Strange isn't it. Why would the AFL want to destroy any club let alone one as important to the viability of the competition as EFC. Bizarre.

Similarly its weird how Demitriou allegedly calling Evans to give them a heads up is used by some as evidence the AFL have it in for EFC (as opposed to the more logical conclusion that if true he was wanting to protect them - and course protect the AFL).

what in the world are you up to ??

espousing logic ad hoc....tsk tsk

It's really nothing more that a supposition on my part, upon observations; but funny isnt it how more the bizarre the attitudes and suggestions emanating from any of the accused once the control of the event , or the coverage of the event more the point; was taken away from them.

I was framed I tells ya.

When the evidence is too strong the last play is to claim conspiracy and fabrication.

The reality bus has arrived at Windy Hill. It arrived at the Hird's place but Jimmy has convinced itself that it isn't there for him, Tania is frantically researching the term "reality" and is challenging the legality of the bus' authority to carry passengers.

when neeldy arrived at the hangar they told him "get rid of that bus quickly, there 'aint no reality allowed here, capisce"

so they are taking the rowboat to hell instead

Strange isn't it. Why would the AFL want to destroy any club let alone one as important to the viability of the competition as EFC. Bizarre.

Similarly its weird how Demitriou allegedly calling Evans to give them a heads up is used by some as evidence the AFL have it in for EFC (as opposed to the more logical conclusion that if true he was wanting to protect them - and course protect the AFL).

The game will go on with or without Ess. Time moves on no matter what, no one and nothing is indispensable. We humans have a funny way of adapting and progress just a keeps happening.

when neeldy arrived at the hangar they told him "get rid of that bus quickly, there 'aint no reality allowed here, capisce"

so they are taking the rowboat to hell instead

I want some of Wonky Willy's mushroom chocolate . . and I want it NOW!!

To me, it all still boils down to the fact that a multi-million dollar enterprise doesn't know what was injected into its players over a period of 12 months.

If it was just vitamin C then the records would never have gone missing/lost.

Therefore, the circumstantial evidence points to a guilty verdict.

To me, it all still boils down to the fact that a multi-million dollar enterprise doesn't know what was injected into its players over a period of 12 months.

If it was just vitamin C then the records would never have gone missing/lost.

Therefore, the circumstantial evidence points to a guilty verdict.

I think there is a perfectly logical explanation as to why there are supposedly no records as to what was given to players at Essendon, it is simple - cheating! If you deliberately set about to gain an advantage in a team sport by making your players bigger and stronger by giving them illegal drugs, wouldn't you try and cover it up? Isn't the easiest way of covering it up to simply not record its content? And isn't this likely to have come from the person who sought to gain this advantage in the first place - the coach?

As I understand it a crucial part of ASADA's case is that it has carefully followed the illegal drugs trail, all the way through the local suppliers, the pharmacists and then eventually to ESSENDON. And in quantities which would indicate there was a major program in place over many months and a number of recipients. What it does not have are the records to say what drugs were specifically given to players. This is a total breach of good clinical practice and negligent in itself I would have thought, I suspect enough to have Doc Reid rubbed out by itself.

However, as I understand WADA rules this, together with the evidence from the players involved, is more than enough to convict them for very long sentences, and to put away the perpetrators ie the coaches, for life. Indeed, in a number of the cases WADA have appealed and won, the circumstantial evidence was a lot weaker than it is here, and most of those people received the harshest penalties after WADA appealed them through CAS.

The reasons the local sporting tribunals give light sentences I suspect are because these rules are based on the very least circumstantial evidence, whereas in a court of law you would expect much harder evidence to obtain a conviction. Whilst this may seem harsh to us, being used to British Law as we are, it sometimes takes the power of WADA and CAS to ensure that the WADA rules are enforced in the way they were intended.

This is the reason why I believe the AFL Tribunal will probably give the EFC players backdated 6 months sentences, and this is what the propaganda being peddled recently by Hird's acolytes in the media is based on. They (ESSENDON and Hird) are as usual fooling themselves. It won't wash with WADA, and their obstructionism and obfuscation will result in harsher penalties than they would otherwise have been.

Edited February 6, 201510 yr by Dees2014

I think there is a perfectly logical explanation as to why there are supposedly no records as to what was given to players at Essendon, it is simple - cheating! If you deliberately set about to gain an advantage in a team sport by making your players bigger and stronger by giving them illegal drugs, wouldn't you try and cover it up? Isn't the easiest way of covering it up to simply not record its content? And isn't this likely to have come from the person who sought to gain this advantage in the first place - the coach?

As I understand it a crucial part of ASADA's case is that it has carefully followed the illegal drugs trail, all the way through the local suppliers, the pharmacists and then eventually to ESSENDON. And in quantities which would indicate there was a major program in place over many months and a number of recipients. What it does not have are the records to say what drugs were specifically given to players. This is a total breach of good clinical practice and negligent in itself I would have thought, I suspect enough to have Doc Reid rubbed out by itself.

Agree with this. Have said it before. The detail that clubs go to when collecting data on running, skin folds, diet, injuries etc etc is insane. To not record the drug program is simply not believable.

For a start it cost in the order of $500-700k. Second you would want to know what the effects were. Have the players improved? What are the injury/recovery rates? Is it worth it etc etc

If they didn't collect it they should go for that alone. If they lost it (like Doc Reid's phantom letter) they should go. The circumstantial evidence and trail of ordering the drugs, compounding etc is enough (under the WADA/ASADA rules) to suspend them in any case but in the absence of records it is almost a certainty.

They are cooked.

For a start it cost in the order of $500-700k.

I wonder if there has been any breach of the corporations act. To spend half a mill and to have fake receipts or none at all must be an issue?

Or does this not apply to an AFL team?

If EFC get backdated six month sentences I would puke to think how much they would have received from the AFL if they had have co-operated.

They have shown the AFL up to be a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

Lets hope the public are not the same....

If EFC get backdated six month sentences I would puke to think how much they would have received from the AFL if they had have co-operated.

They have shown the AFL up to be a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

Lets hope the public are not the same....

They should receive discounted sentences because they have cooperated every step along the way and just want the truth to come out

Agree with this. Have said it before. The detail that clubs go to when collecting data on running, skin folds, diet, injuries etc etc is insane. To not record the drug program is simply not believable.

For a start it cost in the order of $500-700k. Second you would want to know what the effects were. Have the players improved? What are the injury/recovery rates? Is it worth it etc etc

If they didn't collect it they should go for that alone. If they lost it (like Doc Reid's phantom letter) they should go. The circumstantial evidence and trail of ordering the drugs, compounding etc is enough (under the WADA/ASADA rules) to suspend them in any case but in the absence of records it is almost a certainty.

They are cooked.

Thanks for that, I wondered how much they would have spent on the drugs. From what I've read ASADA have evidence that TB4 was delivered to Essendon in quantities that would be required to carry out the program admitted to. Essendon's defense is that some other substance was delivered and used but they don't have any evidence to corroborate that.

So the question they get asked is "What did you do with the TB4 drugs delivered?" What ever the answer, how do they expect it to be believed that they flushed or otherwise disposed of $500k.

If I was an Essendon support I'd have difficulty with that cavalier approach to 500k and demanded they were used for the designed purpose.

Seriously, if I were a juror I think I wouldn't have a problem with "beyond a reasonable doubt" who do they think they're fooling except the delusional and the media.

In the words of a great Demonlander "Fork 'em"

Being in the field, I suspect that disposing of a substantial quantity of pharmacologically active ingredients, whether into landfill or the general sewerage system, might well be an offence.

Hope the EPA don't pick up on that.

Unless of course it went the way of biohazardous waste ( a more expensive option of course and one that necessitates a paper trail)

So much paperwork !

They are claiming innocence and acting like cheaters every step of the way, trying to get off on a technicality tells you all you need to know really

This was posted on the other thread about the NAB Challenge but deserves a place here as well -

Rebecca Wilson: Egos of James Hird, Nathan Tinkler and Lance Armstrong causing chaos

Great article.

I wonder if there has been any breach of the corporations act. To spend half a mill and to have fake receipts or none at all must be an issue?

Or does this not apply to an AFL team?

Only if you are trying to claim the expenses against tax or medicare. And as fare as tax I am not sure of Not for profit clubs have to worry about such things.

As for medicare there is already an investigation into Dank claiming unauthorised blood tests and forging a doctors signature allegedly.

They should receive discounted sentences because they have cooperated every step along the way and just want the truth to come out

The very definition of tongue in cheek or taking the p155

The very definition of tongue in cheek or taking the p155

I reckon its Essendon who are taking the pi55 jnr

Being in the field, I suspect that disposing of a substantial quantity of pharmacologically active ingredients, whether into landfill or the general sewerage system, might well be an offence.

Hope the EPA don't pick up on that.

Unless of course it went the way of biohazardous waste ( a more expensive option of course and one that necessitates a paper trail)

So much paperwork !

Sorry Essendon does not do paper work. Because they are better then the rest of us.

If you've got some time on your hands, there's a lot of laughs to be had by reading Bruce Francis' posts on Bombertalk or the Ess board on Bigfooty.

Here's a sample from MarkG, who previously posted copious amounts of drivel on the HUN site before moving to BF and communicating with like-minded shallow end of of the gene pool swimmers:

'You don't think we our supporters can influence the decision. How about getting the AFLPA lawyers to get off their shiny arses and tell us why the AFL is saying 50:50 at best.

How about the club phoning Cornes and asking who from the AFL said 50:50 at best? And then phoning the person at the AFL and asking them why they believe this.

And then phone the AFLPA lawyers and get them to strengthen their case where the AFL person believes the players case is vulnerable.

The players could be suspended for 2 years here. And Robbo stated that the AFL wants a guilty outcome.'

It's going to funny watching the pandemonium when the axe does drop

If you've got some time on your hands, there's a lot of laughs to be had by reading Bruce Francis' posts on Bombertalk or the Ess board on Bigfooty.

Here's a sample from MarkG, who previously posted copious amounts of drivel on the HUN site before moving to BF and communicating with like-minded shallow end of of the gene pool swimmers:

'You don't think we our supporters can influence the decision. How about getting the AFLPA lawyers to get off their shiny arses and tell us why the AFL is saying 50:50 at best. How about the club phoning Cornes and asking who from the AFL said 50:50 at best? And then phoning the person at the AFL and asking them why they believe this. And then phone the AFLPA lawyers and get them to strengthen their case where the AFL person believes the players case is vulnerable. The players could be suspended for 2 years here. And Robbo stated that the AFL wants a guilty outcome.'

That is sad.

Not swimming just drowning. There is a lot to be said for natural selection, I suggest the removal of all warning labels out Essendon way.

I still don't see why the TGA or the medical board can't investigate or deregister him. Surely he has to be licensed by someone to prescribe 16000 injections of hocus pocus.....

He seems to walking the streets without anyone holding him to account. How is that so??

TGA or Medical Board? No, Dank is not a registered medical practitioner although he may be certifiable!

Only if you are trying to claim the expenses against tax or medicare. And as fare as tax I am not sure of Not for profit clubs have to worry about such things.

As for medicare there is already an investigation into Dank claiming unauthorised blood tests and forging a doctors signature allegedly.

Would it not however raise a red flag somewhere. Thats a large amount of money being spent on a program. Id expect that this must occur somewhere in the ledgers even if en-coded.

Would ASADA have had the powers to Forensically investigate EFC's books ? If it was done ex-facto ( sts ) and as a dark op ( of sots) that must only enforce the notion it was something untoward.

You might think though that the ATO having been alerted to some nefarious doings might want to have a close look at the club ?