we're on the way to that statistic this year too. 105 is bigger than the margin we lost to the Hawks in the GF of 1988 FFS.

No were not, we've been beaten by easily the best 3 teams in the competition. If we're dusted by the Bulldogs by 50 next week, then tee off.

We simply don't have the talent. And by talent I mean athletic talent as well. You can't outrun your opposition if youre not as fast or as naturally aerobic. You can't outmuscle if you're not as naturally strong.

The effort was there, the ability wasn't. Is Roos responsible for bringing in the talent? Nup.

My oh my do we need Viney, Jetta, Kent, Salem... They go, we go. We have no depth.

Edit: And of course Hogan. So we lost our best forward, our best inside mid (on this years form), our best small defender, our best forward pressure, and our best user out of the back half. Who do we have to replace them with?

yes he took over a crap side, but we are still a crap side, the marginal improvement is due to the list improving, the basic requirements to be a consistently competitive side don't exist, Roos is responsible for that.

Maybe, but even Jesus Christ himself would have a hard time fashioning a competitive midfield at Melbourne. We simply don't have the cattle. Roos has gone the trade table twice to try to inject some genuine talent, but we stink.

We are still several players away from having a good list. This was our weakest team for the year and we don't have any other players demanding a spot in the side. That was a drubbing reminiscent of the Neeld days some of our long serving players fell back into patterns that were common in the dark days. Basic skills errors abounded.

Roos suggested they were tired. I hope they can bounce back next week after an eight day break.

It still points to the need for a very aggressive trading period at the end of the season. We need another quality mid, damaging tall forward and a decent ruckman.

IN: Hogan, Viney, Jetta, Jamar, Watts, Harmes

OUT: Dawes, Howe, Spencer, M. Jones, Stretch, Salem (inj)

FB: Garland, Dunn, Jetta

HB: Lumumba, T. McDonald, Toumpas

C: Harmes, Vince, Tyson

HF: Vandenberg, Hogan, Bail

FF: Watts, Pedersen, Garlett

FOLL: Jamar, Cross, N. Jones

INT: Grimes, Michie, Viney

SUB: Brayshaw

EMERG: Gawn, Riley, Stretch

I hope they stick the course with Toumpas. Warrants being dropped, but really think he needs to be given that solid month at it. Brayshaw starting to look a little tired, so maybe a role as the sub would suit. Stretch needs a bit more time as t Casey, he's been given some tough opponents first up.

Would bring Jamar in at least for the next two weeks as we know what we'll get, possibly look to give Gawn a run as number 1 ruck from Queens birthday onwards. Also time to give Harmes a go. Had solid VFL form and he's a good size with pace.

Really hope Hogan, Jetta and Viney are fit...

Maybe, but even Jesus Christ himself would have a hard time fashioning a competitive midfield at Melbourne. We simply don't have the cattle. Roos has gone the trade table twice to try to inject some genuine talent, but we stink.

Have to remember, though, Petracca, Trengove, Viney, now Salem - that's a lot of midfield talent we should have been moulding together. Jones and Tyson don't look too fit either. What we don't have is the fit cattle. Kent and Jetta provide a lot of strength and dash, some competitive power, and they win the ball and link up mid-field-style in their parts of the ground. All of these fitness issues add up - and in time it's likely they will clear up.

Mostly, at the moment the team looks mentally defeated. We begin trying to build up from a long way behind, and then get serially clobbered with injuries - small wonder we're mentally brittle. Against the Hawks we began well, but Hawthorn were full of confidence and we just couldn't hold together mentally ... stopped running, playing like it would work...

Also, MacDonald's comment about teaming together is obviously true - and forced team changes - especially to key playmakers - obviously undermines our attempts to build cohesiveness and trust.

So, we are struggling at the moment, especially playing stronger guys who do play together cohesively, and who are full of confidence already, and even more so playing us. Against top sides, with our team depleted as it is, we are bound to fall apart, and yes, it stinks. We have to just weather it.

When we get our players on the park, or play slightly less outstanding teams, then we can look to see what Roos has been making of the team.

Would like to hear from someone at the game - Matt Jones looked to me to be playing in the barren half forward line, and from my POV from the couch, wasn't that bad. I confess to not watching the last quarter though.

At least one of the babies in the team needs to make way - Stretch had 3 disposals and Brayshaw had 8. Not blaming them, of course, but you can only have so many players in the side who are incapable of heavy lifting and they need to be spared the pressure and scrutiny, and be allowed to develop. Stretch in particular doesn't look ready to me.

We desperately need Viney back this week. If that doesn't happen, next week's side is only going to be weaker in my opinion.

salem is a definite out. viney won't be back. frost or kent either. kennedy-harris unlikely, and jetta hopefully - his head knocks are a massive concern. hogan is all but confirmed as an in.

as disappointingly slow, timid and tentative as toumpas looks, salem's injury gives him an opportunity to cement a spot on half-back flank. howe and dawes - one has to go. mine is a vote for the latter, unfortunately. howe survives by the skin of his teeth, and gets an opportunity to play forward. ro bail is simply not up to it as an afl-level player. stretch ain't ready for afl-level intensity. watts shouldn't be a one week out / straight back in player. jamar / gawn aren't knocking the door down.

the cupboard is bare! i would say bring in neal-bullen but, like stretch, i just refuse to believe he's 'ready' for afl level intensity; it's no surprise that brayshaw and vadenberg are struggling - it's been a tough initiation into afl, just as it is for nearly every new player that we bring in.

IN: riley, newton, jetta

OUT: salem (inj.), dawes, stretch

riley and newton (did the latter even play in the vfl?)...it's deckchairs on the titanic stuff tbh. when mckenzie is one of our consistent vfl-level players we are in big, big trouble.

B: Jetta - Dunn - Garland

HB: Grimes - T. McDonald - Toumpas

C: Lumumba - N. Jones - Vince

HF: vandenBerg - Pedersen - Brayshaw

F: Howe - Hogan - Garlett

Foll: Spencer - Tyson - Cross

I/C: Michie - Riley - M. Jones

Sub: Newton

Emerg: Dawes - Gawn - McKenzie

footscray will run us off our legs - they're quick and hard at the ball. we are in big, big trouble up to the bye - footscray, port and collingwood all have superior kids and seniors.

We've been psychologically destroyed by this terrible draw, playing the best three teams in the league so early and all in a row. This sets us up for failure. What was the AFL thinking?

I've seen a few people post this and I think it's a massive cop out. Some would see it as a challenge, some see it as "too hard" and give up mentally before the games begun.

Guess which group most of our players fall in?

Release the PigDog....!

Roos is just going to ppretend it did not happen. Expect pretty much the same players.

I've seen a few people post this and I think it's a massive cop out. Some would see it as a challenge, some see it as "too hard" and give up mentally before the games begun.

Guess which group most of our players fall in?

It is not a cop out. It is a factor - would mentally weak players (as well as mentally strong ones) not get their confidence up if they had a few weaker teams to play? Of course they would. If players are not at AFL standard, no amount of mental toughness will help. How about us fielding a team of hairy-chested Demonland posters next week. They all would be mentally tough, but I doubt if many could kick a ball 20 metres.

Getting back to the original point, I don't think the AFL was thinking at all when it put us up against 3 top teams in a row. I think they have so many constraints in doing the draw to do with making money, TV etc that the rest of the draw is pot luck. But I would have hoped that one of their constraints would have been to not put a hopefully improving bottom team in such a difficult situation, but apparently it wasn't a priority.

Roos is just going to ppretend it did not happen. Expect pretty much the same players.

Maybe not.

No point in an after match dressing down when emotions are flared.

No point publicly burning the players.

When the dust settles he will tell them.

He let the game run in the last quarter probably to see how players reacted.

Roos had a surprising calm in his PR.

Looked like a man who had stamped the NQR player's cards.

Have to say I've been increasingly frustrated at Roos' press conferences, I want to see more emotion from him. Like a Scotty, or Dimma.

But after thinking about it I realise theres no point in going out there and saying, "Looking we have a crap list, as soon as one of our best is out we're forced to play people who just aren't up to it." At the end of the day those players are going to have to play for him next week, and he knows it.

We still have the 2nd worst percentage in the league, can't score, can hardly defend apart from 2 or 3 players, can't run both ways, can't tackle, can't hit handball targets, can't string together more than 5 possessions, struggle to get inside 50, struggle to get into space, struggle to win games.

Changes? Mate, you could bring in God himself, and even he'd miss a target playing for this rabble.

Roos hasn't impressed me. I think the improvements we've made have been natural evolutions of where the team was, because it was so bad it couldn't possibly get worse.

What scares me is that we can't really hold Roos to account, and instead of coaching for his job, he's coaching for his reputation, which let's be honest will always be remembered for what he did at Sydney.

I'm still holding this club to 8 win expectations this year. If we can't do that, it's going to crash again. Bookmark it. Because Jamar and Cross are going to retire, our depth is shocking. Howe is gone. Our best player is a bloke who barely broke the top 100 in the league. Our young kids are thrown into development black holes. Toumpas will be delisted, which will set us back even further. A waste top 5 pick.

I didn't expect is to beat any of the past three teams we player, but we still played like the worst team in the league, not a team that should be playing finals in 2016.

I could see a turnaround at the start of the year. We're 7 weeks in and now I actually believe the turnaround will never come, that we're destined to be just making up the numbers for another decade.

We still have the 2nd worst percentage in the league, can't score, can hardly defend apart from 2 or 3 players, can't run both ways, can't tackle, can't hit handball targets, can't string together more than 5 possessions, struggle to get inside 50, struggle to get into space, struggle to win games.

Changes? Mate, you could bring in God himself, and even he'd miss a target playing for this rabble.

Roos hasn't impressed me. I think the improvements we've made have been natural evolutions of where the team was, because it was so bad it couldn't possibly get worse.

What scares me is that we can't really hold Roos to account, and instead of coaching for his job, he's coaching for his reputation, which let's be honest will always be remembered for what he did at Sydney.

I'm still holding this club to 8 win expectations this year. If we can't do that, it's going to crash again. Bookmark it. Because Jamar and Cross are going to retire, our depth is shocking. Howe is gone. Our best player is a bloke who barely broke the top 100 in the league. Our young kids are thrown into development black holes. Toumpas will be delisted, which will set us back even further. A waste top 5 pick.

I didn't expect is to beat any of the past three teams we player, but we still played like the worst team in the league, not a team that should be playing finals in 2016.

I could see a turnaround at the start of the year. We're 7 weeks in and now I actually believe the turnaround will never come, that we're destined to be just making up the numbers for another decade.

Well said! This is the reality of the situation. I've said it before and it is now more important than ever the MFC is brought to account for dismal performances. I am a Peter Jackson fan, however this is where you earn your paycheck Peter. Pull together whatever resources you can muster in the football world and get 3 or 4 A grade players onto our list for 2016. Slash cut and burn those players on our list who are obvious duds to all in sundry and do it fast. Peter talks about hope.....there is no hope without recruiting A grade players to this club, because our list is in a shocking state.

We still have the 2nd worst percentage in the league, can't score, can hardly defend apart from 2 or 3 players, can't run both ways, can't tackle, can't hit handball targets, can't string together more than 5 possessions, struggle to get inside 50, struggle to get into space, struggle to win games.

Changes? Mate, you could bring in God himself, and even he'd miss a target playing for this rabble.

Roos hasn't impressed me. I think the improvements we've made have been natural evolutions of where the team was, because it was so bad it couldn't possibly get worse.

What scares me is that we can't really hold Roos to account, and instead of coaching for his job, he's coaching for his reputation, which let's be honest will always be remembered for what he did at Sydney.

I'm still holding this club to 8 win expectations this year. If we can't do that, it's going to crash again. Bookmark it. Because Jamar and Cross are going to retire, our depth is shocking. Howe is gone. Our best player is a bloke who barely broke the top 100 in the league. Our young kids are thrown into development black holes. Toumpas will be delisted, which will set us back even further. A waste top 5 pick.

I didn't expect is to beat any of the past three teams we player, but we still played like the worst team in the league, not a team that should be playing finals in 2016.

I could see a turnaround at the start of the year. We're 7 weeks in and now I actually believe the turnaround will never come, that we're destined to be just making up the numbers for another decade.

What do we do?

B: Jetta Dunn Garland

HB: Grimes T. McDonald Toumpas

C: Lumumba N. Jones Vince

HF: vandenBerg Pedersen Newton

F: Kennedy-Harris Hogan Garlett

Foll: Spencer Tyson Cross

I/C: Viney Michie Brayshaw

Sub: Riley

Emerg: Dawes Gawn M Jones McKenzie

I'm going glass half full and saying Viney and Jetta will come up okay and be fit for selection. JV will bring some BADLY needed aggression around the contest and tackles that aren't the equivalent of enthusiastic hugs.

Taken a deep breath on Toumpas and will give him another week, worrying signs not withstanding. Maybe some cheap ball in the back half will provide something to build upon, but it's not looking good and we may need to move on quickly if he simply isn't up to it.

Howe may keep his spot but it will likely be more of the same. He has one eye on the exit.

Spencer should have a good week against Ayce Cordy. Will finally get to monster someone. But could just as likely swap him for Gawn.

There is a definite deckchair feel to the side at the moment. The excitement after Round 1 seems a long time ago. I expected these three weeks to hit hard, but not quite this hard.

It will be interesting to see if Roosy has the stones to drop Dawes and/or Howe. On current form both would be warranted.

What do we do?

Drink.

Drink.

I do that anyway, never works. Any other suggestions?

We've been psychologically destroyed by this terrible draw, playing the best three teams in the league so early and all in a row. This sets us up for failure. What was the AFL thinking?

afl thinking? oxymoron. ploise ixplayn

Riley in. How did Terlich go at Casey? Does Watts come straight back in? ANB likely to have a few more VFL games unless they want to drop Stretch and give him a go as sub. Although vanders looks stuffed - perhaps sub for him??

Would the AFL ever allow us to cut our playing list by 4 players (say, from 40 to 36) so we could actually throw larger contracts at fewer players, rather than diluting our salary cap across 40 players?

We'd need to delist about 8 more players (not hard) and replace them with 4. Unless we get some kind of concession to help us, I don't see us ever being able to get off the bottom now. It's beyond insulting that GWS are still getting list/draft/salary concessions out the wazoo, but we get zilch.

We still have the 2nd worst percentage in the league, can't score, can hardly defend apart from 2 or 3 players, can't run both ways, can't tackle, can't hit handball targets, can't string together more than 5 possessions, struggle to get inside 50, struggle to get into space, struggle to win games.

Changes? Mate, you could bring in God himself, and even he'd miss a target playing for this rabble.

Roos hasn't impressed me. I think the improvements we've made have been natural evolutions of where the team was, because it was so bad it couldn't possibly get worse.

What scares me is that we can't really hold Roos to account, and instead of coaching for his job, he's coaching for his reputation, which let's be honest will always be remembered for what he did at Sydney.

I'm still holding this club to 8 win expectations this year. If we can't do that, it's going to crash again. Bookmark it. Because Jamar and Cross are going to retire, our depth is shocking. Howe is gone. Our best player is a bloke who barely broke the top 100 in the league. Our young kids are thrown into development black holes. Toumpas will be delisted, which will set us back even further. A waste top 5 pick.

I didn't expect is to beat any of the past three teams we player, but we still played like the worst team in the league, not a team that should be playing finals in 2016.

I could see a turnaround at the start of the year. We're 7 weeks in and now I actually believe the turnaround will never come, that we're destined to be just making up the numbers for another decade.

We have the second worse percentage because we've played Sydney, Fremantle and hawthorn. Has any other team done that?

We can't run and can't defend AGAINST THEM! And when it comes to skills, they break down because of their pressure.

Gee whiz, a bit of perspective wouldn't go astray. We don't have the talent compare to the best. Simple explanation.

Would the AFL ever allow us to cut our playing list by 4 players (say, from 40 to 36) so we could actually throw larger contracts at fewer players, rather than diluting our salary cap across 40 players?

We'd need to delist about 8 more players (not hard) and replace them with 4. Unless we get some kind of concession to help us, I don't see us ever being able to get off the bottom now. It's beyond insulting that GWS are still getting list/draft/salary concessions out the wazoo, but we get zilch.

You want to give the below average group who didn't show up yesterday even more money? Don't think so!

Sorry, I do not buy a membership (and donate on top of it) every year to see more of that money paid to fewer non-performing players, or to any consistently non-performing players.

Would the AFL ever allow us to cut our playing list by 4 players (say, from 40 to 36) so we could actually throw larger contracts at fewer players, rather than diluting our salary cap across 40 players?

We'd need to delist about 8 more players (not hard) and replace them with 4. Unless we get some kind of concession to help us, I don't see us ever being able to get off the bottom now. It's beyond insulting that GWS are still getting list/draft/salary concessions out the wazoo, but we get zilch.

We can increase our rookie list by 2 more and then draft 4 late round/PSD picks.

10 battlers making 200-400k per year out = 3 million.

6 late round/psd/rookie picks at 60k each = 360k

4 spots for 2.6million.

The issue is we can't attract those players. Vince, Dawes, Lumumba the best we've done.

We have to draft and develop and just keep on doing it.