was going back to Perth once his first contract was done regardless. He was never a realistic option for the first pick unless you think the club would have been able to persuade him to stay because we were so successful and attractive as a workplace?

It's yesterday's argument anyway. I really doubt we'd be that much better off if we had NicNat instead of Watts. Both are good players with flaws that will prevent them from reaching the top shelf.

Both players are a case study in how elite attributes don't necessarily translate in to an elite player, and that even very early draft picks are still just a lottery, no matter how sure a thing you think the player is.

It's yesterday's argument anyway. I really doubt we'd be that much better off if we had NicNat instead of Watts. Both are good players with flaws that will prevent them from reaching the top shelf.

Both players are a case study in how elite attributes don't necessarily translate in to an elite player, and that even very early draft picks are still just a lottery, no matter how sure a thing you think the player is.

Nic Nat is already elite

And he's still only 25.

Nic Nat is already elite

And he's still only 25.

No he's not. Not yet. Good tap ruck, athletic, good with 1%ers. Averaging just over 1 mark this year and 12 disp. He's improved his ruck work dramatically, but he's not elite.

Nic Nat is already elite

And he's still only 25.

Only 25?

What players has become elite after the age of 25?

No he's not. Not yet. Good tap ruck, athletic, good with 1%ers. Averaging just over 1 mark this year and 12 disp. He's improved his ruck work dramatically, but he's not elite.

People often talk about how stats can be meaningless and I think this is one of these instances. There is much more Nic Nat does that isn't captured by your run of the mill 'disposals, hit-outs, marks' etc statistics. Perhaps our opinions differ, which is fine, discussion is what a footy forum is for. But after watching most West Coast games this year I can comfortably say that Nic Nat is the 2nd best ruck in the comp behind only Goldstein. He is elite at what he does.

Only 25?

What players has become elite after the age of 25?

I might be misunderstanding, but if you think players peak at 25 then you are mistaken.

People often talk about how stats can be meaningless and I think this is one of these instances. There is much more Nic Nat does tbyhat isn't captured your run of the mill 'disposals, hit-outs, marks' etc statistics. Perhaps our opinions differ, which is fine, discussion is what a footy forum is for. But after watching most West Coast games this year I can comfortably say that Nic Nat is the 2nd best ruck in the comp behind only Goldstein. He is elite at what he does.

I might be misunderstanding, but if you think players peak at 25 then you are mistaken.

Max is already better.

Max is already better.

Yes he is. And he leads the MFC in contested marks per game... yes, ahead of even Jesse

Gawn is not better than Nik Nat. Ridiculous. Nik Nat is however a flawed player, but his tap work this year has been excellent. Far more consistent than Gawn too.

Nic Nat is already elite

And he's still only 25.

'Elite'

No way is he elite. He's a decent tap ruckman that's about it. Not sure what your referring to when you say he does more than what is captured in your 'run of the mill disposals' considering everything is captured.

He averages one mark, 12 disposals (at 62%), 33 hitouts, 4 score involvements, 4 tackles.

Gawn averages five marks, 15 disposals (75%), 40 hitouts, 5 score involvements, 2 tackles.

I'm not saying Gawn is better but Nic Nat is far from being elite.

Gawn has a long way to go but I believe he will be a better footballer than Nic Nat.

Edited July 21, 201510 yr by Ethan Tremblay

Nic Nat has being serving his on ballers for a few years now.

Gawn has bee serving his on ballers for a few games......in perspective

Unsure if your post is in reply to mine or not willmoy.

My point was that Gawn is or at least will be a better footballer than Nic Nat, I'm not just talking exclusively about tapping the ball.

Nic Nat is 25 and played 123 games, Gawn is 23 and played 23 games. 100 games and 2 years age gap is a lot especially when talking about ruckmen. I hope Gawn continues his development because I'm more excited by him than Nic Nat.

Edited July 21, 201510 yr by Ethan Tremblay

Another Watts v Naitanui thread! Yay!

Another Watts v Naitanui thread! Yay!

Looks like Watts has now morphed into Gawn for the purpose of recent posts...

Happy to see both NikNat and Watts playing good footy for their clubs.

Let Max be Max...

Meanwhile Ollie Wines getting BOGs while Jimmy is struggling in the VFL

We would be lucky to get a 3rd rounder for Jimmy right now, his hips are hung and he runs around like a headless chook and doesn't check his man at contests.

Meanwhile Ollie Wines getting BOGs while Jimmy is struggling in the VFL

We would be lucky to get a 3rd rounder for Jimmy right now, his hips are hung and he runs around like a headless chook and doesn't check his man at contests.

Well either Viney or Neeld are to blame for that monumental blunder. Who overruled who? As i have heard it both ways. Did Neeld overrule Viney, or was it the other way around?

Well either Viney or Neeld are to blame for that monumental blunder. Who overruled who? As i have heard it both ways. Did Neeld overrule Viney, or was it the other way around?

Would be amusing if the truth revealed that both of them rated Toumpas higher than Wines.

Looks like Watts has now morphed into Gawn for the purpose of recent posts...

Happy to see both NikNat and Watts playing good footy for their clubs.

Let Max be Max...

Ruckmen from different drafts were being compared, more so to discuss the development and coming along of Gawn. A poster suggested NicNat to be elite, Gawns stats were simply compared with his to discuss if NicNat was really elite.

The Watts v Nicnat debate is a different issue, comparing picks 1 and 2 from the same draft.

All player comparisons will cease from here mein fuhrer!

Edited July 21, 201510 yr by Ethan Tremblay

Would be amusing if the truth revealed that both of them rated Toumpas higher than Wines.

Most people did. For most of the draft year, Toumpas seemed to be a clear #2 pick, but GWS overlooked him in favour of O'Rourke and Plowman. Most people on here went crazy with excitement when it emerged that he would be available at our selection, and (for the most part) it's just Demonland's hindsight heroes who say they would've picked Wines over Toumpas.

See Knightmare's summary from just after the draft:

#4 Melbourne (Compensation Pick) – Jimmy Toumpas (SA – Mid/Def)

Height: 183cm, Weight: 77kg, DOB: 02/01/1994

Recruited from: Woodville West Torrens

Style: Luke Hodge

Player comparison:

Range: 2-5

Profile: Really damaging player with some versatility. Can take over and influence games as well as just about anyone in this draft and throughout the u18 champs for bursts really imposed himself on games which was impressive. Skill level excellent by both hand and foot, has that combination of hurt factor with the penetrating kick he has and clean ball use that will make him a big time weapon. Very capable of unloading for long goals. Consistently good decision maker. High level athlete and has that combination of explosive speed and agility that will make him desirable as well as in game work rate. Endurance excellent. Also has shown very early on that he can lift for the big games which is I strongly believe is something that he will take with him to AFL level. Can play as a midfielder, forward or back which is a big advantage but long term will no doubt develop into a midfielder. Has the ability to play both as an inside and outside midfielder. One important note with Toumpas is that throughout the u18 champs he was playing with hip problems so to play through injury and influence games in the way he did was very impressive.

Unfortunately for Toumpas, he just hasn't been able to transfer these abilities that Knightmare raved about to AFL level. We are yet to see his speed, long goals, or consistently good decision making. I would like to give him another couple of years on the list, however would not be at all surprised if Roos & Co decided to cut our losses and trade him.

Style - Luke Hodge?

If i was to pick one player in the comp that doesn't resemble Luke Hodge it'd be Jimmy Toumpas.

Edited July 21, 201510 yr by Matt Demon

I thought it was pretty well understood that NikNat was going back to Perth once his first contract was done regardless. He was never a realistic option for the first pick unless you think the club would have been able to persuade him to stay because we were so successful and attractive as a workplace?

It was a joke about a typographical error. Don't take things so literally. Also I think you would agree we have taken MANY of the wrong high draft picks over the last 10-15 years. Gee Demonlanders are picky!

No he's not. Not yet. Good tap ruck, athletic, good with 1%ers. Averaging just over 1 mark this year and 12 disp. He's improved his ruck work dramatically, but he's not elite.

Yes he is. Look at where his team sits on the ladder and he gets a game in that team every week. It's about playing a role in an elite team not just individual stats.

Style - Luke Hodge?

If i was to pick one player in the comp that doesn't resemble Luke Hodge it'd be Jimmy Toumpas.

Ha! Yeah...I admit that the same thought crossed my mind.