Mitch at the Cats

[nutbean 8,838]

Ok, you missed the point again.

I'm talking about the physical surroundings, the particular places, not the general environment of an AFL club.

Ill leave it at this.

I absolutely understand what you are saying.

I think that a treatment has been followed with the change of surroundings that is standard practice whilst ignoring the biggest issue.

Time will tell.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

In my circles depression is not looked upon well, it's like playing the soft card or throwing in the towel. A typical response when depression is mentioned if talking about someone is "give him a cup of concrete"

He talked about 'his circles'. What would you know about his circles?

Isn't that enough?

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I'm not sure why we must connect Mitch's depression issues with his ultimate decision.

Like most, I have had people close to me suffer from depression and I wish Mitch all the best on his recovery.

Like most, I struggle with the decisions he made and behaviors around the decision. I am not a mental health professional but I cannot agree with the advice he was given. The number one driver for him leaving being a "fresh start" doesn't sit well with me. I could agree with this logic if our club was the rabble it had been under the likes of CS but the MFC from a "health" perspective has never been in a better place and is moving forward. It could almost be considered a new club. AFL is a pressure cooker and it wont be any easier at Geelong where I believe the pressure to perform will be greater than it may have been at the MFC.

For these reasons I wish Mitch well for his ongoing recovery from his health issues and at the same time say that the decisions you have made surrounding you future will forever be a stain on your reputation.

Good post, I agree substantially - however my position is such that the advice he was given was not only poor with regard to the Geelong move, but the very move of retiring from Melbourne in the first place was also a stinker. As I said at the time - to be howled at by muppets of course - he should have toughed out his issues in a positive way instead of running away from them. I called it and said he would rethink his decision in time, but I had no inkling that he would knife by us going to another club. That is the part of it that is inexecusable regardless of ANY other information surrounding his story or the topic of depression in general.

[rpfc 28,436]

He talked about 'his circles'. What would you know about his circles?

Enough to steer clear ...

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

From what I've heard and read, the "fresh start" approach is a common treatment and is not about the current environment being a bad one, it's about removing yourself from the surroundings you were in when you had depression. So they're not saying it's a matter of saying MFC and it's performances contributing to it, they're saying let's take the person out of the surroundings that hold the memories of that time.

Can't understand how you seemingly sympathise with his condition, and then say his decisions will "stain his reputation".

even if that's a commonly held position, it may be appropriate for your 'average Joe' - in MC's case he was provided a vast amount of financial and emotional support from a great number of people, so the 'change of scenery' approach has a very nasty side effect, which is knifing all these people. Anyone with a brain (and/or soul) would realise that the 'change of scenery' method in this particular case was wildly inappropriate, but obviously MC and/or his advisor(s) felt differently - which is why there has been doubt cast on his entire story and motivations.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Good post, I agree substantially - however my position is such that the advice he was given was not only poor with regard to the Geelong move, but the very move of retiring from Melbourne in the first place was also a stinker. As I said at the time - to be howled at by muppets of course - he should have toughed out his issues in a positive way instead of running away from them. I called it and said he would rethink his decision in time, but I had no inkling that he would knife by us going to another club. That is the part of it that is inexecusable regardless of ANY other information surrounding his story or the topic of depression in general.

Precisely. What's more, the fish bowl that is Geelong, will arc up the heat in the pressure cooker which already exists in any AFL environment.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Enough to steer clear...

Snide remarks like this really are pathetic. If you disagree with the poster's POV why don't you discuss it with him instead of throwing a quick jab and leaving the room.

[pantaloons 2,019]

I always click on this thread with expectation, but leave empty after failing to read that Clark has been savagely mauled by a wild pig or has blown out both ACLs in a freak Segway accident. This thread needs a "Days since a Mitch Clark injury" count in the title so I know whether to enter or not.

[Sir Why You Little 37,042]

Good post, I agree substantially - however my position is such that the advice he was given was not only poor with regard to the Geelong move, but the very move of retiring from Melbourne in the first place was also a stinker. As I said at the time - to be howled at by muppets of course - he should have toughed out his issues in a positive way instead of running away from them. I called it and said he would rethink his decision in time, but I had no inkling that he would knife by us going to another club. That is the part of it that is inexecusable regardless of ANY other information surrounding his story or the topic of depression in general.

Agree 100%

Mitch has spent his whole career "running away" Heard Michael Voss talk about this last year.

Not a person i would trust.

I still believe what my club source told me last year...

[Redleg 40,926]

Not doing much ATM so came up with a conspiracy theory, for fun.

If the Doctor as said on here was a MFC referral and if we had decided for whatever reason, we wanted to trade MC, what if in a casual chat with the Doctor, Roos or someone at the club, suggested that a fresh start would be the best thing for MC. Without discussing his client's actual condition, but bearing in mind that he was referred by us, we would be able to have a general discussion about his future football playing capacity. A few suggestions, such as he had a lot of baggage here, could be enough for the fresh start scenario to have evolved, with that seemingly being the best thing for MC in playing AFL football again. Taking that on board, the Doctor could have agreed that a fresh start was the best for MC. We then traded him when he said he wanted to play again, but needed a fresh start.

Then again, I could have too much time on my hands, BUT, it is not an impossible scenario.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

In my circles depression is not looked upon well, it's like playing the soft card or throwing in the towel. A typical response when depression is mentioned if talking about someone is "give him a cup of concrete"

I think we have all been through hard times and anyone of us could give into it.

Sometimes it can be seen as someone only caring about themselves instead of caring about others.

Let's be honest, Clark going to Geelong is never going to sit well with the majority of Melbourne supporters.

I have clinical depression. Diagnosed by multiple doctors.

The stigma associated with this condition is not helped by people in your "circles" JVF. In fact, it is the very reason I don't tell many people. It makes things very hard, because when I experience a depressive episode and need to miss a social event or can't deliver on a promise for someone, I need to make up a flimsy excuse. I shouldn't have to. My condition, like any other medical condition, is justification enough. But I have to be careful who I tell about it because some will judge me "soft" and tell me to "suck it up".

Honestly, being told your'e soft while in the middle of a low is crushing. I spend considerable time during depressive episodes working on my CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) to prevent it spiralling further out of control. When in this state, any insult, not matter how minor, can be devastating to my CBT and further undermine the self-confidence it's designed to prevent eroding. It's easier to just not tell people than risk a blow like that.

It's hard to explain to people, because from the outside I just look "vacant" or "sad", and an accusation of "soft" doesn't sound that harsh. I assure you, on the inside, it's not that simple.

As for the environment argument, it differs because each person's triggers are different. Some people's environments are destructive, some are supportive. I had a mix of both and had to eliminate one and focus on the other until I had the tools to properly balance my life.

Clinical depression is real. People in your circles make it worse.

Fortunately you seem to be in the minority, judging from other posters here.

Go Dees.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Choke

[rpfc 28,436]

Snide remarks like this really are pathetic. If you disagree with the poster's POV why don't you discuss it with him instead of throwing a quick jab and leaving the room.

If I have left the room - who are you talking to?

And I don't really know what JVF was saying - does he agree with his Neanderthalic mates and their views on depression or is simply relaying what a great deal of people think about the issue?

Frankly, I cannot say what is going in Mitch Clark's head but as someone close to one who suffers from anxiety - I know that it is not a simple issue, and nor one that can be easily defined or dismissed.

And probably one that Land should steer clear of discussing in any depth, lest us reach lower depths...

[old dee 23,792]

Not doing much ATM so came up with a conspiracy theory, for fun.

If the Doctor as said on here was a MFC referral and if we had decided for whatever reason, we wanted to trade MC, what if in a casual chat with the Doctor, Roos or someone at the club, suggested that a fresh start would be the best thing for MC. Without discussing his client's actual condition, but bearing in mind that he was referred by us, we would be able to have a general discussion about his future football playing capacity. A few suggestions, such as he had a lot of baggage here, could be enough for the fresh start scenario to have evolved, with that seemingly being the best thing for MC in playing AFL football again. Taking that on board, the Doctor could have agreed that a fresh start was the best for MC. We then traded him when he said he wanted to play again, but needed a fresh start.

Then again, I could have too much time on my hands, BUT, it is not an impossible scenario.

Yes you do have too much time on your hands however it is a perfectly good conspiracy theory.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

If I have left the room - who are you talking to?

And I don't really know what JVF was saying - does he agree with his Neanderthalic mates and their views on depression or is simply relaying what a great deal of people think about the issue?

Frankly, I cannot say what is going in Mitch Clark's head but as someone close to one who suffers from anxiety - I know that it is not a simple issue, and nor one that can be easily defined or dismissed.

And probably one that Land should steer clear of discussing in any depth, lest us reach lower depths...

Agreed RPFC. However, I think most reasonable people on here would not begin to second guess MC's condition or his road to recovery. To my mind, what is only in question here, is the apparent advice he seems to have received during his illness and recovery. First a "retirement', with a subsequent trade to another club. As I have said on another post, any AFL environment these days carries with it extreme pressure for all involved. My only question is, why would you choose to go to the last bastian of true AFL parochialism in Victoria, which is the town itself - Geelong? A place where the majority of the population rely on the "local' footy club to float its morale, while it's industries close down, leaving many out of work and subject to depression themselves.

A place where solitude, privacy and any form of anonymity is nigh on impossible for a Geelong player. I do not profess to have the first idea of what sort of change of environment would be beneficial, but it just seems to me that Geelong, of all places, would not be ideal in such circumstances.

Edited January 21, 2015 by iv'a worn smith

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

if we had decided for whatever reason, we wanted to trade MC

this keeps coming up but I have seen no poster substantiate what this possible reason could be. It is has been widely agreed, and confirmed by Roos himself, that MC was our best player perhaps bar Nathan Jones. His peak form for us was sensational and I cannot entertain a scenario where we would have WANTED him to leave.

[old dee 23,792]

this keeps coming up but I have seen no poster substantiate what this possible reason could be. It is has been widely agreed, and confirmed by Roos himself, that MC was our best player perhaps bar Nathan Jones. His peak form for us was sensational and I cannot entertain a scenario where we would have WANTED him to leave.

Very confident he was not up to it physically or mentally?

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Very confident he was not up to it physically or mentally?

surely worth the risk though. He is a genuine KPF goalkicker, It is hard to imagine a more required type of player for this football club at the moment.

[old dee 23,792]

surely worth the risk though. He is a genuine KPF goalkicker, It is hard to imagine a more required type of player for this football club at the moment.

I have no idea C and B just suggesting a reason.

[SaberFang 7,151]

this keeps coming up but I have seen no poster substantiate what this possible reason could be. It is has been widely agreed, and confirmed by Roos himself, that MC was our best player perhaps bar Nathan Jones. His peak form for us was sensational and I cannot entertain a scenario where we would have WANTED him to leave.

I've theorised that when Roos realised what Clark and his manager had been doing since his "retirement" (shopping him around to other clubs, using MFC fitness guys to recover with no intention of coming back to the MFC), he instantly became persona non grata. MC transparently used this fact as an excuse to fans asking why he left ("But.. but.. I wasn't wanted!"), despite the fact this was a direct result of his and his manager's actions. I doubt the club had much interest in forcing him to stay after he showed his true colours (not dissimilar to GWS offloading Boyd after his manager pulled that stunt with the Bulldogs).

Plus, as evidenced by yet another calf injury last week, he's not a durable player. Roos likes durable players. Does anyone here actually think MC would come close to completing this year's MFC pre-season?

Roos consistently talking up Mitch as our best player was likely just a strategic ploy to ensure we weren't dudded in a trade. If he'd come out calling MC a snake who betrayed us, etc. other clubs would've offered jack shizen in return.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

MC transparently used this fact as an excuse to fans asking why he left ("But.. but.. I wasn't wanted!"), despite the fact this was a direct result of his and his manager's actions.

Do you know this as fact Lamashtu? Just curious to know who MC actually said this to and where his manager stated as fact that he was unwanted at Melbourne. Is there an interview or article you can link here? I'd genuinely like to know, as all I've ever heard about this has been (at best) speculative hearsay. Cheers

[hardtack 10,537]

Do you know this as fact Lamashtu? Just curious to know who MC actually said this to and where his manager stated as fact that he was unwanted at Melbourne. Is there an interview or article you can link here? I'd genuinely like to know, as all I've ever heard about this has been (at best) speculative hearsay. Cheers

What constitutes "facts" on these forums is often known in other circles as "chinese whispers".

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

What constitutes "facts" on these forums is often known in other circles as "chinese whispers".

That's just conjecture..

[hardtack 10,537]

That's just conjecture..

Yes, but by the time it's done the rounds it will be fact.

[binman 42,980]

As I said at the time - to be howled at by muppets of course - he should have toughed out his issues in a positive way instead of running away from them. I called it and said he would rethink his decision in time, but I had no inkling that he would knife by us going to another club.

I don't understand how you can think that the fact that MC has got himself well enough to recommence an AFL career makes your assertion (bolded above) correct. I would have thought the opposite is true if anything. That's to say there is every chance that if he simply, in true Aussie bloke fashion, tried to 'tough it out' and stayed put his mental health might have got much worse, any other issues in his life might have got worse and he may have ended up quitting (or being fired) and never return to footy.

I am guessing, contrary to your views that he would rethink his decision to retire, that MC and those who care about him most likely think he made exactly the right call.

Supposition of course but he presumably got professional advice that retiring was the best thing he could for his mental health. I very much doubt that outside of forum posters he would have received any advice from trained professional to 'tough it out'. A quick glance at the Beyondblue website linked above would demonstrate that such strategies are likely in fact to make things much worse. Toughing it out is the very reason so many Australian men suffer from depression.

And of course the less said the better about characterizing him retiring from footy to get treatment as running away from his problem (as opposed to actually addressing it which is what he has done).

The fact he has chosen to recommence his career at GFC is completely irrelevant to the any discussion about his choice to retire.

[ManDee 7,151]

I have clinical depression. Diagnosed by multiple doctors.

The stigma associated with this condition is not helped by people in your "circles" JVF. In fact, it is the very reason I don't tell many people. It makes things very hard, because when I experience a depressive episode and need to miss a social event or can't deliver on a promise for someone, I need to make up a flimsy excuse. I shouldn't have to. My condition, like any other medical condition, is justification enough. But I have to be careful who I tell about it because some will judge me "soft" and tell me to "suck it up".

Honestly, being told your'e soft while in the middle of a low is crushing. I spend considerable time during depressive episodes working on my CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) to prevent it spiralling further out of control. When in this state, any insult, not matter how minor, can be devastating to my CBT and further undermine the self-confidence it's designed to prevent eroding. It's easier to just not tell people than risk a blow like that.

It's hard to explain to people, because from the outside I just look "vacant" or "sad", and an accusation of "soft" doesn't sound that harsh. I assure you, on the inside, it's not that simple.

As for the environment argument, it differs because each person's triggers are different. Some people's environments are destructive, some are supportive. I had a mix of both and had to eliminate one and focus on the other until I had the tools to properly balance my life.

Clinical depression is real. People in your circles make it worse.

Fortunately you seem to be in the minority, judging from other posters here.

Go Dees.

All power to you choke, well done.

I have been fortunate to have never suffered from depression, so my understanding is limited. But I applaud you, albeit on a forum to come out.

We non sufferers need to have more compassion.

Although simplistic, depression can be seen like a chronic bad back. Because the problem cannot be easily seen or understood sympathy and understanding is limited.

I hope your battles with depression include more wins than losses. Talking about issues helps all of us to improve.