Footscray v Casey Scorpions - Round 2, 2015

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Grimes will be IN... Toumpas, Riley and Gawn in the mix

Gawn....what game were you watching wayne...he was ordinary, my lady even commented for a guy his size he should be imposing himself on the game at VFL level

Toumpas...no, some really nice things, but still some unforced errors

Matt Jones was Matt Jones

Riley - if we want another 'animal' (said in the nicest way) against Freo, then yes Pig

If Jetta is out, yes I agree Grimes

For those asking about Harmes, think he along with King is the Roos project player, every time I see him he gets better, they are building him slowly, did some good stuff again today

Fitzy is doing ok for somebody who has had his 3rd game in defence, gets better each game

Stretch will be a player

[Macca 16,972]

Macca, I want all our kids to succeed as much as you do.

I'm only getting to know the Toump as a player and today I saw him as a winner of the ball, good in tight, has poise but needs to get better with those cheeky creative possessions. He didn't run run lines today so if we're going like for like he doesn't step in for Kent, at the moment. We'll need a shuffle for next week though, that's why Roosys on the big bucks. Won't be disappointed if Toump is in next week

Fair enough - you answered that well and I wasn't trying to put you on the spot 'rw'

I guess I've just decided to go into bat for him to offset the unrealistic expectations that I see here. I'll say it again but he's only played 19 games and a number of them have been as a sub.

He also played 14 of those games in 2013 when the whole club was in disarray ... we hardly had a decent player that year. He probably should have spent his first year at Casey but instead of that, he was thrown into the fray.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Great quarter by Grimes predominantly on ball. Won plenty of clearances with poise and gave great drive through the center. Terlich giving good run and drive through the corridor as well. Toump strong, has heaps of time at this level but would like to see more run and carry in second half. They'd be my Demon top 3 ATM

I hope they leave de` Toump to get a few weeks of solid form together, before we elevate him again. lets Not throw him in with the Wolverines again.

We have FREO/SWANS/HAWKS/BULLIES/POWER/PIES over the next 6 rounds

I'd like to see experience & body size come into the Demons side at the moment with the tough road ahead. As long as we maintain the speed we had this match gone.

[waynewussell 5,751]

"Gawn....what game were you watching wayne..."

I wasn't watching any game Devil. I thought my comments made it perfectly clear that I was listening to Casey Radio. I'm not going to pick our top three players v Doggies, I'm looking at who we play next round (Read "Sandilands")

[old dee 23,792]

So do we go back to the well where we sort of know what we're going to get or do we take a punt and invest in the future?

I also saw enough promise in Toumpas in his 1st season to warrant giving him an extended opportunity. If he comes in I'd like to see him get 4 games (at least)

Bail & M Jones weren't listed in our best today for Casey and at least Toumpas got his hands on the ball. Again, I'm not saying that he's going to be a top player or even a good player. My argument is for opportunity.

My fear is that if he doesn't break into the seniors soon then what? Coming into their 3rd year, a draftee needs to show the MC something - in the seniors.

These two Remind of a few players last year basically knew they were on the outer and going to play the year at Casey and lost interest early.

Without a lot of injuries it is hard to see them at senior level this year.

Thank guys but yoy are not up to AFL standard IMO.

[old dee 23,792]

"Gawn....what game were you watching wayne..."

I wasn't watching any game Devil. I thought my comments made it perfectly clear that I was listening to Casey Radio. I'm not going to pick our top three players v Doggies, I'm looking at who we play next round (Read "Sandilands")

I have never understood what all the hype is about with Gawn.

So far his senior level career has been the odd good quarter.

At this point he is not AFL standard.

Needs two more years of constant games ( some thing his body has not been up to so far ) at Casey to hopefully develop.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I don't think it's best to bring toump back in against the ultra pressure of Freo. Let him keep plying his trade unless injury means choice is limited. Sounds like Grimes is a given though. You can guarantee he will be hungry and will do everything to stay there.

I agree BRFE re Toumpas, let him stay at Casey for another 4 - 5 weeks getting real belief in himself. let him become something of a driver/leader at Casey.

Maybe Terlich for Jetta, & Grimes for Kent, off the wing, or half forward rolling thru the midfield (didn't want him back so soon, wanted him to really get some solid form & enjoyment back)

-----------------------------

edit:

Footscray Bulldogs 3.4 6.4 13.6 15.7 (97)

Casey Scorpions 0.3 3.8 6.8 10.13 (73)

GOALS:

Footscray Bulldogs: Campbell 4 Redpath 4 Hamilton 2 Russell Kelly Minson Hunter Buchanan

Casey Scorpions: Pedersen 3 Hutchins 2 Harmes Gent Walmsley Morris Toumpas

BEST:

Footscray Bulldogs: Hunter Goodes Prudden Roberts Redpath Campbell

Casey Scorpions: Grimes Smith Pedersen Hutchins Spencer Riley

I think its time Pedersen came in to play the Frost's roles. we're not carrying enough speed in the side to have specialist rucks. Pedersen for a forward role & 2nd ruck spot.

Edited April 26, 2015 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,959]

I have never understood what all the hype is about with Gawn.

So far his senior level career has been the odd good quarter.

At this point he is not AFL standard.

Needs two more years of constant games ( some thing his body has not been up to so far ) at Casey to hopefully develop.

apparently he has shaved his beard according to a poster here. I hope he has read my post about him getting more serious about his game, instead of being content to be the joker/comedian.... Not worried if bearded or not, we need more of a dragon, than a joker.

Lets see much more intensity from Gaaaawn, ortherwise ?????

[MadAsHell 4,212]

I have never understood what all the hype is about with Gawn.

So far his senior level career has been the odd good quarter.

At this point he is not AFL standard.

Needs two more years of constant games ( some thing his body has not been up to so far ) at Casey to hopefully develop.

While the team was a rabble last year it must be said, he did manage to win a VFL B&F with only playing I think it was 6 of 18 games.

He's got huge upside. I agree that it hasn't translated into his AFL career yet.

I'd love it if Gawn had Spencer's determination. Hopefully that will come.

[Wilson7 2,670]

apparently he has shaved his beard according to a poster here. I hope he has read my post about him getting more serious about his game, instead of being content to be the joker/comedian.... Not worried if bearded or not, we need more of a dragon, than a joker.

Lets see much more intensity from Gaaaawn, ortherwise ?????

How do you know how serious he is about his game?, dont think Gawny will be looking for anyones advice but the coaches

[waynewussell 5,751]

I understand the comments about Gawn's limitations... It could be Spencer... I was just thinking horses for courses. I am also a bit of a Pederson fan! I do think there is a possie for another tall against Freo. I'm very happy to see the former skipper in the mix to replace Jetta. replacing Kent is much more difficult, but I suppose Michie could be considered his replacement next week. That would leave us with someone new on the interchange... I'm tipping Tyson will come up

[Rohan 19]

Gawn....what game were you watching wayne...he was ordinary, my lady even commented for a guy his size he should be imposing himself on the game at VFL level

Toumpas...no, some really nice things, but still some unforced errors

Matt Jones was Matt Jones

Riley - if we want another 'animal' (said in the nicest way) against Freo, then yes Pig

If Jetta is out, yes I agree Grimes

For those asking about Harmes, think he along with King is the Roos project player, every time I see him he gets better, they are building him slowly, did some good stuff again today

Fitzy is doing ok for somebody who has had his 3rd game in defence, gets better each game

Stretch will be a player

Pretty much the way I thought it went TDI.

Toump got heaps of it but had plenty of turnovers

Grimes was a class above

Pedo did pretty well considering the delivery into the forward line wasn't great

The team missed too many getable goals, especially with the strong breeze

The bulldogs got lots of soft free kicks

The outer wing of Whitten oval is as cold a place to watch the game as Casey!

[Macca 16,972]

These two Remind of a few players last year basically knew they were on the outer and going to play the year at Casey and lost interest early.

Without a lot of injuries it is hard to see them at senior level this year.

Thank guys but yoy are not up to AFL standard IMO.

There was always going to come a time when we were going to question certain players who might come into the side ... all we needed was the seniors to start winning/looking like a football side. The transitional period we're now in puts pressure on our depth.

The next big step for the club is to have 28-30 AFL standard players on our list. After that, adding 1 or 2 is a difficult assignment. One more draft to get the number up to 24-26 and another draft to get to 28-30.

At least we're finally on our way but we're still going to need a fair slice of luck with draftees. Roos knows this and that's why one of his biggest attributes is identifying players in their early 20's* who can play the game and needing an opportunity. The draft is just one way of bringing talent to the club ... acquiring 2 or 3 top rate free agents wouldn't hurt over the next 2 off-seasons.

In the meantime, we need to cross our fingers that we don't get too many injuries and hope that a few of our depth players are capable of coming in and playing a role. They don't need to be standouts.

*The recruitment of vandenBerg looks to be a stroke of genius (so far )

[Demonland 72,214]

Scorps unable to halt premiers

[Sambo06 222]

Went missing in the second half.... dinky little kicks putting team mates under pressure resulting in turn overs

Went missing in second half because of rotations. Barely got on in third Quarter. Had more time in fourth where he racked up quite a few disposals. Not the cleanest today, but overstated as to how many missed targets. In those conditions, he did well. Starting to build his contested game now. I thought he looked pretty good. Finding a lot more ball.

[Sambo06 222]

I was there and I thought Toumpas was average. Really wanted him to do well, but whenever he gets the ball he just looks like he panics. Quite a few times he handballed it to no one or kicked it into a player and had to follow up. I feel like he has the capability to do well, but at the moment he just has no composure. Seems to get in the right places though. He does have a weird running style though.

I thought Hunter for the dogs was brilliant. They're so clean around the packs and move the ball so well. Gonna be a force in a couple of years.

"quite a few times".....he had 28 in tough conditions quite often in the packs. He stuffed up 4 times. Still had 24 quality touches.

[Pates 9,660]

Sounds like Jetta's replacement is an obvious one. Grimes in after a few solid weeks.

Kents the harder one, he brings pace to the side and tenacity in the forward line.

Toumpas has been ok from the sounds of things but hardly knocking on the door. I really want him to force his way into the side, not be given it through luck and timing. He's hardly shown those attributes I highlighted of Kent. That said who else is there? Matt Jones and Bail? You could argue that it has been Bail's place in the team in recent years, but is he more deserving than Jimmy?

Coming up against a hard team, I think we need hard committed bodies. I think that would be Matt Jones. Probably play him as the sub, Michie got an opportunity to step up and he took it, Jones could do the same.

[Melbournepotter 381]

I was only there for the second half and sat on the main stand side which was a fair way others wereaway from a lot of the action. I didn't see much of a standout performance from anyone, however I could have missed some earlier great play. I thought Grimes did some good things so wouldn't be surprised if he came in. Fitzy did well down back. Took some good marks (outmanoeuvred minson in one contest) and would have won every one on one I saw except for one fickle bounce. Toumpas isn't quite there yet for me. He tries hard, gets the ball, had his head over it on a number of occasions but then tried to get too cute with his disposal and turned it over. The other melbourne players were fairly typical in their performances.

[Pates 9,660]

"quite a few times".....he had 28 in tough conditions quite often in the packs. He stuffed up 4 times. Still had 24 quality touches.

I didn't see the game but were they "effective" touches (that is they completed the journey from player A to player B) or were they actual quality that moved the ball in a positive way?

[Demanding Success 298]

I think it's obvious that we will make at least 2 changes. Hopefully that is it. I like the roos method of as few a changes as possible.

Some of the comments on here about toumpas today in my opinion are too harsh. I not sure who wrote the report about the game but I could guess. He played as solid a game today as any Melb listed player. And some were pretty not up to standard. He had a couple of kicks which were smothered which possibly he could have done better. I think his poise with the ball is improving. A few times today he didnt just go with the first rushed option. He used his agility to get in a better position to deliver. He did make a couple of errors but not horrible ones which cost you a goal. In one play he got the ball deep inside the defensive 50 and had the best poise I've seen of him to deliver a kick to stretch outside the 50. In another he was in the middle of the ground against 4 opponents when they had the ball. He competed to stop an easy mark and then held the ball in in a tackle to get a ball up. They would have run it straight up the middle for a shot at goal. He get an applause from every around me for this. I was with a few mates and we all thought he is a chance for next week.

Riley's second half was excellent. He was the in and under and most of his possessions would have been handballs. He was the best of the mids in my opinion. He had a set shot from just outside 50 in the last which just missed.

I was disappointed with our senior players today. We got level half way through the 2nd quarter with a strong breeze and then gave away about 10 frees to finish the quarter. It was our senior players giving away the frees. Grimes gave away one on the wing and then threw the ball away to give them a 50 as well. I thought the frees were there.

Having said that on grimes he was very solid other than that and one other piece of play were he ran up the middle and gave one of those stupid hospital handballs over the top to a player to get crunched. He could easily have kicked it before running into trouble as we had the breeze and the players down field to kick it to. I'm being picky here because I think it's something he does too much. I think he is a very good chance to play for jetta.

Terlich played the best game I've seen him play for a while. He provided very good run and his disposal was good. He kicked the ball longer than he has in the past and it was working for him.

Gawn had a shocker. He has to stop trying to mark the ball with 1 hand. He did it in nearly every contest. Just stand up, put both arms up and let them worry about you. So frustrating.

I was a pederson fan last year and really thought he would go again this year. He is fitter than I've seen him. He just seems to be in cruise control and not desperate enough.

I liked the way harmes and stretch played. Both seem to be getting it.

Mckenzie went on the Goodes because he was killing it. Slowed him a little but not much.

The 2nd half of the 2nd quarter cost Casey the game today.

This is just my opinion.

[Akum 2,660]

For those who were at the game, what is the prospect of Spencer coming in for Kent to assist Jamar with Sandi & Clarke? Sounds like Spencer was better than Gawn, but was he good enough to compete reasonably against the best in the business?

[M C 221]

For those who were at the game, what is the prospect of Spencer coming in for Kent to assist Jamar with Sandi & Clarke? Sounds like Spencer was better than Gawn, but was he good enough to compete reasonably against the best in the business?

Spence would only be rucking for 10% of the game if he came in

Not sure we could afford to have him fluffing around in the forward line for the rest of the game

[MadAsHell 4,212]

For those who were at the game, what is the prospect of Spencer coming in for Kent to assist Jamar with Sandi & Clarke? Sounds like Spencer was better than Gawn, but was he good enough to compete reasonably against the best in the business?

Spence would only be rucking for 10% of the game if he came in

Not sure we could afford to have him fluffing around in the forward line for the rest of the game

This is why I think Fitzpatrick would be a good one to come into the team.

Can play down back on the resting ruck and when they go into the ruck so does Fitzy. Pretty much play him as a tagger in a way. Frees up Lumumba or Howe to spend more time on a wing.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Just driving back from the game now. .

My stand outs are..

Grimes

Spencer

Matt Jones

Fitzpatrick

Toumpas.

In that order.

Out depth isnt what people think it is...just saying

I agree about the depth.

I was there for the second half and when i arrived i think we were a couple of points behind and about 6 goals each. By the time I left we were 10 and they were 15, but we kicked three goals in the last 5 minutes or so.

Frankly i thought the overall performance was deplorable, with the honorable exceptions of Jack Grimes and Matt Jones (someone about who i am not usually a fan, but he was one of the very few who gave us any sort of run and carry through the middle).

The big disappointments were our talls. I thought Pederson looked slow and didn't hold his marks at least in the second half although i noticed he kicked 2 in the first. Spencer was just ok, had virtually no impact around the ground, and only broke even with Minson at best in the ruck. The big disappointment though was big Max. I am a huge fan of his, and he should be one of our key players as we move toward premiership contention in the next couple of years, but at the moment he is just not getting it. There was a gale blowing down the ground in the last quarter when we had the wind, and max was on someone a good deal shorter than him (most people are), but he simply fails as yet to use his size to any great advantage in marking contests, and in the ruck for that matter. I know he is only young, and these huge guys take until they are 24-25 to mature, but i think he was more effective 2 or 3 years ago, which is a worry. I really hope he makes it because he could be incredibly important to us, but at the moment it is not happening.

The other big disappointment was Jimmy Toumpas. He gets the ball well, but by both hand and foot continually turns it over. In the half i watched i counted he got it nine times, and 8 of those possession went straight to the opposition. He is not ready for a senior recall, much as it pains me to say it.

For mine, the two ins this weekend should be Grimes and Matt Jones, both very good, with both providing great run and carry on Sunday, and both have appeared to have considerably improved their kicking, both for accuracy and length.

The other good point i saw on Sunday is that Fitzy is developing into a formidable tall back. I think personally he may be better than Frost in the long term, but i know many on here will not agree with me.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

My issue with Gawn is he has a lot of the tools, and I always just thought he needed to add bulk and get his fitness up to the required standard. I thought this would happen over time, but I haven't seen any real advance in either of those two areas over the last 2-3 years. It isn't just going to one day click and he can all of a sudden run out 4 quarters at AFL level, he looks absolutely spent after a couple of efforts, and then fails to impose himself physically because he is stuffed.