THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[Wells 11 5,397]

It sickens me that Chris Connolly has effectively been hounded out of football, for telling a recruiting meeting that they would all be sacked if the MFC didn't get the PP.

Whether it was a joke or not, that comment and that comment alone, got CC supended for a year without pay. That has then led to his virtual expulsion from the AFL.

Who did he inject? Whose life did he put at risk? Didn't he cop it on the chin immediately? How many Court challenges did he launch? How many following seasons of AFL football did he stuff up?

Yes it sickens me, that CC is lost to football and the Bombers golden boy swans around blaming the whole world, for a system he was ultimately responsible for, yet at the same time taking no personal responsibility and getting paid like a king, while he does so.

SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

yep so true. The media wasnt on our side or wasnt paid to be or we didnt have key journos that barracked for us. On top of which we didnt have the money to go the legal distance like the bummers.

Its another way the uneveness of the competition expresses itself. From all we've read so far it really does seem that tanking was a bigger sin than performance enhancing drug taking.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

But Robbo has already told us that there are questions of political interference that have never been answered (and which obviously mean the whole case should be thrown out). St James the Pure would never stoop to that sort of level, especially since there wouldn't be much publicity involved.

And never will be answered because they got voted out.

No good asking the current govt. they will be voted out as well.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Pig Dog

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

yep so true. The media wasnt on our side or wasnt paid to be or we didnt have key journos that barracked for us. On top of which we didnt have the money to go the legal distance like the bummers.

Its another way the uneveness of the competition expresses itself. From all we've read so far it really does seem that tanking was a bigger sin than performance enhancing drug taking.

Well all we got was a relatively modest fine and a rescue package that delivered us Roos and money and no doubt some useful players. The Bombers are now well and trully being ground to pulp in the justice mill. I do take my hat off to CS and CC for doing the honourable thing and going quietly for the sake of the club. The Bombers were a powerful and wealthy club, now they are on the skids for being so pig headed and arrogant.

[Cards13 9,117]

The sh it we coped in the media compared to these buggers is just so vastly different and really does bug me. Maybe one of the reasons I am hoping they getting Fing hammered to the wall.

[picket fence 17,142]

_{Really cannot believe how Hird still Still and I say again STILL says "Its about the players"}

_{Wrong James, it is and has always ALWAYS been all about you and your huge ego! Your zero understanding and self righteous justifications now cloud what was, an excellent playing career and is now, perhaps almost forgotten. Whatever you have done in a previous playing life, whatever qualifications you think give you brevity and credibility, whatever "Good Will" you built up with the AFL and others is now eroding into the abyss!}

_{And do you know what James, there is one person to blame for the maelstrom you have put your club through!}

_{Do you know who that is James???}

Edited February 3, 2015 by picket fence

[Whispering_Jack 30,019]

There's one aspect of this which has hardly been aired and that is the fact that the alleged illegality of a joint investigation was first raised by the Essendon/Hird camp in August 2013 at the time of the AFL's governance sanctions against the Bombers.

At the time those sanctions were accepted, albeit grudgingly by the club and all of its personnel with the exception of Doc Reid (the prevailing view is that he fought them to preserve his professional standing).

The Essendon/Hird camp could have gone to court then to seek a ruling on the legality of the joint AFL/ASADA investigation but instead held their fire for ten months while the investigation proceeded, thereby delaying the issue of infraction notices and the ultimate tribunal hearing for several more months.

The whole strategy has been one of delay and obfuscate; a battle of attrition hoping to break ASADA's resolve or force it into committing errors allowing them to gain some relief by stealth.

Four Federal Court judges have unanimously dismissed the notion that the investigation was unlawful. I don't see how it could possibly be in the public interest for an appeal to the High Court to allow the hearing of the claims of anti-doping violations by the players in a properly constituted tribunal and its outcome to be further delayed and placed in doubt for another twelve months which is what would happen if leave to appeal was granted.

#endthefarcenow

[dworship 3,342]

There's one aspect of this which has hardly been aired and that is the fact that the alleged illegality of a joint investigation was first raised by the Essendon/Hird camp in August 2013 at the time of the AFL's governance sanctions against the Bombers.

At the time those sanctions were accepted, albeit grudgingly by the club and all of its personnel with the exception of Doc Reid (the prevailing view is that he fought them to preserve his professional standing).

The Essendon/Hird camp could have gone to court then to seek a ruling on the legality of the joint AFL/ASADA investigation but instead held their fire for ten months while the investigation proceeded, thereby delaying the issue of infraction notices and the ultimate tribunal hearing for several more months.

The whole strategy has been one of delay and obfuscate; a battle of attrition hoping to break ASADA's resolve or force it into committing errors allowing them to gain some relief by stealth.

Four Federal Court judges have unanimously dismissed the notion that the investigation was unlawful. I don't see how it could possibly be in the public interest for an appeal to the High Court to allow the hearing of the claims of anti-doping violations by the players in a properly constituted tribunal and its outcome to be further delayed and placed in doubt for another twelve months which is what would happen if leave to appeal was granted.

#endthefarcenow

I don't know Jack, the strategy has seen the number of players available to play (if there are suspensions) rise significantly. How many does Essendon have unavailable if they are suspended? 18? That's more manageable than 34.

What will be an interesting issue is the length of player suspension (if any) and the ramifications on delistings if it's more than a year.

So, how many of the 18 left have contracts up at the end of the year? What are the obligations of the Club seeing they got the players into this position?

[Dees2014 2,377]

There's one aspect of this which has hardly been aired and that is the fact that the alleged illegality of a joint investigation was first raised by the Essendon/Hird camp in August 2013 at the time of the AFL's governance sanctions against the Bombers.

At the time those sanctions were accepted, albeit grudgingly by the club and all of its personnel with the exception of Doc Reid (the prevailing view is that he fought them to preserve his professional standing).

The Essendon/Hird camp could have gone to court then to seek a ruling on the legality of the joint AFL/ASADA investigation but instead held their fire for ten months while the investigation proceeded, thereby delaying the issue of infraction notices and the ultimate tribunal hearing for several more months.

The whole strategy has been one of delay and obfuscate; a battle of attrition hoping to break ASADA's resolve or force it into committing errors allowing them to gain some relief by stealth.

Four Federal Court judges have unanimously dismissed the notion that the investigation was unlawful. I don't see how it could possibly be in the public interest for an appeal to the High Court to allow the hearing of the claims of anti-doping violations by the players in a properly constituted tribunal and its outcome to be further delayed and placed in doubt for another twelve months which is what would happen if leave to appeal was granted.

#endthefarcenow

ESSENDON have also been sold a "pup" by their PR and legal advisors. All their advice, and the advice to the Hirds, which has seemingly been devised to appeal to James and Tania's sociopathic egos, has been extremely self serving. What surprises me is Little's behaviour in all this, particularly given his extremely successful business career. Anyone who has delt with senior advisors of this sort in corporate life, as I have, always treats this sort of advice with some degree of scepticism, especially when it is so obviously self serving. There seemingly is no nuanced response in this case, and his love for the EFC seems to have has got in the way of his previously ruthless business judgement.

WJ, I'm sure you are as aware as I am, that the PR and Legal communities in Victoria just view ESSENDON and particularly the Hirds as a gift which just keeps on giving. I was in a discussion the other night with a number of barristers who are friends of my lawyer children, and most of the topic discussed was how could they get in on the Hird/ESSENDON millions. There was no discussion on the rights and wrongs of the case: simply the naivety of the "players" and how this might make them rich. This looks very much what has been motivating their current advisors and seems to be reemerging in the discussions about a High Court challenge, one they have no hope of winning, except how it will make the advisors themselves financial winners - again! One wonders when this will ever end.

The problem is that the consequences of this behaviour is that it will almost certainly break Hird, morally and financially, and possibly also send an extremely wealthy club like essendon to the wall. It need not have been so. If they had stuck to the advicers employed under Evans with the AFL's strong support, this would have been over long ago, with Hird removed from the AFL richer, and ESSENDON now preparing for an optimistic 2015 campaign. Instead a cloud now hangs over the AFL and Essendon, and is likely to erupt into Armageddon during the course of this year - all because of the huge egos and distorted personalities of three very flawed people.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Dees2014

[CBDees 3,167]

I don't know Jack, the strategy has seen the number of players available to play (if there are suspensions) rise significantly. How many does Essendon have unavailable if they are suspended? 18? That's more manageable than 34.

What will be an interesting issue is the length of player suspension (if any) and the ramifications on delistings if it's more than a year.

So, how many of the 18 left have contracts up at the end of the year? What are the obligations of the Club seeing they got the players into this position?

I think that you may have hit the nail on the head regarding the delay strategy! It could be easily countered however by the AFL/ASADA ordering them to forfeit x No. matches, in addition to the individual penalties (& ensuring that these are not concurrent)!

[Lucifers Hero 39,737]

ESSENDON have also been sold a "pup" by their PR and legal advisors. All their advice, and the advice to the Hirds, which has seemingly been devised to appeal to James and Tania's sociopathic egos, has been extremely self serving. What surprises me is Little's behaviour in all this, particularly given his extremely successful business career. Anyone who has delt with senior advisors of this sort in corporate life, as I have, always treats this sort of advice with some degree of scepticism, especially when it is so obviously self serving. There seemingly is no nuanced response in this case, and his love for the EFC seems to have has got in the way of his previously ruthless business judgement.

WJ, I'm sure you are as aware as I am, that the PR and Legal communities in Victoria just view ESSENDON and particularly the Hirds as a gift which just keeps on giving. I was in a discussion the other night with a number of barristers who are friends of my lawyer children, and most of the topic discussed was how could they get in on the Hird/ESSENDON millions. There was no discussion on the rights and wrongs of the case: simply the naivety of the "players" and how this might make them rich. This looks very much what has been motivating their current advisors and seems to be reemerging in the discussions about a High Court challenge, one they have no hope of winning, except how it will make the advisors themselves financial winners - again! One wonders when this will ever end.

The problem is that the consequences of this behaviour is that it will almost certainly break Hird, morally and financially, and possibly also send an extremely wealthy club like essendon to the wall. It need not have been so. If they had stuck to the advicers employed under Evans with the AFL's strong support, this would have been over long ago, with Hird removed from the AFL richer, and ESSENDON now preparing for an optimistic 2015 campaign. Instead a cloud now hangs over the AFL and Essendon, and is likely to erupt into Armageddon during the course of this year - all because of the huge egos and distorted personalities of three very flawed people.

And this is a problem - more like poetic justice!

Edited February 3, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[deefrag 277]

ESSENDON have also been sold a "pup" by their PR and legal advisors. All their advice, and the advice to the Hirds, which has seemingly been devised to appeal to James and Tania's sociopathic egos, has been extremely self serving. What surprises me is Little's behaviour in all this, particularly given his extremely successful business career. Anyone who has delt with senior advisors of this sort in corporate life, as I have, always treats this sort of advice with some degree of scepticism, especially when it is so obviously self serving. There seemingly is no nuanced response in this case, and his love for the EFC seems to have has got in the way of his previously ruthless business judgement.

WJ, I'm sure you are as aware as I am, that the PR and Legal communities in Victoria just view ESSENDON and particularly the Hirds as a gift which just keeps on giving. I was in a discussion the other night with a number of barristers who are friends of my lawyer children, and most of the topic discussed was how could they get in on the Hird/ESSENDON millions. There was no discussion on the rights and wrongs of the case: simply the naivety of the "players" and how this might make them rich. This looks very much what has been motivating their current advisors and seems to be reemerging in the discussions about a High Court challenge, one they have no hope of winning, except how it will make the advisors themselves financial winners - again! One wonders when this will ever end.

The problem is that the consequences of this behaviour is that it will almost certainly break Hird, morally and financially, and possibly also send an extremely wealthy club like essendon to the wall. It need not have been so. If they had stuck to the advicers employed under Evans with the AFL's strong support, this would have been over long ago, with Hird removed from the AFL richer, and ESSENDON now preparing for an optimistic 2015 campaign. Instead a cloud now hangs over the AFL and Essendon, and is likely to erupt into Armageddon during the course of this year - all because of the huge egos and distorted personalities of three very flawed people.

ESSENDON have also been sold a "pup" by their PR and legal advisors. All their advice, and the advice to the Hirds, which has seemingly been devised to appeal to James and Tania's sociopathic egos, has been extremely self serving. What surprises me is Little's behaviour in all this, particularly given his extremely successful business career. Anyone who has delt with senior advisors of this sort in corporate life, as I have, always treats this sort of advice with some degree of scepticism, especially when it is so obviously self serving. There seemingly is no nuanced response in this case, and his love for the EFC seems to have has got in the way of his previously ruthless business judgement.

WJ, I'm sure you are as aware as I am, that the PR and Legal communities in Victoria just view ESSENDON and particularly the Hirds as a gift which just keeps on giving. I was in a discussion the other night with a number of barristers who are friends of my lawyer children, and most of the topic discussed was how could they get in on the Hird/ESSENDON millions. There was no discussion on the rights and wrongs of the case: simply the naivety of the "players" and how this might make them rich. This looks very much what has been motivating their current advisors and seems to be reemerging in the discussions about a High Court challenge, one they have no hope of winning, except how it will make the advisors themselves financial winners - again! One wonders when this will ever end.

The problem is that the consequences of this behaviour is that it will almost certainly break Hird, morally and financially, and possibly also send an extremely wealthy club like essendon to the wall. It need not have been so. If they had stuck to the advicers employed under Evans with the AFL's strong support, this would have been over long ago, with Hird removed from the AFL richer, and ESSENDON now preparing for an optimistic 2015 campaign. Instead a cloud now hangs over the AFL and Essendon, and is likely to erupt into Armageddon during the course of this year - all because of the huge egos and distorted personalities of three very flawed people.

My advice to the Legal fraternity is GO FOR IT! Hird and Essendon will never be broke, too many very, VERY wealthy backers who are either dedicated supporters (we all need those!) or fanboys in awe of the "golden boy". Don't be shy, embrace the wealth transfer that's taking place, there will be plenty left to cover player "grievances" and the requisite substantial deposit into Govt coffers. This is the world of the "FU" rich where life is a game and anything with a price (including football clubs) can be bought and enjoyed!

[old dee 23,787]

My advice to the Legal fraternity is GO FOR IT! Hird and Essendon will never be broke, too many very, VERY wealthy backers who are either dedicated supporters (we all need those!) or fanboys in awe of the "golden boy". Don't be shy, embrace the wealth transfer that's taking place, there will be plenty left to cover player "grievances" and the requisite substantial deposit into Govt coffers. This is the world of the "FU" rich where life is a game and anything with a price (including football clubs) can be bought and enjoyed!

A little cynical there deefrag?

[Dees2014 2,377]

My advice to the Legal fraternity is GO FOR IT! Hird and Essendon will never be broke, too many very, VERY wealthy backers who are either dedicated supporters (we all need those!) or fanboys in awe of the "golden boy". Don't be shy, embrace the wealth transfer that's taking place, there will be plenty left to cover player "grievances" and the requisite substantial deposit into Govt coffers. This is the world of the "FU" rich where life is a game and anything with a price (including football clubs) can be bought and enjoyed!

I do not mean necessarily broke in the financial sense, although I think both with Essendon and Hird I think this is a possibility. For the first time in this episode, Hird when discussing going to the High Court, he has said "I need to raise the $100,000 to do it first". He has also recently sold his Toorak house, allegedly to pay for his fight. If he is found guilty by ASADA, in my view likely (I know some on here question this as he hasn't been issued with infraction notices currently - well all I will say is that neither were Armstrong's coaches initially but after he was rubbed out, they also received penalties ranging from 10 years to life), and even rubbed out for 5 years, his ability to earn an income will be severely reduced and my guess is that Essendon will use this as a reason not to pay out his contract, particularly if a new regime takes over there. Then there is Workcover, which is more likely to impose heavy fines (than for instance send directors to jail, although that also is a possibility) both on Essendon and Hird.

Confirmation of penalties either by the AFL Tribunal or CAS will almost certainly be followed by legal action by the players rubbed out (and any coaches and officials affected) against the AFL, Essendon and Hird. These will not only be extremely costly to mount (and Essendon have said they will cover any legal cost of the players, although it is unclear whether this includes legal action against the Club itself), will probably take years to resolve, and could result in overall damages in the tens of millions of dollars. Even Hird and Essendon would struggle with that. At best it would severely weaken the club for decades.

In this I have absolutely no sympathy for either Hird or Essendon. I do have some for the players, even though they all have extensive education about drug taking, but you could imagine a sociopath like Hird making it a "my way or the highway" type stance in this which would make it very difficult to resist.

The downside for the rest of us is that this whole episode will severely damage Aussie Rule football in general, and the AFL in particular, when the challenge coming from Soccer is greater than ever, and lifestyle and technological changes give the young so much more choices than playing and watching sport.

We don't need the Hirds of this world, and the sooner we are rid of them the better.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Dees2014

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

In other news Hird sets up sausage sizzle outside Bunnings to raise funds for his High Court appeal, whilst Tania is checking out the Dandenong property market. Pride is foolish, and damn costly lol!

[old dee 23,787]

There's been very little written or spoken about our forthcoming AGM which takes place on Wednesday 4th February, 2015 (starts 6:30pm) in the Members Dining Room, MCG.

Entry at Gate 2; bring your 2014 membership card.

I see now that Mr. Armstrong has out done himself.

Had his girlfriend say she was driving when he hit parked cars.

Now been found out.

This guy is a very poor example of the human race .

If he told me it was daytime I would go out and check.

Sound like anyone we know?

Edited February 4, 2015 by old dee

[deefrag 277]

In other news Hird sets up sausage sizzle outside Bunnings to raise funds for his High Court appeal, whilst Tania is checking out the Dandenong property market. Pride is foolish, and damn costly lol!

Unconfirmed . . Tawnia seen rummaging thru the specials bin at Dimmey's?

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Unconfirmed.. Jimbo and Tanya seen lining up outside Wantirna Hill club for 2 for 1 steak Tuesdays

[jnrmac 20,058]

I do not mean necessarily broke in the financial sense, although I think both with Essendon and Hird I think this is a possibility. For the first time in this episode, Hird when discussing going to the High Court, he has said "I need to raise the $100,000 to do it first". He has also recently sold his Toorak house, allegedly to pay for his fight.

This was an investment property that Taaaaarnia renovated. Not their family home.....

[M_9 2,082]

I haven't found the time to pore over Bruce Francis's ramblings on Bombertalk as yet. Francis claims to have spent 40 hours interviewing Dank. I find that surprising. When Dank was asked some time ago why he didn't defend the Cronulla players he said he didn't have the time as he had clients he had to serve.

Strange that he found 40 hours for Francis. Given that Francis is house-bound in Tweed Heads, that's a heck of a lot of time to spend on the phone.

Anyway, here's part of Francis's answer to the question 'did he think Dank was 'the genuine article - honest?'

"I don't know enough to make such a judgment. Dank has given very plausible responses to my questions but it is still impossible to make a judgment. For example, prior to speaking to him, I thought as TB-4 helped soft tissue injuries, he must have used it at EFC. I asked him what he used and why. He said Thymomodulin because it boosts the immune system and consequently helps ward off colds, flu and coughs, which are the worst things that can happen to a football team.

And here's me think that a navicular, ACL or sof tissue injuries were the worst things that could happen.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

^^^ if that interview is real then Dank is giving the entire Essendrug fraternity the finger

He cares not what he does if in fact that is his answer.

[binman 42,896]

helps ward off colds, flu and coughs, which are the worst things that can happen to a football team.

And here's me think that a navicular, ACL or sof tissue injuries were the worst things that could happen.

Gold. Perhaps a good thread?

ie What are the worst things that can happen to a football club?

1. Appoint a coach who worked under malthouse as an assistant
2. Move training ground from one that people have a special connection to to one further down the Nepean highway that players hate going to
3. Employ Steven Dank
4. Sack a much loved elder statesman/captain when experience is exactly is what is required
5. Have a webenar called Whiteboard Wednesday
6. Recruit Fev and then give him free reign
7. Other?

Edited February 4, 2015 by binman

[daisycutter 29,613]

7. employ a charismatic, golden haired, relative of god as a coach

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

I cannot believe the MFC had begun working with Dank literally hours before the sh!t hit the fan

He is just a con man with some scientific knowledge

Meanwhile the Bummers still train.

Hello Gill...anyone home??

[M_9 2,082]

...

Meanwhile the Bummers still train.

Hello Gill...anyone home??

I posted the other day that, according to the AFL Anti-doping Code, Provisional Suspension only prohibits players from competing. At least that's how I read it. I know it was mentioned that Saad didn't train, but that may have been self-imposed or imposed by the Saints. Why have him train if he may not be re-signed?

The other point to note is that players Provisionally Suspend themselves ie they need to make that request to the AFL. It is conceivable that many didn't make that request if they were steadfast in their belief that nothing banned was taken. Again, that's the way I read the Code.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

I posted the other day that, according to the AFL Anti-doping Code, Provisional Suspension only prohibits players from competing. At least that's how I read it. I know it was mentioned that Saad didn't train, but that may have been self-imposed or imposed by the Saints. Why have him train if he may not be re-signed?

The other point to note is that players Provisionally Suspend themselves ie they need to make that request to the AFL. It is conceivable that many didn't make that request if they were steadfast in their belief that nothing banned was taken. Again, that's the way I read the Code.

Fair call M, i thought they were banned from training once infraction notices went out.

But that is not the case obviously...