THIS GLOOM & DOOM IS RIDICULOUS

[old dee 23,492]

Yep, once they know your a Demons supporter its like they expect you not to want to talk shop.

And I don't

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,212]

I know naming and shaming shouldn't go on too much, but hey, this is an internet footy forum. I'd be interested to hear who people think are "the usual suspects". Because I've heard this line trotted out a bit recently, but no one has been specific.

I know naming and shaming shouldn't go on too much, but hey, this is an internet footy forum. I'd be interested to hear who people think are "the usual suspects". Because I've heard this line trotted out a bit recently, but no one has been specific.

Dawes and Howe can be added to the list of usual suspects.

[old dee 23,492]

Dawes and Howe can be added to the list of usual suspects.

You have my vote

[WhyAlwaysMe 237]

nothing hurts more when you tell a person you barrack for Melbourne and they look at you with a sad, sympathetic look and then nod slowly and say " ohhhh ...you barrack for Melbourne".

No one hates us - they just feel sorry for us.

I'm with you - embarrassment is easy compared with pity.

and when we win 1 in a row they tell us how well we are tracking, when will they hate us? When will people who don't barrack for MFC watch Melb games?

[old dee 23,492]

and when we win 1 in a row they tell us how well we are tracking, when will they hate us? When will people who don't barrack for MFC watch Melb games?

With a little luck around 2018/9

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,212]

You have my vote

Disclaimer: I did say I wouldn't comment on Watts/Grimes until the end of the season. I'm going to have to go back on that for the purpose of this thread. There's no point commenting on their match day performances because there's nothing else that can be said.

The thing for me Old Dee is, many posters on here have an attachment to certain players, that's fine so do I. But if you use Frawley as an example, once the dust has settled people's mindset changed, he's gone and look what we got in return. We know we can't continue to serve up efforts like last week. In my opinion we are two trade/draft periods away from fixing our list. The catch is and I mentioned this on a different thread is, before Roos took over we always had that "we haven't developed them properly" get out of jail card. Now we have an elite coaching group. Footy is more cut throat then it's even been. The 17 other clubs aren't as stupid as we'd like them to be. I keep hearing we should make a play for player A,B or C. Would anyone like to guess how much Dawes/Watts/Grimes/Howe would be on combined. Then compare that to what Frost/Angus/VB/Newton might be on.

If we are to get anything for these four grossly overpaid/underperforming players it has to be this year. Next year we will just get laughed at if there not already laughing now. People need to let go. The coaches have(maybe not on Dawes just yet)Grimes has been in and out of the side, Watts would be the subject of mass discussion from the coaches behind closed doors. If Howe can get 600k from another club then please take it. You could try and ship off Dawes to the Lions or to Carlton if Henderson walks but even that may not work.

JETTA DUNN ?

SALEM TMAC GARLAND

H JONES BRAYSHAW

KENT HOGAN VB

GARLETT FROST PETRACCA

? TYSON VINCE

Traded in/traded in/traded in/traded in

Players to persist with

NEWTON

MICHIE

JKH

PEDO

Players that must go

WATTS

GRIMES

DAWES

HOWE

TOUMPAS

MCKENZIE

M JONES

BAIL

RILEY

TERLICH

Then we've got the ruck department JAMAR/GAWN/FITZY/PENCIL......What a mess.

What's scary is we have the same salary cap as the Hawks and Freo. Put those trades on the table, get them done, free up some cash and make some plays for Blicavs and a couple of mids and were away.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Al's Demons

[jnrmac 19,890]

The reality is that we cannot make big trades for players.Particularly the numbers you are talking about there.

Aside from the fact very few want to come here, there are very few available in any given year. You can't trade your way out of this mess in 1 year.

[old dee 23,492]

The reality is that we cannot make big trades for players.Particularly the numbers you are talking about there.

Aside from the fact very few want to come here, there are very few available in any given year. You can't trade your way out of this mess in 1 year.

Spot on jnr.

This is a five year project that started at the end of 2013.

We are only two trade periods into a task that is min. Five years long.

We are only two fifths into the project.

Sadly a long way to go but that is the reality.

There are no short cuts just hard work and a lot of pain for supporters.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,212]

The reality is that we cannot make big trades for players.Particularly the numbers you are talking about there.

Aside from the fact very few want to come here, there are very few available in any given year. You can't trade your way out of this mess in 1 year.

Agree in part hence I said "two years to fix the list". Yes the players that need to go don't hold a lot of trade value do they. By moving on the dead wood we would at least be able to free up the cash to make an offer all being it may be unsuccessful. Realistically I don't think Dawes is going anywhere but would not be so sure about the other three. Wasn't Roos in touch with Frost early in the piece last year. I would like to think the club has identified what they consider to be realistic targets.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,212]

Spot on jnr.

This is a five year project that started at the end of 2013.

We are only two trade periods into a task that is min. Five years long.

We are only two fifths into the project.

Sadly a long way to go but that is the reality.

There are no short cuts just hard work and a lot of pain for supporters.

I think four years OD, and I say that because at our current average of moving on 11 players a year, if you look at players out of contract 2015/16 that's where the problems lie. If we move on certain players this year then 4, if not then 5.

[Demon Dynasty 17,092]

Disclaimer: I did say I wouldn't comment on Watts/Grimes until the end of the season. I'm going to have to go back on that for the purpose of this thread. There's no point commenting on their match day performances because there's nothing else that can be said.

The thing for me Old Dee is, many posters on here have an attachment to certain players, that's fine so do I. But if you use Frawley as an example, once the dust has settled people's mindset changed, he's gone and look what we got in return. We know we can't continue to serve up efforts like last week. In my opinion we are two trade/draft periods away from fixing our list. The catch is and I mentioned this on a different thread is, before Roos took over we always had that "we haven't developed them properly" get out of jail card. Now we have an elite coaching group. Footy is more cut throat then it's even been. The 17 other clubs aren't as stupid as we'd like them to be. I keep hearing we should make a play for player A,B or C. Would anyone like to guess how much Dawes/Watts/Grimes/Howe would be on combined. Then compare that to what Frost/Angus/VB/Newton might be on.

If we are to get anything for these four grossly overpaid/underperforming players it has to be this year. Next year we will just get laughed at if there not already laughing now. People need to let go. The coaches have(maybe not on Dawes just yet)Grimes has been in and out of the side, Watts would be the subject of mass discussion from the coaches behind closed doors. If Howe can get 600k from another club then please take it. You could try and ship off Dawes to the Lions or to Carlton if Henderson walks but even that may not work.

JETTA DUNN ?

SALEM TMAC GARLAND

H JONES BRAYSHAW

KENT HOGAN VB

GARLETT FROST PETRACCA

? TYSON VINCE

Traded in/traded in/traded in/traded in

Players to persist with

NEWTON

MICHIE

JKH

PEDO

Players that must go

WATTS

GRIMES

DAWES

HOWE

TOUMPAS

MCKENZIE

M JONES

BAIL

RILEY

TERLICH

Then we've got the ruck department JAMAR/GAWN/FITZY/PENCIL......What a mess.

What's scary is we have the same salary cap as the Hawks and Freo. Put those trades on the table, get them done, free up some cash and make some plays for Blicavs and a couple of mids and were away.

I agree with all that with the exception of Howe. If everything else fails, Including the above plan (and at the MFC that's more than likely), then we at least get one highlight a week shown on TV. If we trade him it's more than likely no one will even know we're still in the comp!!!

[Bitter but optimistic 22,065]

And I don't

I always put one those stickers they give you on the front of my diary.

If this shi te continues I'll cease that practice.

In fact if this sh ite continues I'll no longer get the stickers!

[Demon Dynasty 17,092]

Thats not such a bad reference Rusty.

Would do no harm for our coach and players to look at this together.

While times and the game have changed some things are continuous

Tenacity, Confidence, Dynamic, Powerful, Pressure, Commitment, Hard Work

Team wanted to win, Hearts and mind on the job

Pride for self coach crowd

Support teammates, happy worthy winners

The joy and good feelings will last for 50 years or immortality

Got to start somewhere.

thx D

I doubt this type of "buy in a premiership team" will ever be repeated again within Vic clubs although at this very moment we may be seeing it unfold, courtesy of the AFL, at GWS or they might go very close to it.

If nothing else it is at least a very inspirational clip scattered with very memorable moments as most premierships no doubt would be

[CBDees 3,165]

Disclaimer: I did say I wouldn't comment on Watts/Grimes until the end of the season. I'm going to have to go back on that for the purpose of this thread. There's no point commenting on their match day performances because there's nothing else that can be said.

The thing for me Old Dee is, many posters on here have an attachment to certain players, that's fine so do I. But if you use Frawley as an example, once the dust has settled people's mindset changed, he's gone and look what we got in return. We know we can't continue to serve up efforts like last week. In my opinion we are two trade/draft periods away from fixing our list. The catch is and I mentioned this on a different thread is, before Roos took over we always had that "we haven't developed them properly" get out of jail card. Now we have an elite coaching group. Footy is more cut throat then it's even been. The 17 other clubs aren't as stupid as we'd like them to be. I keep hearing we should make a play for player A,B or C. Would anyone like to guess how much Dawes/Watts/Grimes/Howe would be on combined. Then compare that to what Frost/Angus/VB/Newton might be on.

If we are to get anything for these four grossly overpaid/underperforming players it has to be this year. Next year we will just get laughed at if there not already laughing now. People need to let go. The coaches have(maybe not on Dawes just yet)Grimes has been in and out of the side, Watts would be the subject of mass discussion from the coaches behind closed doors. If Howe can get 600k from another club then please take it. You could try and ship off Dawes to the Lions or to Carlton if Henderson walks but even that may not work.

JETTA DUNN ?

SALEM TMAC GARLAND

H JONES BRAYSHAW

KENT HOGAN VB

GARLETT FROST PETRACCA

? TYSON VINCE

Traded in/traded in/traded in/traded in

Players to persist with

NEWTON

MICHIE

JKH

PEDO

Players that must go

WATTS

GRIMES

DAWES

HOWE

TOUMPAS

MCKENZIE

M JONES

BAIL

RILEY

TERLICH

Then we've got the ruck department JAMAR/GAWN/FITZY/PENCIL......What a mess.

What's scary is we have the same salary cap as the Hawks and Freo. Put those trades on the table, get them done, free up some cash and make some plays for Blicavs and a couple of mids and were away.

It would be a massive mistake to get rid of Watts, Toumpas, Grimes, Howe, Riley and Fitzpatrick. Together with Spencil (and Matt Jones) they played a massive part in our win on Sunday!

[old dee 23,492]

It would be a massive mistake to get rid of Watts, Toumpas, Grimes, Howe, Riley and Fitzpatrick. Together with Spencil (and Matt Jones) they played a massive part in our win on Sunday!

Dont get too far ahead of yourself CBDees

It was one win against the Dogs who are in a similar boat to ourselves.

Lets check again at the break after Games against the Power, Pies and Cats.

[CBDees 3,165]

Dont get too far ahead of yourself CBDees

It was one win against the Dogs who are in a similar boat to ourselves.

Lets check again at the break after Games against the Power, Pies and Cats.

OD I predict that we will beat both Port and the Pies (though less sure against the Cats). I also suspect that most of the key contributors from Sunday will play a big part in the upcoming games!

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,212]

You can't have some of your highest earners playing in the VFL.

Since when does one game define a career after years of sub standard performances.

[dpositive 1,649]

It would be a massive mistake to get rid of Watts, Toumpas, Grimes, Howe, Riley and Fitzpatrick. Together with Spencil (and Matt Jones) they played a massive part in our win on Sunday!

Not just that reason

Watts has skill and class he shoe

Was that every game he plays, he needs to be recognised for this and used not expected to be a new Jonathan brown.

Howe is a leaper lynch , needs to be recognised as such and utilised

Toumpas is a kid getting into the swing of the game at this level after injury. He has Williams like vision and movement which hopefully e

Will flourish

Fitzpatrick is big and fast

Riley seems fearless

I'm really just making this up. We have them, they have skills, we need a mixture of attributes in the team these guys add to the mix and need to be coached and used at the right time against the right opposition, NOW. I think Roos probably gets it. We can't win em all but we can compete. These guys are really part of that now. We can do it NOWA there is no need to look 4 or5 years on

[demon3165 2,569]

Everyone used to complain about the club not developing our players and now this is the first real season in the development of the players and everyone expects all the players to be top notch, it takes time but with Macca and co there we should see some improvement even with likes of players that some people to get rid of, so lets give some of them a go instead of bagging them, if by the end of the year they show no improvement the club will make the call on them.

Edited May 25, 2015 by demon3165

[CBDees 3,165]

Not just that reason

Watts has skill and class he shoe

Was that every game he plays, he needs to be recognised for this and used not expected to be a new Jonathan brown.

Howe is a leaper lynch , needs to be recognised as such and utilised

Toumpas is a kid getting into the swing of the game at this level after injury. He has Williams like vision and movement which hopefully e

Will flourish

Fitzpatrick is big and fast

Riley seems fearless

I'm really just making this up. We have them, they have skills, we need a mixture of attributes in the team these guys add to the mix and need to be coached and used at the right time against the right opposition, NOW. I think Roos probably gets it. We can't win em all but we can compete. These guys are really part of that now. We can do it NOWA there is no need to look 4 or5 years on

I am on your side on this DP. ADs post was one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read. The whole idea of rating Michie ahead of Watts, Toumpas, Howe and Fitzy suggests that he either doesn't watch our games very closely or just has no judgement!

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,212]

I am on your side on this DP. ADs post was one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read. The whole idea of rating Michie ahead of Watts, Toumpas, Howe and Fitzy suggests that he either doesn't watch our games very closely or just has no judgement!

Players like Pendlebry/Rioli/L Jetta all have similar physiques (maybe not as tall) as Watts. Have a look at the way they attack the footy, they're in a different league. Great clubs continually look to improve their list, if trading off any combination of Watts/Howe/DawesToumpas with draft picks netted us a Blicavs and a gun mid it would be hailed as a recruiting masterstroke and those that were traded out would soon be forgotten.

Whilst the win against the Bulldogs was a good one(not many on here had faith) it was against another young up and coming side who are fast coming back to the pack. Only three teams are any chance of winning it this year and as we found out prior to the Bulldogs game we are s long way from competing with them.

But stuff it lets make no trades at years end because our list is full of 1-natural competitors and 2- people who can use the footy.

[old dee 23,492]

Everyone used to complain about the club not developing our players and now this is the first real season in the development of the players and everyone expects all the players to be top notch, it takes time but with Macca and co there we should see some improvement even with likes of players that some people to get rid of, so lets give some of them a go instead of bagging them, if by the end of the year they show no improvement the club will make the call on them.

If we all follow your lead demon3165 there would not be much to talk about.

Demonland would only need to run two days a week.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,212]

On a side note I moved to Sydney five years ago for work and have maintained my membership since. This year is my 13th year as a Redleg member. Last year I managed to attend 8 games in Melbourne, this year I havnt been so lucky being stuck in Sydney. However I have watched five games on TV. My opinions are based on more than one game which according to some defines a career even those with a history of substandard performances.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Al's Demons

[Radar Detector 1,347]

Whilst the win against the Bulldogs was a good one(not many on here had faith) it was against another young up and coming side who are fast coming back to the pack. Only three teams are any chance of winning it this year and as we found out prior to the Bulldogs game we are s long way from competing with them.

And we have played all 3 of them in the first eight rounds. Against other opposition we have gone 3-2 with two interstate losses to GWS and Adelaide who also sit inside the 8 (and who we were leading comprehensively early in each game).

Sometimes we lose the forest for the trees but we are trending up. Players and team are improving but it is incremental and we still lack the midfield to compete with the biggest boys.

As a side note, at this stage last year we were 2-6 having played only one team that ended up finishing in the top 8.

[jnrmac 19,890]

Spot on jnr.

This is a five year project that started at the end of 2013.

We are only two trade periods into a task that is min. Five years long.

We are only two fifths into the project.

Sadly a long way to go but that is the reality.

There are no short cuts just hard work and a lot of pain for supporters.

If you think about it a team that finishes last gets pick 1, 19, 37, 55 etc

A team that finishes 1st gets pick 18, 36, 54 etc

So the last placed team really only gets a single chance to recruit 1 good player more than the top team. If this is a bust like, say Cale Morton, or you draft a Tom Boyd or McCartin that is a longer term prospect, you havent improved your list relatively.

So you have to trade and you have to do it over multiple seasons. You can't as some on his thread seem to think go out and recruit Fyffe, Hannebery and Sheil in a season to turn your team around. It simply can't happen. You have to be operating at every level above the pack - drafting, trading, development etc etc

What Roos and PJ have done in a short space of time is quite remarkable. But they still need a number of seasons before you can call it successful.

And when you consider the GC and GWS concessions it has been ridiculously hard - made harder by the fact we haven't chosen well or developed then etc. Its why we needed a priority pick, why its a good idea and why we should have got one.