How was Watts' soft, yet hard working B-grade Round 1 game? It was good enough for you I recall.

His issues of the last month, aside from a few highlighted passages, has been form related.

And my point about the preoccupation with Watts, and you are entitled to it - he obviously fascinates you - is that Dees fans are, as Ethan posted earlier, throwing their snarls and vitriol in, seemingly, one direction.

A direction that, as you constantly allude, is such a grand waste of time and internet...

May as well shut this whole place down then. Nothing we discuss on any topic is going to make a difference to anything, so why bother?

You discussing that it's not worth discussing is just adding to the discussion.

Personally I get something out of reading all the points of view. But I've got plenty of time to waste.

How was Watts' soft, yet hard working B-grade Round 1 game? It was good enough for you I recall.

His issues of the last month, aside from a few highlighted passages, has been form related.

And my point about the preoccupation with Watts, and you are entitled to it - he obviously fascinates you - is that Dees fans are, as Ethan posted earlier, throwing their snarls and vitriol in, seemingly, one direction.

A direction that, as you constantly allude, is such a grand waste of time and internet...

He'll have good games against bottom 6 or out of form teams (like Sylvia) but when things get hot he'll ALWAYS go missing. He'll never stand up in tough home and away games let alone finals. If we can get anything half decent for him at the end of the year we should do it, it would be best for both he and the club.

Thought Watts had a better game today than Jones. He attacked the man like I hadn't seen him do before. He laid a couple of great tackles, used his body well a couple of times and hip-and-shouldered opposition players off the contest. There was also one terrific shepherd. That's the base level intensity and physicality that he needs to channel from now on.

The bronx cheering in the third and fourth terms from Melbourne supporters towards Jack today was a disgrace. He annoys me sometimes too, but today he went at the contest and got a bit of the ball as well.

Surely taking the P iss

I think the problem is most posters think Watts' role is a Fyfe or Dangerfield role. His best games have been when the team plays well and delivers the ball well. Today, as a whole, our delivery especially by foot was terrible. I suppose simpletons just need a target and Watts is an easy one.

So his sole job is to wait for the ball to be delivered to him on a silver plater with no pressure?! Crazy.

Surely taking the P iss

No, actually.

Hey Jumbo we know those guys are limited in talent but most of them want to have a go and dare I say would love to be there. Yes they will struggle and fail but you wont die wondering. I don't think we can say the same for Jack, we could all die waiting.

EH, what are waiting for? The big bump? The killer tackle? The collision in mid air?

He is a finisher with great skills who's down on form and confidence.....fmd, he ain't the only one.

And the VFL will do nothing, absolutely nothing to lift this guy...he needs to be coached properly. In fact, I'd argue that this is only his second year of development.

Can't match the intensity against top quality teams......

No appetite for the contest........

Bradshaw typifies what's required & difference between the two is night & day......

I doubt if Watts will ever change & the question is how would he survive under Ross Lyon regime????

Its a reasonable comparison between Watts and Brayshaw. If they went in the same draft and Brayshaw was at 2 we would all be screaming like the Ollie Wines comparison. Brayshaw is everything that Watts is not.

Its time to admit that the Watts pick was a bust.

EH, what are waiting for? The big bump? The killer tackle? The collision in mid air?

He is a finisher with great skills whose down on form and confidence.....fmd, he ain't the only one.

And the VFL will do nothing, absolutely nothing to lift this guy...he needs to be coached properly. In fact, I'd argue that this is only his second year of development.

Yeah, give him another 100 games to teach him....

Brayshaw has played 95 games less and is already a better player and contributor. That speaks volumes.

I once read on a forum (could have been here, could have been Demonology), that Matthew Bate was the worst player ever to reach 100 games for the Dees. Now that Jack has reached that milestone a statistical comparison makes interesting reading.

Jack's 100 games have yielded: kicks- 871, handballs- 695, total disposals-1566, marks- 513, goals- 77, tackles-192, Brownlow votes- 7.

Bate played 102 games for: kicks- 900, handballs- 698, total disposals- 1598, marks-555, goals- 98, tackles- 283, Brownlow votes- 7.

Just sayin'.

Yeah, give him another 100 games to teach him....

Brayshaw has played 95 games less and is already a better player and contributor. That speaks volumes.

Brayshaw has arrived at a stable environ with arguably the best coaching regime available.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say - JW is two years into structured, articulated pathway of development.

But, please don't let your vitriol get in the way of reason..

Spot on. Every year our coaches have tried to find a role for Jack, and he's failed to deliver. He just hasn't got the heart for the contest, which is what AFL football is all about.

Maybe things might have turned out differently for Watts if he went to a state school rather than a snooty private school.

Got a chip on your shoulder about private schools mate? Chris Dawes and Christian Salem also attended that "snooty" school, Brighton Grammar. Got a problem with Salem have you? And Dawes , a premiership player.

To be fair to jack when we get smashed in possession by well over 100 and have far less inside 50s that the opposition it's probably pretty tough going for a forward

Yes, brother, the game moves on, but there are still the troglodytes who want every Melbourne player to play like Grinter.

its not 'grinter' we hope Watts plays like, but 20% of james hird the player, would be nice from jack, but has he the gumption for the contest?????

Im not gonna hold back. Send him back to Casey until he completely bangs the door down.

He was pathetic, insipid and soft. Respect him for what he does off field but its the real stuff he gets judged on and today his confidence is shot.

He has his supportes and good on them but he is a major major disappointment.

yep.

Who comes in for him?

anyone who'll have a bloody full on go... anyone

Bradley was a pea hearted no go in type of player.

But boy o boy,could he get outside the pack and call loud for the hard earned footy,and then use it.

craig bradley was a workhorse & demanded the ball. he was no chicken shyte. he competed all the time, And was damaging off his own efforts. he wouldn't hang back out of play.

EH, what are waiting for? The big bump? The killer tackle? The collision in mid air?

He is a finisher with great skills who's down on form and confidence.....fmd, he ain't the only one.

And the VFL will do nothing, absolutely nothing to lift this guy...he needs to be coached properly. In fact, I'd argue that this is only his second year of development.

no, the effort & the DEE-sire to play a well rounded game... we don't want handbags & handbrakes out there in our jumper.

Brayshaw has arrived at a stable environ with arguably the best coaching regime available.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say - JW is two years into structured, articulated pathway of development.

But, please don't let your vitriol get in the way of reason..

your right Jumbo, but jacks place is to do 'year 2' all over again back at Casey; because he's been seen to have failed it.

you can't go to stage 3, without first achieving level 2 status.

send him back for some rewiring.

McKenzie will do that but do you want him?

if he's the first in line then yes.

anyone who'll not show the guts required to play AFL, should not be there. if they won't contest, get out

anyone who'll have a bloody full on go... anyone

McKenzie will do that but do you want him?

In fact when MFC get rid of him it may send a really good message to the rest of the team and they may respond

If you notice they do not kick it to Jack Either they dont trust him with the ball I doubt this or they are trying to send a message that "Dont make me play with a guy" who refuses to put in.

Next week will be very very interesting.

This notion featured in the Postmatch thread too.

Firstly, did the 'not kicking to Jack' really happen today? But more importantly, is this means of 'sending a message' a real thing? Do players really do this - what do posters think? (footballers please comment; I can't remember it from my distant and inconsequential playing days) If it is happening at AFL level, at Melbourne, that is a real indictment on all the players involved, possibly worse than the "playing for I" Roos referred to in his presser.

ps I usually back him in, time after time, but it's starting to wear very thin. It's just so frustrating watching talent get wasted

Me too, and agree. Very frustrating, but god he cops it from the entire football world...

So you're saying Hogan and Pedo can't mark?

Watts is clunking everything at the moment isn't he?

lol why am I bothering...

No you muppet, I'm saying Dawes and Pedersen can't. Because they can't. Which means we have 3 big, lumbering forwards in a front six, rather than 2. At least Watts has some speed on the ground. We've been complaining all season about being top heavy and the solution from the genius crowd is take a big guy with speed and replace him with a big guy without it, and with even less skill.

No you muppet, I'm saying Dawes and Pedersen can't. Because they can't. Which means we have 3 big, lumbering forwards in a front six, rather than 2. At least Watts has some speed on the ground. We've been complaining all season about being top heavy and the solution from the genius crowd is take a big guy with speed and replace him with a big guy without it, and with even less skill.

Pederson had 8 marks, our 2nd best, with a couple of big grabs.

While your big, skilful, speedy hero had 3, in junk time.

Freo had Sandilands, Clarke, Pav and Tabener... Don't worry about being top heavy, worry about having players that give you something... like 8 marks.

I think we're gonna be stuck with an untradeable commodity in Watts unfortunately. Every time I see Fyfe play and look at Watts game in comparison it just makes me angry. The two aren't that dissimilar height wise. One is competitor and hard worker the other just won't do what it takes to become elite.

No you muppet, I'm saying Dawes and Pedersen can't. Because they can't. Which means we have 3 big, lumbering forwards in a front six, rather than 2. At least Watts has some speed on the ground. We've been complaining all season about being top heavy and the solution from the genius crowd is take a big guy with speed and replace him with a big guy without it, and with even less skill.

Watts is a dud - time to face facts we stuffed a number 1 pick and move on. Hopefully someone will be stupid enough to give us a second round pick for him at the end of the year.

This notion featured in the Postmatch thread too.

Firstly, did the 'not kicking to Jack' really happen today? But more importantly, is this means of 'sending a message' a real thing? Do players really do this - what do posters think? (footballers please comment; I can't remember it from my distant and inconsequential playing days) If it is happening at AFL level, at Melbourne, that is a real indictment on all the players involved, possibly worse than the "playing for I" Roos referred to in his presser.

He's great at leading into congestion, that's why he's ignored.

He's great at leading into congestion, that's why he's ignored.

Actually it's the opposite, he leads to the most dangerous places, dangerous for two reasons, one if he gets it we will score, and then the other if he doesn't they will score. That's why IMO a lot of his leads aren't honoured our players don't one have the confidence to hit hit and two the confidence in him.

Yesterday though he just didn't work, he didn't want the footy to come anywhere near him and I noticed he spent a fair bit of time on the bench

I once read on a forum (could have been here, could have been Demonology), that Matthew Bate was the worst player ever to reach 100 games for the Dees. Now that Jack has reached that milestone a statistical comparison makes interesting reading.

Jack's 100 games have yielded: kicks- 871, handballs- 695, total disposals-1566, marks- 513, goals- 77, tackles-192, Brownlow votes- 7.

Bate played 102 games for: kicks- 900, handballs- 698, total disposals- 1598, marks-555, goals- 98, tackles- 283, Brownlow votes- 7.

Just sayin'.

That is depressing reading.

This notion featured in the Postmatch thread too.

Firstly, did the 'not kicking to Jack' really happen today? But more importantly, is this means of 'sending a message' a real thing? Do players really do this - what do posters think? (footballers please comment; I can't remember it from my distant and inconsequential playing days) If it is happening at AFL level, at Melbourne, that is a real indictment on all the players involved, possibly worse than the "playing for I" Roos referred to in his presser.

Happened when i played at local level.

Sometimes you get a player in the team that does things to put team mates off,And eventually they stop supporting him and definitely stop using his leads.

Not sure if this is happening to JW though.

May as well shut this whole place down then. Nothing we discuss on any topic is going to make a difference to anything, so why bother?

You discussing that it's not worth discussing is just adding to the discussion.

Personally I get something out of reading all the points of view. But I've got plenty of time to waste.

You are entitled to say what you want, DA, as I said in the post. I am simply adding to the discussion. Adding that we are not occupying ourselves with "all the points of view," just the easiest one, and I find it out of line with the attention he deserves.